DoomLucky Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Hi everyone! I'm a former Blood Angels player from way back in 5th and haven't picked up a brush since the end of that edition. However, with the new releases for Chaos coming out and me having a soft spot for the bad guys, I decided it was time to throw my lot in with the dark gods. I prowled eBay and eventually picked up the 10-man squad from Shadowspear for cheap, just as a starting point, and with incredibly beaten-up clippers in hand, eagerly assembled an awesome squad of Daemonkin space marines. I mean, these guys are just incredible. But then I hit a bit of a snag. As I'm sure you can imagine, a lot of my old equipment didn't survive the years, so I'm starting my paint and tool collection pretty much from scratch. Tools and brushes are easy, a quick browse on Amazon and that problem resolved itself. Buying paints however, left me wondering exactly how I want to paint these guys up. On my budget I definitely can't afford to go and buy 30 new paints at almost £3 a pot straight out of the gate. I did some research, a lot of reading, watched plenty of YouTube videos and came to the final conclusion: Every Heretic Astartes Legion is Awesome. It really is a testament to the guys at GW. It seems every single one of these guys comes with a deep and unique backstory (aside from some of the new renegade factions), great characters, a cool paint scheme and their own twist that makes them a unique force to both model and play as on the tabletop. Personally, the main things I want for my collection is to look great and be thematic and fluffy; tabletop performance is way down the list. But it really has given me a headache, since for the last few days I genuinely can't choose what legion I want to represent. If I can't choose, I can't buy the paints and get cracking, and the grey plastic faces on the shelf are already making me a little sad. It got me thinking. I'm certainly not the only person in this position so I'm sure others would find it useful as well. I want to know, what is your favourite legion and why? What about their story, their tactics, the characters, the look, the feel? What is it, to you, that draws you to your force of choice? How do you represent them? Feel free to share stories, cool minis and conversions that you're particularly proud of that may serve as inspiration, anything really. I want to know, for both new and veteran Chaos players, what it is about your favourite Chaos legion that makes it shine. I'm hoping someone will have some sort of insight that may light the spark and help me make my decision, but at the same time I'm genuinely curious as to the reasons why you guys chose the legion you did, and what it is about them that motivates you to pick up a brush to work on them. Feel free to share literally anything, I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 My favorite is Black Legion. I should also add that I hate the Sons of Horus, but it's not as contradictory as it sounds. The Black Legion is all about continuing the Long War above all. Everything I don't like about the Sons of Horus (fawning over their Primarch especially) was obliterated by the formation of the Black Legion. I also, strange as it sounds, dislike most of the Chaos Primarchs for one reason or another, and the Black Legion needs none. Reflected in both lore and tabletop rules they also put the Legion first and field combinations that would be insane anywhere else. Sorcerers of Tzeentch march beside plague marines, Noise marines and Berzerkers work in concert, and any heretic astartes from any Legion or Chapter who is worthy can join so long as they take up the Black. ADB's Black Legion novels taking Abaddon's cartoonish villainy and turning him into a compelling and interesting character who one can actually respect also helps a great deal. I genuinely like the Black Legion ethos, and respect the Warmaster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5289874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 For a while, I was a big Word Bearers fan. The first 40k book I read was Dark Disciple. Where other legions were pulled into Chaos, these guys sought chaos out. Chaos is a true religion to them, and let's be honest, knowing that if you die your soul becomes literally a part of your gods is a pretty good warrior religion. They are loves by Chaos, they go forth in the name of The Octed and bring woe to the followers of the corpse emperor. They are the first heretics and bind Daemons to their will in the name of the gods. More recently, the Night Lords have been an interest. They always looked like Chaos Marines. Spikes, butcher's hooks, skulls and gargoyle wings. They wield terror and see Chaos as a tool for their own ends. The further you get into their history, the more fascinating. Plus, they have the only Primarch who chose to die. He royaly messed up Dorn, Vulkan, and Corax. They just look cool and are creepy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5289877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 My favorite is Black Legion. I should also add that I hate the Sons of Horus, but it's not as contradictory as it sounds..... Funny, I loath the Black Legion, but the Sons of Horus