BrainFireBob Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Yo. Have Ablaze, but not the edition of the DeX. Surprise surprise, no Shadowspear entries. They in the revised dex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Depends what you mean. Between the 2 books, the Shadowspear Warlord Traits for Psykers are the only thing not in either. I don't know why they left it out. I don't think anyone does. CSM in 8th edition has been very problematic with rules and editing. Edit: Just looked through Vigilus II and realised Master of Possessions, Greater Possessed, Venom Crawler, and new Obliterators are not in there, nor is the Malefic Discipline. These are all in Codex: CSM [iI]. Again though, the Warlord Traits from Shadowspear are not. Looks like they botched more than I thought, since they said if you already have the CSM Codex, all the new rules are in Vigilus II. At least they got the Table of Contents right this time, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squike Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I feel they don't have a very good quality control department when it comes to the published materials. everything always feels rushed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Yeah, wasnt too happy myself that the renegade warlord traits aren't in the updated dex and that I had to grab vigilus as well to get them in printed form. Harrumph Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Don't think they ever said the rules were on vigilus. New data sheets are 1) in Shadowspear box 2) in V2 chaos codex hardcopy 3) in V2 chaos codex digital (free update) 4) free download from warcom website. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 To be fair, I don't recall them saying specifically the shadowspear units wouldn't be in Vigilus II either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 To be fair, I don't recall them saying specifically the shadowspear units wouldn't be in Vigilus II either. Making a specific news article to inform you of all the units that won't be in Vigilus 2 would take a while. The diagram they produced makes it pretty clear. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/17/pre-order-preview-abaddon-chaos-space-marines-and-more/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 So... Codex: CSM [iI] - All datasheets - All psychic powers - No renegade updates - No specialist detachments Vigilus - Vigilus datasheets - Specialist Detachments - Renegades updates - No psychic powers - No Shadowspear datasheets Shadowspear - Shadowspear Datasheets - New psychic powers - Nothing from Vigilus Is that right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Their chart is faulty. That is a flowchart with two paths and flowcharts have certain expectations. The path on the right (Codex 2.0) should also have a line going back to Vigilus as there are things in Vigilus Ablaze that are not in the 2.0 codex (Renegade Traits and Black Legion updated traits/relics most importantly) with no indicator on the chart that is the case. The chart makes it SEEM like you only need one or the other depending on if you already own the CSM codex, when in fact if you don't already own the Codex and want to run Black Legion or a Renegade Chapter you need both books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Shadowspear datasheets plus the malefic discipline powers are also available via a pdf download from warhammer community. Vigilus also has exclusive access to expanded Black Legion rules (additional warlord traits, relics, stratagems, & strategic objectives), an expansion to the black legion rules from the previous codex. The new version of the codex only has the previous codex's Black Legion stuff, not the expanded content from vigilus. Shadowspear also includes a set of warlord traits specifically for CSM psykers. These are not found anywhere except the shadowspear box, they aren't in the new codex, vigilus, or even the shadowspear pdf download. So, if you want /everything/, then you will need both Vigilus and Shadowspear, as both contain rules not available elsewhere (expanded black legion & renegade rules plus specialist detachments in vigilus, psyker warlord traits in shadowspear). The rest you can get from either version of the chaos space marine codex - old or new doesn't matter here - though if you want the current points values you'll either need the most recent chapter approved or the new edition of the codex. That said, points values will be outdated when the next chapter approved rolls around anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Their chart is faulty. That is a flowchart with two paths and flowcharts have certain expectations. The path on the right (Codex 2.0) should also have a line going back to Vigilus as there are things in Vigilus Ablaze that are not in the 2.0 codex (Renegade Traits and Black Legion updated traits/relics most importantly) with no indicator on the chart that is the case. The chart makes it SEEM like you only need one or the other depending on if you already own the CSM codex, when in fact if you don't already own the Codex and want to run Black Legion or a Renegade Chapter you need both books.The righthand branch is geared towards new Chaos Space Marine players, so it isn't faulty. You don't need Vigilus Ablaze to play either Black Legion or Renegades as both have basic rules suitable to newcomers to Chaos Space Marines in the Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraken Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Their chart is faulty. That is a flowchart with two paths and flowcharts have certain expectations. The path on the right (Codex 2.0) should also have a line going back to Vigilus as there are things in Vigilus Ablaze that are not in the 2.0 codex (Renegade Traits and Black Legion updated traits/relics most importantly) with no indicator on the chart that is the case. The chart makes it SEEM like you only need one or the other depending on if you already own the CSM codex, when in fact if you don't already own the Codex and want to run Black Legion or a Renegade Chapter you need both books.The righthand branch is geared towards new Chaos Space Marine players, so it isn't faulty. You don't need Vigilus Ablaze to play either Black Legion or Renegades as both have basic rules suitable to newcomers to Chaos Space Marines in the Codex. But maybe old players are fed up with infinite book-keeping and would also be interested in the Codex 2.0. And maybe the new players could