Smash Lords

[tbone]

It looks like we have Thunder Hammers now, so I'm sawing off my Lightning Claw/Power Fist for something... more... 8th edition.

 

I think I'm going to go with a Red Corsairs Biker Lord with Hammer and the Combi-Melta Relic as a front line support character. 

 

So I've been wondering what kind of combos you all have been cooking up now that we can make our Lords into viable melee characters...instead of just buff bots role they seem to have been playing most of 8th edition.

[olsol]

Its a good combo. But I'd put the intoxicating elixir relic on him, S10 with 5 attacks is insane. As for weapons i would just go for another combi-bolter. with the new bolter drill thats 8 shots at 24"s. 

[Minsc]

A Flawless Host DP /w their Warlord Trait, 2x Talons, Intoxicating Elixir and +1 to hit (from Prescience) averages 17 S8 AP2 D2 attacks against non-imperium units and 20 attacks against imperium-units.

Not a Chaos Lord per se, but he definitely smashes stuff.

 

A The Scourged Biker-Lord /w Thunder Hammer and a Combi-weapon (preferably melta) also looks pretty sweet.
Renegade Trait allows him to re-roll the meltashot (and he still has 6 additional bolter-shots), and a single to-hit roll of "2" in close combat, while his own aura takes care of any 1's. 

Since he technically isn't limted to Mark of Tzeentch, it's possible (but imo unfluffy) to give him Mark of Slaanesh and Intoxicating Elixir.

[Trevak Dal]

That's kinda funny that the red Corsairs can get a Combi melta relic. I'd figure Huron would be like Captain Hook is around clocks around melta weapons.

[Closet Skeleton]

Lords on steed of Slaanesh get 5 attacks base, so with diabolic strength, the intoxicating elixir and the right warlord trait that's 8 S12 attacks. Emperor's Children Lords can get up to 10 attacks.

 

Though a smash lord might also actually be a good use of the World Eaters warlord trait. I'd probably go for a jump lord to threaten flyers but to be honest that trick might be better on an sword daemon prince.

[Brother Aiwass]

A nice smash lord combo that I want to try is from a Brazen Beasts (AP -4 in wound roll of 6+) Raptorial Host detachment. Thunder hammer, jump pack, BB warlord trait (+2 S  & A for each character you kill), BB relic (2+ save, +1  move & A) and a JP sorcerer (field commander) with the Raptorial trait and Diablic Strenght.

Edit:

Black Legion Raptorial smashlords can be way more deadly.

Lord #1 TH, jump pack, (field commander: raptorial trait), relic cloack (+1S, A & Ld when killing a character)
Lord #2 Chainsword, relic chainsword, jump pack, flames of spite
Sorc#1 Jump pack, prescience, diabolic strenght

Suddenly you have 2 bombs that can kill a lot of stuff. Indeed the chainlord can be more killy than the smash lord, dealing mortal wounds on 5+ (2 per hit, one for the trait, one for the relic) with 8 attacks (with diabolic strength).

[N1SB]

Lords on steed of Slaanesh get 5 attacks base, so with diabolic strength, the intoxicating elixir and the right warlord trait that's 8 S12 attacks. Emperor's Children Lords can get up to 10 attacks.

 

Though a smash lord might also actually be a good use of the World Eaters warlord trait. I'd probably go for a jump lord to threaten flyers but to be honest that trick might be better on an sword daemon prince.

 

This topic of the CSM equivalent of a Smash Captain (love the term Smash Lord, will use it) came up in a discussion with a regular tourney winner here.

 

Now I don't recall the exact details, but for theme + gameplay, he pointed out a HQ detachment of 2 Chaos Lords on Steeds of Slaanesh with Thunder Hammers, plus 1 Herald of Slaanesh to buff them (because the Lords have the Daemon keyword technically).

 

I might be wrong about the details, because I was instantly thinking of converting those AoS naga Daughters of Khaine, with the snake bottoms like they're trying to imitate Fulgrim i.e. I was in modeling/painting mode with the idea.  Would be totally sweet.

[Midnightmare]

Say if I were to use a Smash Lord in a Jugger for my Black Legion, how would I go about that. Is it even an option nowadays? Would is actually be a good option?

[Charlo]

Considering the Thunder Hammer is basically the best CC weapon available, yeah!

[ambit]

Blender Prince and Chainlord are the best 2 Ive seen, though Chainlord is better with a Priest.