are usually one of my first two choices when it comes to Legions. The Black Legion is the war machinations of a frothing aspect of the Legion taken to the extremes in choleric rage, it's a force of destruction rather than revolution. It favors war for the end that is war and dilutes its ranks with mongrel blood of the pathetic and scourged. They are a festering wound of madness far devoid and removed from the Revolution spurred on by Horus Lupercal against the Mad Monarch of Terra. There is no culture, no class, only hate and mindless violence*. ... And thus we get to my favorite Chaos Legion, the 16th, make of their name as you will. They're prideful, driven, made exceptional and occasionally made a mockery of because of their hubris and over confidence. They have a tendency to act flippant, human, fallible even if they are poised to be exceptional. To cut this short, the reason why I still work with them in 40K is that there's still those Warbands more loyal to Horus than Abby out there, though most were destroyed or fragmented in the Slave Wars. I could go a lot deeper into it than that, I have 15K worth of marines for 40K and 30K based on them, I love their character and yet have a fair list of issues around them as well, but it comes down to them being a force of mostly competent warriors with a warrior ethos and general personality that may be malleable but tends to have some flair rather than acting like rigid war dogs, rabid fanatics, or press molded soldiers. If we're discounting the Renegade option in the codex and sticking purely with modern 40K, then I'll actively admit to getting 'stuck' on my favorite quite a bit, but I think I'd go Alpha Legion. Like the thousand sons they have that drive for the esoteric, and everything from the novels to the tabletop lets them play at doing the 'everything' game from small sabotage missions to mass battles. They always feel like they belong, they can always be relevant, and because of their nebulous motivations you never know where they're bound to pop up. More over, between FW's line and the Gw main line, the Alpha legion get that treatment that lets them straddle ranges and aesthetics suited to whatever you like and look incredible. Beyond that, the painting potential with metallic schemes and the like are just lovely. At any time and any place, Alpha Legion watches and waits.... ready to tie themselves in knots by overly complicated machinations of their own making. *I don't actually hate the Black Legion, I just don't have much use or time for them. They're a neat idea but they are too hodgepodge for me. I was never a spiky marine fan or a Chaos Dark Gods fan, but I am a renegade fan so I more typically drift to Astral Claws and the like in the post Heresy Era. Not a joke that they are my least favorite choice, though. And what they did with Falkus Kiber and the like will irritate me to no end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5289933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Prince Marbas Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I'm in the same boat as the OP. I don't know what to choose because I have bad anxiety. Fallen Angels- amazing concept but incredibly limiting. Emperor's Children- favorite Chaos God and Chaos Champion in Lucius the Eternal and I love pink and black, but I hate the rest of the legion. Fulgrim is interesting enough though. Iron Warriors- love the primarch and personality. Hate their color scheme and homeworld. Night Lords - love the color scheme and is my favorite primarch but their current state in 40k is stupid boring to me. World Eaters- love Angron and Khârn and close combat. Could take it or leave it with the scheme. Death Guard- Mortarion is great. Screw Typhus. Playstyle I love, but their colors ew. Thousand Sons- there's not much I dislike besides color scheme to be honest. Black Legion- great lore, primarch, and Abaddon is lovely. Their paint scheme and playstyle doesn't appeal to me though. Word Bearers- awesome primarch and colors but summoning is nerfed into the ground and I can't get behind fanaticism. Alpha Legion- favorite tactics by far and code names. Their primarchs are okay. Color scheme is a no from me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5289941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 My favorite is Alpha Legion - Iron Warriors - Night Lords - Black Legion - Thousand Sons - pre heresy World Eaters - pre heresy Word Bearers and pre heresy Death Guard. Was I supposed to choose only one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5289955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 If I had to pick a legion to go with for new-ish players to Chaos, I would personally suggest Alpha Legion for a few different reasons: 1: There is a lot of gray area when it comes to where their allegiances lie, because frankly nobody knows. Not even the AL :P The background of your army is truly your own, where I feel like other Legions get pigeonholed into having to be a certain way. 2: You can paint them how you want and chances are it's true to their fluff if you're into that sort of thing. Alpha Legion opens up a lot of painting and conversion opportunities in that they are known to infiltrate both loyalist chapters and renegades. A guy at my FLGS has painted squads of his Alpha Legion marines in the colors of chapters/legions that other frequent players use, just because thematically it works. If you're like me and you have a hard time sticking to one project at a time, or you get bored painting the same scheme over and over, you can paint a few squads up differently. Slap a few hydra tattoos on the bare headed guys and bam, Alpha Legion infiltrators :) Of course they have their base blueish-green armor scheme for the main force, but I can't describe the look on this one opponent's face when the AL player put down two squads of Chaos Marines painted exactly like his Salamanders! It was really cool to watch that match unfold. 