also be interested in the new Vigilus stuff, if for example they like the new Abaddon and want to play Black Legion, etc None of that can be inferred from the diagram. This flowchart is crap and hide the fact that Vigilus is pretty much a Day-One DLC for the CSM Codex 0.2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 It would have been nice if it was explicitly stated on a chart what was in what. Specialist dettachments being in Vigilus makes sense. Renegade Traits and Black Legion should have been in the Codex, in my opinion. The fact that the FULLS hadowspear rules aren't in either new book os highly irritating. It was mishandled, but we did still get a whole supplement just for Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5289708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Yeah if there are new warlord traits in shadowspear, why are they not in the PDF? Where are the matched play points? I technicaly need the hard copy versions regardless of what the flow chart is saying. Is all that missing stuff from the PDF in the codex re-print? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Forgive my noobness. But where does it say that renegades do not get death to the false emperor? I think I have seen a few times people mention that if you take a renegade detachment, they do not get DTTFE. And I have not seen it in the books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Forgive my noobness. But where does it say that renegades do not get death to the false emperor? I think I have seen a few times people mention that if you take a renegade detachment, they do not get DTTFE. And I have not seen it in the books. They get DTTFE, they don't get Veterans of the Long War; it says that on the stratagem for VOTLW itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Forgive my noobness. But where does it say that renegades do not get death to the false emperor? I think I have seen a few times people mention that if you take a renegade detachment, they do not get DTTFE. And I have not seen it in the books. They get DTTFE, they don't get Veterans of the Long War; it says that on the stratagem for VOTLW itself. *facepalm* thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Was reading trough the new updated codex, and realized that the new Dark apostle can not be given the "Dark mace" And "the cursed crozius" any more, because they dont have a power maul to start with any more. I don't get why they don't fix these things in a "updated" codex..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Was reading trough the new updated codex, and realized that the new Dark apostle can not be given the "Dark mace" And "the cursed crozius" any more, because they dont have a power maul to start with any more. I don't get why they don't fix these things in a "updated" codex..... The first FAQ/Errata after release of the new stuff isn't here yet. Be patient and send feedback to GW per mail. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Was reading trough the new updated codex, and realized that the new Dark apostle can not be given the "Dark mace" And "the cursed crozius" any more, because they dont have a power maul to start with any more. I don't get why they don't fix these things in a "updated" codex..... Because it's a lazy copy/paste job without them actually checking what they are adjusting... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 To be fair, I don't recall them saying specifically the shadowspear units wouldn't be in Vigilus II either. Making a specific news article to inform you of all the units that won't be in Vigilus 2 would take a while. The diagram they produced makes it pretty clear. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/17/pre-order-preview-abaddon-chaos-space-marines-and-more/ Cultists have a change in rules that is not really touched on vigilus ablaze, sure mere mortals is mentioned for black legion and renegades, but unit sizes isnt mentioned nor is mere mortals for any other legion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Was reading trough the new updated codex, and realized that the new Dark apostle can not be given the "Dark mace" And "the cursed crozius" any more, because they dont have a power maul to start with any more. I don't get why they don't fix these things in a "updated" codex..... The first FAQ/Errata after release of the new stuff isn't here yet. Be patient and send feedback to GW per mail. ;) Yeah, but I bought the updated Codex so I wouldn't need all the FAQ pages, at least for a time. They consistently butcher CSM stuff. Again though, at least they got the Table of Contents right this time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Was reading trough the new updated codex, and realized that the new Dark apostle can not be given the "Dark mace" And "the cursed crozius" any more, because they dont have a power maul to start with any more. I don't get why they don't fix these things in a "updated" codex..... I wonder if you can since its wargear that was available in the Index. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 The cursed croxius at least seems like it should be amended to replace a power maul or accursed crozius. It's name probably should have been changed, too, but I wouldn't hold out much hope for that. Lots of open room for wishlisting, actually. Would like to see black legionesque expansions for the other legions (minus the eaters & children, who id rather see pulled out of the book to become their own cult factions). Word bearers in particular have obvious design room opened up by the new apostle rules. One could imagine a warlord trait allowing a word bearers warlord to chant prayers to the dark gods, or an extra prayer per turn if they're already a priest. Maybe a stratagem to change what prayer they know a la the strat we have for psykers. Maybe tome artefacts grantung access to unique prayers. Lots of possibilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Indeed these are things they could have included in this "updated" codex. Yet it seems they only updated it to include new pictures and stories, instead of tackling the real rules. Another thing that really really bugs me, is that the new dark apostle has no wargear options any more. So you can't even legally give him index weapons any more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354977-new-codex-question/#findComment-5290875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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