[Deadass]

I'm currently trying to create a solid terminator-armored Smash Lord for the Black Legion; how does the Foecleaver axe together with the Black-Clad Brute trait sound? Termie Lords will probably always end up being inferior to those in power armor due to their access to THs, but TDA gives me style points.

[Tokugawa]

Finally we received some real weapon on human-form heroes. That is nice.

 

But chaos smash heroes dont work the same way as BA smash captain. With strats of denying OW & swing again and again, BA captain is a hard counter to knight or other superheavy units. Chaos lord could kill infantry faster, but not expert in this special role.

[BolterZorro]

What do you use to build your mini warlord with jumppack and lets say: thunder hammer and combi ?

[Brother Aiwass]

Blender Prince and Chainlord are the best 2 Ive seen, though Chainlord is better with a Priest.

What is this Blender Prince you speak of?

 

I'm currently trying to create a solid terminator-armored Smash Lord for the Black Legion; how does the Foecleaver axe together with the Black-Clad Brute trait sound? Termie Lords will probably always end up being inferior to those in power armor due to their access to THs, but TDA gives me style points.

Wouldn't be better the Axe of Blind Fury?

 

Finally we received some real weapon on human-form heroes. That is nice.

 

But chaos smash heroes dont work the same way as BA smash captain. With strats of denying OW & swing again and again, BA captain is a hard counter to knight or other superheavy units. Chaos lord could kill infantry faster, but not expert in this special role.

But we can, that's why you take 3x5 warp talons, so they can charge and deny OW, plus you can fight twice with the Mark of Khorne and the Khorne strat. The only thing we don't have is the storm shield. But if you are Black Legion, for 1 CP you can have the 4 chaos marks at once for one turn, if the sorc is Tzeentchy, he can cast the +1 inv saves so he can have 3+, and use the Khorne strat to fight again.

[Panzer]

The Hammer Lord is not a real Captain Smash to be fair. What makes the BA Captain so outragiously strong is a combination of relics and Stratagems, not just the Thunderhammer. A Hammer Lord will still be able to deal a lot damage though so that's good!
 

The only thing we don't have is the storm shield. But if you are Black Legion, for 1 CP you can have the 4 chaos marks at once for one turn, if the sorc is Tzeentchy, he can cast the +1 inv saves so he can have 3+, and use the Khorne strat to fight again.

And the D4 hammer, and the charge re-roll on the jump pack, and the 3d6 charge stratagem, and the re-positioning stratagem, and the +1d3 attacks stratagem, and the fight after death stratagem, and the BA trait for +1 to-wound (though we have VotLW so that's that).

Make no mistake, the Hammer Lord is strong and can be buffed a good amount as well but it's no Captain Smash.

[Panzer]

<double post>

[Brother Aiwass]

 

The only thing we don't have is the storm shield. But if you are Black Legion, for 1 CP you can have the 4 chaos marks at once for one turn, if the sorc is Tzeentchy, he can cast the +1 inv saves so he can have 3+, and use the Khorne strat to fight again.

And the D4 hammer, and the charge re-roll on the jump pack, and the 3d6 charge stratagem, and the re-positioning stratagem, and the +1d3 attacks stratagem, and the fight after death stratagem, and the BA trait for +1 to-wound (though we have VotLW so that's that).

 

Make no mistake, the Hammer Lord is strong and can be buffed a good amount as well but it's no Captain Smash.

Obviously isn't the same, but we can get real close. However, the chainlord is by far more powerful than both, chaotic and loyal smash lords, and don't forget that we have warptime.

[Panzer]

 

 

The only thing we don't have is the storm shield. But if you are Black Legion, for 1 CP you can have the 4 chaos marks at once for one turn, if the sorc is Tzeentchy, he can cast the +1 inv saves so he can have 3+, and use the Khorne strat to fight again.

And the D4 hammer, and the charge re-roll on the jump pack, and the 3d6 charge stratagem, and the re-positioning stratagem, and the +1d3 attacks stratagem, and the fight after death stratagem, and the BA trait for +1 to-wound (though we have VotLW so that's that).

 

Make no mistake, the Hammer Lord is strong and can be buffed a good amount as well but it's no Captain Smash.

Obviously isn't the same, but we can get real close. However, the chainlord is by far more powerful than both, chaotic and loyal smash lords, and don't forget that we have warptime.

 

 

What makes the Chainlord that much more powerful?

[Deadass]

I'm currently trying to create a solid terminator-armored Smash Lord for the Black Legion; how does the Foecleaver axe together with the Black-Clad Brute trait sound? Termie Lords will probably always end up being inferior to those in power armor due to their access to THs, but TDA gives me style points.