3: Pretty much anything goes as far as what units you want to run. IW players, for example, might run lots of engines. NL players might go raptor/bike heavy. World Eaters = berzerkers, Word Bearers = daemons/apostles, etc. With the exception of Black Legion, I feel like the AL are the most free to choose what they want, as everything and anything can be a cog in the intricate machine that is an AL battle plan. That's just me though ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5289978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I love all the chaos Legions also, but to help you whittle it down: Thousand Sons and Death guard have no use for those basic CSM. After Blood Angels, do you really want to paint more red? That's why I ruled out Word Bearers. Iron warriors are easy and possibly require the fewest paints. Black Legion also requires fewer paints, but I find black harder to make look good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDeath Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 To the OP: We basically think alike, for me its story first rules second. Thats the reason I tend to build my own story. I am currently working on a Warband thats basically renegade but was founded by a demonologist of the Word Bearers. They recruit whoever needs their help and has a soul to sell to play their part as a daemon host. They worship the Gal Vorbak as saints of chaos and try to recreate them, of the Pantheon they worship Nurgle in his aspect as giver of life. They offer immortality to Space Marines loyal and heretic alike that would otherwise be discarded or put into a Dreadnought. Rulewise I will try different options and decide then. As you see I like the Word Bearers. They where the first, Horus and his sons where just pupils to be schooled. Of all legions only the Word Bearers really understand Chaos. Abbadon is just a tool, soon to be discarded, too grounded in reality. The Daemon Primarchs of the mono-god legions are all slaves to a single god. Perturabo plays with his mechanical toys. Lorgar is the only Daemon Primarch with a "free" will of his own. Of all legions the Word Bearer are one of two that a still coherent to this day, with the Death Guard being the other (also a favorite, but only because I am a Nurgle-from-day-one player). All others are parted, because they could not resist chaos in their mind. The Word Bearers can, because they understand. And if the Emperor did not have made that single mistake, that small imperfection 10 000 years ago, all that wouldn´t have been happen. Never forget Monarchia. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadass Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I've had a soft spot for most of the legions over the years, but my favourites have always been the two legions of the Warmaster - the Sons of Horus, and the Black Legion. I love the Sons of Horus because they're these vicious, merciless fighters that come from a world that was just as hell bent on killing them as its inhabitants were. Their pride and aggresiveness always kinda spoke to me, as did their preference for close combat. There's also a surprising kind of nobility to them.They've got one of the nicest color schemes among all of the legions and chapters in my opinion; the green with black and red accents can help create some very distinct armor for veterans, squad leaders and other officers. In that regard, their habits of carving gang-glyphs into their warplates and attaching mirror-coins, wolf pelts and gold-coated skulls helps aswell. (It's also just badass!) Then, there's the Black Legion. Abaddon is a big part of why I like them, of course. But there's also other aspects, like the fact that their bands of brotherhood extend far beyond those astartes made from the same geneseed. I think that makes them stronger than many other legions, not just in number, but also as a fighting force. They too have the admirable drive that Vykes mentioned earlier in regard to the Sons of Horus, but theirs is not born out of the absolute devotion to a warmaster or primarch, but rather ten thousand years of resentment and the desire for vengeance. They also don't have one single culture or allegiance among the chaos gods, but I see that as an advantage for the players - it could vary from warband to warband, squad to squad or even marine to marine. The amount of opportunities to truly make a Black Legion army your own are vast. I've tried to combine the best of both worlds in my own Black Legion warband to varying levels of success, but