The Iron Tide: Can Mass Marines Work?

[Mordian Glory]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am really enjoying the discussion which is emerging from my madness :D

 

I think there are definitely ways to make the list more competitive, my only concern is if you start stripping out bodies to get better stuff you loose that critical mass. I think the key to making a mass marine army work will be to get that balance right.

 

Imperial Knights are a big issue, but I have fought and won against them with my Black Tide. I have also lost to them of course. When I have battled Knights I have noticed that the Castellan is not too effective against massed marines. The plasma cannon is good but the volcano lance tends to be wasted and the shield breaker turrets are ok, but overall I find it struggles to find an optimum target. The regular knight with the Battle Cannon and Gatling is very good however and is the main threat to mass marines. But the other knights either lack the pure dakka or can be fed one unit at a time. 

 

The thing with knights is nearly all there guns are multiple damage, which is completely wasted vs an army of 1 wound models :)

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I mean knights is a big weakness for massed bolter list. Having lots of shots over high strength this edition definitely wins out, but I think there are limits to that. Massed s4 with no ap is going to struggle to deal with T8 +3 armored, whereas knights could wade into that mass of infantry pretty quickly and start taking them down fairly fast, and the limited number of plasma/heavy weapons in the army isn't really going to cut it. There are some stratagems that help like veterans of the long war ofc, but I don't think that makes up the difference. 

 

I think a massed marine list would benefit by having a little diversity, throw in maybe a few havocs for extra firepower and bikes/raptors for a bit of speed, plus higher concentration of special weapons.  

Put Combi-Plasmas on the characters so that they have access to Daemon Shell at 24 inches and can fire plasma shots otherwise.

 

Thunder Hammers on characters who lurk in the gunline would also be advised. Lots of Psyker support is a plus too. It's always hilarious when a Knight charges, wipes one squad, then gets quickly taken apart by Death Hex, Smite, and a countercharge.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

Greeting Fellow Chaos Scum!

 

I am looking into starting a CSM army, specifically a pure infantry mass marines list!

 

Now I know what many of you are thinking, "Marines a bad this edition! why would you want to spam them!?".Well my little cultists, let me explain the method in my warp induced madness!

 

I have had great success running a Black Tide with my Black Templars, using Crusader Squads which are like tactical marines but you can take scouts and marines mixed together in squads of between 5 and 20. I want to now apply the same principle to CSM, which I think have the potential to take my mass marine idea to the next level.

 

You see, whilst Crusader squads are good they are limited in 2 ways. Firstly at best you can take 10 Marines and 10 Scouts mixed together, which means that you have half your army running only a 4+ save which just isn't good enough. Secondly, they have to take a special and a heavy weapon. On the other hand, CSM squads can also be run in squads of 20, but everyone gets power armour! Also there is a greater degree of flexibility as I can choose to have 2 special weapons, 2 heavy weapons or 1 of each in my Chaos squads.

 

Now I am sure some of you are saying "OK interesting idea, but why not run this as loyalists? They get Captains and Lieutenants to help reroll 1s". Indeed you are correct. However, Chaos have their own tricks for boosting shooting. Chaos Lords are much like Captains, but instead of Lts we can get buffs such as VotLW, Prescience and now Warp-Sight Plea (the new Dark Apostle Prayer). Whilst these dont give us rerolls they do give us something much stronger, +1 to hit and wound modifiers

 

Also in general, our buffs work much better on large units, like 20 man blobs of CSM. We can use Delightful Agonies to give a 5+ FNP save , Iron Within Iron Without to give another blob a 6+ FNP, Prescience, Warp Sighted Plea, Endless Cacophony and VotLW. Also we can use another or the Dark Apostles Prayers, illusory supplication , to give 5+ invulnerable save to all units in 6". 

 

I am thinking that the best way to run this is a Slaanesh Iron Warriros. The IW warlord trait allows me to make my 20 marines blobs fearless. Slaanesh lets me use many key strats and psychic powers mentioned before.