Wouldn't be better the Axe of Blind Fury?

 

 

Iirc the Axe of Blind Fury is S+2 AP-3 with D3 damage, with hit rolls of 1 hitting friendly models within 1", while Foecleaver is S+3, AP-2 with D3 damage and +1 to hit rolls against Imperials (effectively making the wielder DttFE on a 5+). I think losing AP is worth it considering how many Imperium units are running around nowadays.

[Dumah]

I think the Purge could do a fair job of it as well: jump/bike Lord with Thunder Hammer and Combi-melta, using the Purge Warlord trait can reroll ones to wound and damage rolls, potentially rerolling all misses and adding prescience and/or diabolic strength for good measure. Tankbuster extraordinaire!

[Brother Aiwass]

Host Raptorial Detachment+Field Commander (2 CP)

JP Sorcerer of Tzeentch with Weaver of Fates to give the Lord 3++ and Diabolic Strength (swap Smite for 1 CP if you need Warptime)
JP lord, chainsword and the Black Legion relic chainsword that does MW on 6+

Flames of Spite WT that does MW on 6+

No Chaos Mark
Use the Chosen of the Pantheon when he DS (1 CP), now he has the 4 chaos marks
Cast Weaver of Fates and Diabolic Strength for +1S&A
VoTLW for 1 CP

Now he has 4 attacks base, +2 for the relic, +1 for the chainsword and +1 for the spell, so 8 attacks that hit on 2+, re-rolling 1s  at S5 Ap -3. For every 5+ to wound he does 2 MW (one for the trait, one for the relic) plus the normal damage. Since he is Khorne too, he can fight twice, that's 16 attacks.

[Wayniac]

Chainlord seems interesting but gimmicky.  He requires a lot of pieces (which I guess is similar to the Slamguinius' relic + stratagems) to work properly, including often taking a Host Raptorial and jump sorcerer.  So he would end up costing more than the Slamguinius by virtue of that alone.

[Minsc]

What is this Blender Prince you speak of?

 

 

He's presumably talking about the Flawless Host Blender Prince.

 

With Dual Talons and Intoxicating Elixir he has 8 S8 AP2 D2 attacks.

Flawless Host Renegade Tactic (Death to the Imperfect) is basically the 'Death to the False Emperor'-rule, but against *everything*, and it stacks with DttFE.

Flawless Host Warlord Trait makes Death to the Imperfect give +3 A instead of +1 A. 

 

Now toss him forwards and cast +1 to hit on him (Prescience) and every to-hit roll of 5+ will score 3 additional attacks against non-imperium and 4 additional attacks against imperium. 

On average, he'll get 17 attacks against non-imperium and 20 attacks against imperium-units.

 

You can toss Diabolic Strength on him as well for some more attacks and strength, but against most targets it's overkill. 

[Brother Aiwass]

Chainlord seems interesting but gimmicky.  He requires a lot of pieces (which I guess is similar to the Slamguinius' relic + stratagems) to work properly, including often taking a Host Raptorial and jump sorcerer.  So he would end up costing more than the Slamguinius by virtue of that alone.

Well, you can instead put him in a juggernaut and forget about the detachment, if you put a DA he can do MW on 5+ and an EC, you lose VoTLW  but gain 3 extra attacks from the juggernaut. Anyway, even if it is more expensive than Slamguinius the potential damage is insane.

 

 

What is this Blender Prince you speak of?

 

 

He's presumably talking about the Flawless Host Blender Prince.

 

With Dual Talons and Intoxicating Elixir he has 8 S8 AP2 D2 attacks.

Flawless Host Renegade Tactic (Death to the Imperfect) is basically the 'Death to the False Emperor'-rule, but against *everything*, and it stacks with DttFE.

Flawless Host Warlord Trait makes Death to the Imperfect give +3 A instead of +1 A. 

 

Now toss him forwards and cast +1 to hit on him (Prescience) and every to-hit roll of 5+ will score 3 additional attacks against non-imperium and 4 additional attacks against imperium. 

On average, he'll get 17 attacks against non-imperium and 20 attacks against imperium-units.

 

You can toss Diabolic Strength on him as well for some more attacks and strength, but against most targets it's overkill. 

 

Wow, thanks!, Didn't knew about that one

[Brother Talarian]

Chainlord can also work without any of that setup....

Bring him along with a blob of cultists and charge over when needed...

 

All you need is relic + WLT and Votlw.

Add an apostle for some real dmg. But besides that it’s rather cheap, 93pts and 1CP