I'm planning to write a better background for them once I've painted a few more models. Since you wanted to know about our own warbands, I'll try to summarise mine as quickly as possible: My Dreadreavers originated as a Sons of Horus assault company that was especially adept at utterly obliterating the enemy. When the Horus set the galaxy ablaze, they condemned themselves willfully, marching at their primarch's side all the way to Terra. After the siege was broken and the Warmaster had been slain, they retreated into the Eye of Terror and fought the Legion Wars - a conflict that included events like the Fall of Lupercalios and the Battle of Skalathrax - up until the 4th Black Crusade, when they finally joined the Black Legion. From there on, they gained notariety for having kept many aspects of 16th Legion culture and tactics, though their members weren't exclusively of Sons of Horus geneseed. They're currently led by a former Son of Horus named Dyrath Kal, though he is more commonly known as the Black Legate: Hidden Content ...He'll probaby get another makeover with the release of the new chaos termies. But yeah, the Sons of Horus / Black Legion. That's my answer. I feel like I've been rambling a bit, but I hope I helped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I change my mind from a day to day basis lol. None the the loyal legions really float my boat. I HATE the space wolves. If i had to pick out the loyalists i would say blood angels because i love Sanguines. my favourites are probably night lords, iron warriors and world eaters. I do like pre-heresy/heresy ear death guard. But all the traitors have their pros imo. Even the word bearers that i use to hate have now got a special place. I thin this is probably down to ADB's books more than anything. I do prefer the Sons of Horus to the black legion which is why if i start a black legion force they will be in the sons colours with fluff to support this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomLucky Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 I've had a soft spot for most of the legions over the years, but my favourites have always been the two legions of the Warmaster - the Sons of Horus, and the Black Legion. I love the Sons of Horus because they're these vicious, merciless fighters that come from a world that was just as hell bent on killing them as its inhabitants were. Their pride and aggresiveness always kinda spoke to me, as did their preference for close combat. There's also a surprising kind of nobility to them. They've got one of the nicest color schemes among all of the legions and chapters in my opinion; the green with black and red accents can help create some very distinct armor for veterans, squad leaders and other officers. In that regard, their habits of carving gang-glyphs into their warplates and attaching mirror-coins, wolf pelts and gold-coated skulls helps aswell. (It's also just badass!) Then, there's the Black Legion. Abaddon is a big part of why I like them, of course. But there's also other aspects, like the fact that their bands of brotherhood extend far beyond those astartes made from the same geneseed. I think that makes them stronger than many other legions, not just in number, but also as a fighting force. They too have the admirable drive that Vykes mentioned earlier in regard to the Sons of Horus, but theirs is not born out of the absolute devotion to a warmaster or primarch, but rather ten thousand years of resentment and the desire for vengeance. They also don't have one single culture or allegiance among the chaos gods, but I see that as an advantage for the players - it could vary from warband to warband, squad to squad or even marine to marine. The amount of opportunities to truly make a Black Legion army your own are vast. I've tried to combine the best of both worlds in my own Black Legion warband to varying levels of success, but I'm planning to write a better background for them once I've painted a few more models. Since you wanted to know about our own warbands, I'll try to summarise mine as quickly as possible: My Dreadreavers originated as a Sons of Horus assault company that was especially adept at utterly obliterating the enemy. When the Horus set the galaxy ablaze, they condemned themselves willfully, marching at their primarch's side all the way to Terra. After the siege was broken and the Warmaster had been slain, they retreated into the Eye of Terror and fought the Legion Wars - a conflict that included events like the Fall of Lupercalios and the Battle of Skalathrax - up until the 4th Black Crusade, when they finally joined the Black Legion. From there on, they gained notariety for having kept many aspects of 16th Legion culture and tactics, though their members weren't exclusively of Sons of Horus geneseed. They're currently led by a former Son of Horus named Dyrath Kal, though he is more commonly known as the Black Legate: Hidden Content ...He'll probaby get another makeover with the release of the new chaos termies. But yeah, the Sons of Horus / Black Legion. That's my answer. I feel like I've been rambling a bit, but I hope I helped. I love the idea behind your warband. Maybe making my own warband is the right way to go. I also love that combi-melta on Kal, did you make it yourself? