the emperor is scottish Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I disagree with the long post about the Black Legion because it is overly positive and ignores key aspects. If you're not part of the Ezekarion, you're no less a slave than if you're in any mono god legion. Abaddon bullies people into submission. There's no revolution there, only oppression. Every Chaos army has flaws, that's the point. Sure, the traitor primarchs are petulant, but literally every 40k faction is and Abaddon gets triggered at mean words or any criticism against him just read the Night Lords trilogy. Literally, the only free and not whiny CSM I've read about are the Blood Gorgons and those Renegade Chapters that are freedom fighters or anarchists. I'm actually gutted we've never had ruled for the blood gorgons. Really really cool warband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Well. Renegades covers them technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Man, you guys have really made me rethink how I feel about the Primarchs. I still love them as a concept, but my respect for Abaddon and the various champions has gone way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomLucky Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 Who are the Blood Gorgons? That's one I've never heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadass Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 A renegade chapter that got a single book and had virtually no lore written about them ever since. Apparently there were some legal issues with the novel? I'm not quite sure. The astartes on the cover of our codex is actually a Blood Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I'm going to cast my vote for the Night Lords. Not that they're likable (surely not), but more that they're honest and self-aware to an extent that no other Legion manages. No putting on airs for the sons of the Night Haunter - they never played at the illusion of nobility like the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Well I genuinely like 7.5 of the 10 Traitor Legions (assuming the SoH and BL count as separate entities). Don't really 'like' the WBs, but I do like them as quintessential 'baddies', and they're great for the setting, just not my cup of tea. Their history is a bit whacky though. The pre-Lorgar Iconoclasts FW created are much cooler than the later WBs imo, and the whole idea of the WBs as the 'religious guys' never really fit with the HH series Great Crusade and Imperial Truth. It's one of the more obvious seams in the narrative caused by that change, and never really rung true for me. Can't stand the BL, especially Abby, but that's a whole different rabbit hole. The Thousand Sons are my 'half like'. There's a lot of cool stuff in there, and the 'knowledge seeker finds something better left buried' and 'the road to hell is paved with good inentions' themes to the Legion are pretty cool and very '40k'. What sours me on them is a tad of residual animosity (SWs are my main dudes, after all ), their completely ottp power levels in some stories (like in Inferno, where iirc 50-odd Sons wipe out an entire Knight House with mind bullets, only losing one guy to having a Knight fall on him, and a second gives himself a brain aneurysm from psychic-ing too hard) and the whole 'Magnus did nothing wrong' thing, which just ignore a good chunk of the fall story. As for the 'good ones'. The three other cult Legions are fine, they do what they say on the tin. They all have cool bits of their stories (and the odd mistep), but a lot of their appeal seems to be the God, rather than the Legion itself (especially by 40k time). The Alpha Legion. Some versions of them I really like, other less so. I loved the 'old' AL, before the whole 'I am Alpharius' meme and 'are they really loyalists?' thing. The latecomers that felt they could never get the respect due to them by their peers, despite their skills. Brutally effective soldiers with an axe to grind, and finally the opportunity to prove their supremacy in rebellion and conflict with their former brothers. Night Lords. Who doesn't love the evil space batmen? Unlike the new AL I really dig the different interpretations here, their classic dichotomy of psycho sadist killer vs terror for a higher calling, and the perceived betrayal of them by the Imperium really works for me. Were they always damned? If no, when did they turn a corner? Sahaal or Acerbus? Which was the true son of Curze? All really cool stuff. Iron Warriors. Another excellent Legion. They're almost the iconic 'Chaos Space Marine' to me. The bitter Legion of uncounted meat grinders, fuelled through the millennia by spite, bitterness and the sheer bloody minded refusal to lay down and die. Imperial, Daemon, Xeno or fellow Traitor, all will break before their guns and spite. Plus big guns are cool, they have a great, if simple, colour scheme and possibly the best battlecry of any Legion. Lastly, the SoH. Never gave them much thought until Betrayal. But FW did marvellous things with them. If the IWs are my iconic 'Chaos Marine' the SoH are pretty close to the iconic 'Space Marine' in general. The (mostly) justified swagger and arrogance. Their specialisation in the most 'Space Marine-y' of operations (speartips, decapitation strikes etc.). The veneer of civilisation and nobility plastered over hyper-violent feral recruits (with the amount of 'veneer' obviously depending on the individual). Even the organisation, that managed to be both informal and ad hoc (no Battalions/Chapters, only Companies and Captains under Horus) and yet highly stratified (all the Captains knew where they stood in the pecking order) really got across the idea of a (mostly) meritocratic warrior brotherhood, more concerned with results rather than standard operating procedures, which is what Marines at their best are meant to be imo. Perhaps ironically, they had one of the simplest falls, 'Horus went bad, and took his Legion with him', but then again, that's also a classic for Marines turning. They suffer a bit from having less of a defined 'Chaos identity' than the other 8 Legions (thanks to their transition to the BL), but what they have is solid and they're coming from a really strong starting point. So yeah, looks like either IWs or SoH take the prize . Red Cosairs are also sweet. I find Huron's story incredible and imo he's a far better 'big bad' for Chaos than Abby (I know that's heresy to some here ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I think my favorites are probably Night Lords or Iron Warriors. I really love them all, like you said, but if I had to choose one, it would be Night Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Who are the Blood Gorgons? That's one I've never heard of. They were a renegade chapter that despite their name weren't affiliated with the blood god. They were a piratical war band that were completely fleet based with some stomping grounds they recruited from. Their armour seemed to develop barnacles and other crustation type growths. The cool twist about them was each marine was paired with another who's genetic material were sort of spliced giving them a symbiosis with one another. What one felt the other did and without being telepathically linked could sense the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 The cover of the Chaos Marine codex for the last three editions is a Blood Gorgon; the art was originally used for the cover of their eponymous novel by Henry Zou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomLucky Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 I think my favourite Legions from what I've read are the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and Night Lords, and now to some extent Black Legion. Red Corsairs and Crimson Slaughter also have awesome backstories. Decisions, decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Well all Astartes are weapon systems designed to be a stopgap replacement for the (technically superior) Iron Men AI constructs. While better weapon systems (presumably), the Iron Men had a near 100% failure rate in loyalty, where Astartes are less than 40%? If the Primarchs had been left in test tubes to get their geneseed from no Astartes would have ever rebelled, and humanity would have a webway. If only the Emperor had read Asimov, he would have never needed to make Astartes at all, just modify the programming. Maybe he did, and didn't want to risk psychic robots manipulating probability to influence human behavior. Remember the key take away from the Robot series was that robots were smothering the human spirit and by the end the robot hating people of Earth inherited the stars while the advanced cultures who relied on robots withered away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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