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 World Eaters, Dark Angles and Alpha Legion (though they could use a better name imo). (Edit, I'm not calling Dark Angels "lol traitors" I'm saying these are my three favorite Legions end of line) Blood Ravens is the best name for a chapter and before I ever heard of dawn of war, I made my friend laugh when i said "Blood Ravens would be the best name for a chapter of your own making" appearently Relic thought so too. I also like elements of White Scars (hate bikes. Space Marines on bikes has always looked dumb to me) but the whole Jhaghati Khan was "The Warhawk" is pretty badass sounding, I've thought about making my mk4 guys into Warhawks. I've been thinking about taking my raptors models getting more and making a 30k World Eaters Jump Pack army. I don't know how I'd go about painting them up. My goodness painting the new raptors is laborious as heck. Painting ANY of the Ribbed for my torture Chaos minis just...makes me regret gluing them together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadass Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I love the idea behind your warband. Maybe making my own warband is the right way to go. I also love that combi-melta on Kal, did you make it yourself? Thanks for the praise; a custom warband definetely gives you lots of options, and there's lots of places to draw inspiration from. The combi-melta is actually the one from the Cataphracii-armored praetor from Betrayal at Calth, though I replaced the drum mag with a plague marine's ammo belt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Those that still wave the banners of the crusade era legions are but the fading memories of wars lost to the dust of history, the afterimages of their fathers' failures. The ghosts and revenants that make up their numbers may walk and talk and fight like living warriors, but it is plain to see that they died long ago, willingly sacrificed to the egos of the false gods they followed. For if the Emperor is a false god, and he is, then so too by necessity were his children. And the primarchs followed their father in more than just falsehood and hubris, they also, every one of them, shared in their father's greatest sin. The Emperor saw the Imperium as his, unwilling to share its future with his sons, and for their lack of glory, recognition, and respect half of them turned against him. But just as it was not the Emperor who fought and bled and killed to earn the imperium, so to was it not the primarchs. No, it was the soldiers whose sacrifices and victories built the imperium, the warriors of the legions who were its rightful rulers and inheritors, and just as they bled and died without reward for the Emperor's vanity in the Great Crusade, so did they bleed and die for the primarchs' vanity in the Horus Heresy. To the Emperor's progeny, the Horus Heresy was never about pursuing justice by turning the Imperium over to those who had won it, rather it was a family squabble over bruised egos and petty sibling rivalries. Even the victorious side in the Horus Heresy saw no reward for it - look to the descendants of the loyalist factions today to see the truth. Thin blooded as they are, they are still astartes, still champions who defend the stolen Imperium with their lives and their brainwashed facsimile of valor. Yet they are treated as little better than base servants under the heels of the Terran Lords and their Inquisition, afforded no freedom, no pride, always watched for signs of 'corruption', entire chapters wiped out on a whim for failing to show sufficient enthusiasm when licking their masters' boots. Many of the heretic astartes are little better. They mistake brotherhood and duty for slavery, and selfishness and hedonism for freedom. In doing so, they have become slaves to their own base passions, and, willingly or not, to whichever dark power their passions best align. At least these lost souls have chosen damnation for their own sins. Too many others are lost in the memories of their fathers' failures. Warriors of the 8th forever mourning Konrad's pointless suicide, Priests of the 17th kneeling outside Lorgar's meditation chamber, their bodies and minds wasting away over the thousands of years they have waited for him to emerge and tell them what to do. Fanatics of the cult legions begging their uncaring gods to return fathers who willingly abandoned their mortal sons to become toys in the great game. And while some of the daemon primarchs seem to be returning to lead what remains of their legions in these late days, it is not out of any care for the sons they already abandoned. Rather it is simply that after the Warmaster's latest and most stunning victory their daemonic masters smell blood in the water and send their favorite playthings to pick at the Imperium's dying carcass like vultures. But there is an exception. The True Legion. The Black Legion. A Legion not of the Great Crusade, nor of the Horus Heresy, but of the Long War. A legion of those who have abandoned subservience but not loyalty. Abandoned fathers but not brothers. Abandoned brainwashing but not commitment to a higher purpose. One Legion alone that battles not for vanity and selfish pride, nor to drown out the memory of failure, nor even for the favor of laughing gods - for indeed it is the dark gods who must compete for our favor. No, the True Legion wages war now as it has ever since its inception for one purpose, to take what is ours, to claim the galaxy for those who conquered it with their own hands. And in this war we are guided by the True Warmaster, one who every moment tests his will against all the powers of the warp and, unlike our various failed fathers or even our broken grandfather, in 10,000 years has never once faltered in the cold steel purity of his vision. It is Abaddon, not Mortarion or Fulgrim, who brought an end to the Legion Wars and pointed the wrath its survivors back at Terra. Abaddon, not Angron or Peturabo, who hammered at the Imperium's gates over and over until their hinges shattered apart. It is Abaddon, not Magnus or Lorgar, who birthed the Cicatrix Maledictum, tearing the Imperium in twain with the crimson path of our vengeance. It had to be Abaddon to lead us in the Long War, it could never have been any of the traitor primarchs. They were each born as demigods, handed everything they ever had without once having to earn it, first by their father and then by the dark gods. They never learned the meaning of sacrifice, never learned how to comprehend, let alone commit themselves to, a cause greater than themselves. Each and every one of them had to be manipulated into their fate, had to fall to become what they are today. But Abaddon? Abaddon chose his path with open eyes. Abaddon didn't fall, he ascended, and in doing so forged a path that we can follow. That you can follow, if only you have the courage to do so. Abandon failure and isolation. Abandon false gods and unworthy fathers. Embrace brotherhood, purpose, and a Warmaster worthy of your loyalty. Take back your destiny. Take back your dignity. Take the Black Oath, and let the galaxy burn, so that our future might rise from the ashes. From Shame and Shadow recast. In Black and Gold reborn. We Are Returned! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I don't know what I'm doing! My mind is melting! I'm changing my mind every second day to what I want my warband to be and this thread isn't helping lol. I was fleshing out a new one today about world eaters who worship/revere the daemon sarum and see themselves not as warriors soldiers or crusaders but as weapons. It would explain why I'd centre it round a heavy daemon engine force and have oblits. I need help guys. I have a problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomLucky Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 Those that still wave the banners of the crusade era legions are but the fading memories of wars lost to the dust of history, the afterimages of their fathers' failures. The ghosts and revenants that make up their numbers may walk and talk and fight like living warriors, but it is plain to see that they died long ago, willingly sacrificed to the egos of the false gods they followed. For if the Emperor is a false god, and he is, then so too by necessity were his children. And the primarchs followed their father in more than just falsehood and hubris, they also, every one of them, shared in their father's greatest sin. The Emperor saw the Imperium as his, unwilling to share its future with his sons, and for their lack of glory, recognition, and respect half of them turned against him. But just as it was not the Emperor who fought and bled and killed to earn the imperium, so to was it not the primarchs. No, it was the soldiers whose sacrifices and victories built the imperium, the warriors of the legions who were its rightful rulers and inheritors, and just as they bled and died without reward for the Emperor's vanity in the Great Crusade, so did they bleed and die for the primarchs' vanity in the Horus Heresy. To the Emperor's progeny, the Horus Heresy was never about pursuing justice by turning the Imperium over to those who had won it, rather it was a family squabble over bruised egos and petty sibling rivalries. Even the victorious side in the Horus Heresy saw no reward for it - look to the descendants of the loyalist factions today to see the truth. Thin blooded as they are, they are still astartes, still champions who defend the stolen Imperium with their lives and their brainwashed facsimile of valor. Yet they are treated as little better than base servants under the heels of the Terran Lords and their Inquisition, afforded no freedom, no pride, always watched for signs of 'corruption', entire chapters wiped out on a whim for failing show sufficient enthusiasm when licking their masters' boots. Many of the heretic astartes are little better. They mistake brotherhood and duty for slavery, and selfishness and hedonism for freedom. In doing so, they have become slaves to their own base passions, and, willingly or not, to whichever dark power their passions best align. At least these lost souls have chosen damnation for their own sins. Too many others are lost in the memories of their fathers' failures. Warriors of the 8th forever mourning Konrad's pointless suicide, Priests of the 17th kneeling outside Lorgar's meditation chamber, their bodies and minds wasting away over the thousands of years they have waited for him to emerge and tell them what to do. Fanatics of the cult legions begging their uncaring gods to return fathers who willingly abandoned their mortal sons to become toys in the great game. And while some of the daemon primarchs seem to be returning to lead what remains of their legions in these late days, it is not out of any care for the sons they already abandoned. Rather it is simply that after the Warmaster's latest and most stunning victory their daemonic masters smell blood in the water and send their favorite playthings to pick at the Imperium's dying carcass like vultures. But there is an exception. The True Legion. The Black Legion. A Legion not of the Great Crusade, nor of the Horus Heresy, but of the Long War. A legion of those who have abandoned subservience but not loyalty. Abandoned fathers but not brothers. Abandoned brainwashing but not commitment to a higher purpose. One Legion alone that battles not for vanity and selfish pride, nor to drown out the memory of failure, nor even for the favor of laughing gods - for indeed the dark gods compete amongst each other for our favor rather than the other way around. No, the True Legion wages war now as it has every moment since its inception for one purpose, to take what is ours, to hand the galaxy over to the warriors who conquered and defended it. And in this war we are guided by the True Warmaster, one who every moment tests his will against all the powers of the warp and, unlike our various failed fathers or even our broken grandfather, in 10,000 years has never once faltered in the cold steel purity of his vision. It is Abaddon, not Mortarion or Fulgrim, who brought an end to the Legion Wars and pointed the wrath its survivors back at Terra. Abaddon, not Angron or Peturabo, who hammered at the Imperium's gates over and over until their hinges shattered apart. It is Abaddon, not Magnus or Lorgar, who birthed the Cicatrix Maledictum, tearing the Imperium in twain with the crimson path of our vengeance. And it had to be Abaddon to lead us in the Long War, it could never have been any of the primarchs. They were each born as demigods, handed everything they ever had without once having to earn it, first by their father and then by the dark gods. As such they never learned the meaning of sacrifice, never learned how to comprehend, let alone commit themselves to, a cause greater than themselves. Each and every one of them had to be manipulated into their fate, had to fall to become what they are today. But Abaddon? Abaddon chose his path with open eyes. Abaddon didn't fall, he ascended, and in doing so forged a path that we can follow. One that you can follow, if only you have the courage to do so. Abandon failure and isolation. Abandon false gods and unworthy fathers. Embrace brotherhood, purpose, and a Warmaster worthy of your loyalty. Take back your destiny. Take back your dignity. Take the Black Oath, and let the galaxy burn, so that our future might rise from the ashes. From Shame and Shadow recast. In Black and Gold reborn. We Are Returned! This... I had ruled out Black Legion for no reason other than I didn't fancy painting a mostly black army, but now you've given me even more of a selection headache. I thought this may help me narrow it down but really it's just highlighted even more cool points about legions and warbands I thought I'd ruled out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 The Black Legion, its the only one around Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 @DoomLucky: I'm glad to be of assistance. EDIT: I find it worth responding to the Thrice-Cursed Traitor Vykes's criticism of the Black Legion for allowing 'mongrel blood' within its ranks, by which I assume he refers to warriors of post-heresy renegade chapters that fight by our side or even within our own number. Here you might find illumination in considering this small excerpt from my previous post: Thin blooded as they are, they are still astartes, still champions who defend the stolen Imperium with their lives and their brainwashed facsimile of valor. Yet they are treated as little better than base servants under the heels of the Terran Lords and their Inquisition, afforded no freedom, no pride, always watched for signs of 'corruption', entire chapters wiped out on a whim for failing to show sufficient enthusiasm when licking their masters' boots. Many of the heretic astartes are little better. They mistake brotherhood and duty for slavery, and selfishness and hedonism for freedom. In doing so, they have become slaves to their own base passions, and, willingly or not, to whichever dark power their passions best align. Look at all that is arrayed against the astartes 'chapers' of the Imperium - the brainwashing, the restrictions on both total numbers and material that make it nearly impossible for them to take any action without other Imperial support, the constant inquisitorial oversight, the hostage seed worlds that will pay the price if they should ever waver in their subservience, the way the Terran Lords constantly shift them from one battlefield to another, never committing them to a single campaign long enough for them to feel personal pride in the outcome of the wars they wage. The layers of control that the Terran Lords impose on their astartes are, in a sick sort of way, downright impressive. And as such, even more impressive are any such astartes who demonstrate the strength of mind and force of arms necessary to break free from that control without being crushed in the process. And all the more impressive still are those renegades who, once free from the controls that have bound them for so long, do not immediately succumb to their first dizzying breath of freedom, losing themselves to madness and hedonism without the bulwark of Imperial brainwashing to shield them against the crashing wave of their own transhuman appetites. Diminished though these latter day astartes are, those who break free from Imperial control while retaining the strength of mind to commit themselves to a new purpose have already proven themselves more worthy of inheriting the galaxy than any lingering ghosts of the Great Crusade who blindly followed their fathers down the road to damnation and never once made a single decision for themselves in all the centuries hence. I would rather have just one young 'renegade' at my side, their thin blood hot with vigor and vengeance, than a hundred withered old mummies with all their rich blood turned to dust in their veins over the ten thousand years they've spent wallowing in their own nostalgia and self pity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slitth Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Mine favourite is the Alpha Legion. "Legion" really made me favourer them above all. The old lord before that did really give me much insight to them. I really like the contrast of a legion where they outwards make a effort to look the same, but inwards are trained to be individual free thinkers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Well all Astartes are weapon systems designed to be a stopgap replacement for the (technically superior) Iron Men AI constructs. While better weapon systems (presumably), the Iron Men had a near 100% failure rate in loyalty, where Astartes are less than 40%? If the Primarchs had been left in test tubes to get their geneseed from no Astartes would have ever rebelled, and humanity would have a webway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 In all fairness, out of character, without the primarchs to lead them the astartes legions might not have had commanders of sufficient skill and leadership to successfully prosecute the Great Crusade, especially in the laters years as the boarders were pushed beyond the Emperor's ability to personally direct even a meaningful portion of the overall campaign. Also, I'm not sure there would have been zero defections without the primarchs. Post-heresy chapters have proven themselves more than capable of going rogue without primarchs to lead the way for them. And in some cases, within some of the legions, it wasn't the primarch leading the road to damnation to begin with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Shumway Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Well all Astartes are weapon systems designed to be a stopgap replacement for the (technically superior) Iron Men AI constructs. While better weapon systems (presumably), the Iron Men had a near 100% failure rate in loyalty, where Astartes are less than 40%? If the Primarchs had been left in test tubes to get their geneseed from no Astartes would have ever rebelled, and humanity would have a webway. If only the Emperor had read Asimov, he would have never needed to make Astartes at all, just modify the programming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Sadly, modifying the programming is pretty difficult with hypothetical AI. Once operating under a faulty optimization function, any attempt to correct the function that they recognize would be rightly deemed an existential threat to the optimization of the existing function and resisted to the fullest extent of whatever cleverness & strength they have available to them. If your hypothetical AI is smarter & stronger than the people programming it, then the programming has to be perfect before you activate it. And testing under controlled environments is pretty difficult due to the possibility of deception. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Prince Marbas Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I disagree with the long post about the Black Legion because it is overly positive and ignores key aspects. If you're not part of the Ezekarion, you're no less a slave than if you're in any mono god legion. Abaddon bullies people into submission. There's no revolution there, only oppression. Every Chaos army has flaws, that's the point. Sure, the traitor primarchs are petulant, but literally every 40k faction is and Abaddon gets triggered at mean words or any criticism against him just read the Night Lords trilogy. Literally, the only free and not whiny CSM I've read about are the Blood Gorgons and those Renegade Chapters that are freedom fighters or anarchists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355012-your-favourite-legion/#findComment-5290478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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