 

So how do I plan to implement this mad plan? I have concocted the list below:

 

Iron Warriors Battalion 1:

HQ:

Chaos Lord: Warlod Trait Cold and Bitter, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Bolter, Power Axe

Dark Apostle: Power Maul, Bolt Pistol, Dark Disciple, Prayer: Warp Sighted Plea 

 

Troops:

20x CSM: 2x Plasma, Champ with Combi Plasma, 17x Bolters  

20x CSM: 2x Plasma, Champ with Combi Plasma, 17x Bolters

20x CSM: 2x Plasma, Champ with Combi Plasma, 17x Bolters

20x CSM: 2x Plasma, Champ with Combi Plasma, 17x Bolters

 

Iron Warriors Battalion 2:

Chaos Lord: Combi Bolter, Power Axe

Sorcerer: Bolt Pistol and Force Sword. Spells: Prescience and Delightful Agonies

 

Troops:

10x CSM: 2x Autocannon, Champ with Combi Plasma, 7x Bolters  

10x CSM: 2x Autocannon, Champ with Combi Plasma, 7x Bolters

10x CSM: 2x Autocannon, Champ with Combi Plasma, 7x Bolters

 

Thats 110 MEQ at 2000pts!. Im thinking of having the Warlord, DA and Sorc together surrounded by 3 of the 20 man blobs. The 4th 20 man blob can either act as a screen against assault units or also go near the warlord. The remaining 10 man squads will set up and create a fire base with the 2nd Lord. 

 

So thats it my fellow Lords! Tell me your thoughts I plan on playing a few practice games to iron out kinks in the list, but I am fairly committed to this project now. I really like the idea of emulating the legions

Hey Mordian I think you are approaching this too much like a loyalist. 

Judging from your Black Templars army Im going to assume you like a balance of shooting/CC.

Here are some options you must consider before committing to the dark gods.

 

1.  Consider using a renegades legion.  Your list idea is not going to get much mileage out of VoTLW since all your units are the same and somewhat tame in terms of concentrated firepower.  In any given turn you only benefit from +1 to wound on 1/7th of your firepower?  Maybe 1/5th if you account for squad size.  Using your current list concept, The Purge seems like a much stronger choice.  That reroll buff is super powerful since it is "reroll hits" NOT "reroll failed hits".  Another great option is the Red Corsairs for 6 extra CP and you can advance + charge and you can use the new tide of traitors on your CSM blobs.  Awesome stuff. 

 

2. Cult troops could be your primary source of pain. Khorne Berzerkers and Possessed can blob up to 20 also.  If you want to be a serious CC threat, these units are terrific.  Vastly better than Black Templars imo. 

 

Dont forget Noise Marines!  These guys blob up to 20 also but 10 is probably better.  They always get to shoot and work well as any legion that can take them.  I think they are best as Red Corsairs because they can advance+shoot+charge.

 

Plague marines in 20 man blobs with a dark apostle giving them the 5+ invuln prayer will be obnoxious to remove.  If you run them as alpha legion, yuck.  

 

3.  The Black Legion is straight up better than Iron Warriors.  Ok that is controversial but the point is that BL has the Boss and he is a terrifying beatstick that grants more and better buffs.  His legion also has some disgusting stratagems such as World Breakers(i think?)  that gives UBER obsec. 

 

4.  Where are your obliterators??  NO daemon prince?? Iron Warriors without oblits or a daemon prince, utter nonsense!  This is about as ridiculous as Imperial Guard without infantry and tanks.  

 

5.  You should also consider a small allied detachment that gives you an edge.  Something like a Khorne daemons patrol with a Skullreaver Prince + 20 bloodletters(345 points).  Think of it as the chaos version of Scions.  This detachment is fairly cheap but hits like a freight train.     

 

Skullreaver Prince is basically "Delete button for whatever I big thing I don't like." Makes Knight players cry, especially when it pops out of the warp as a countercharge after Knights are already committed. Oops. :)

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am really enjoying the discussion which is emerging from my madness

 

I think there are definitely ways to make the list more competitive, my only concern is if you start stripping out bodies to get better stuff you loose that critical mass. I think the key to making a mass marine army work will be to get that balance right.

 

Imperial Knights are a big issue, but I have fought and won against them with my Black Tide. I have also lost to them of course. When I have battled Knights I have noticed that the Castellan is not too effective against massed marines. The plasma cannon is good but the volcano lance tends to be wasted and the shield breaker turrets are ok, but overall I find it struggles to find an optimum target. The regular knight with the Battle Cannon and Gatling is very good however and is the main threat to mass marines. But the other knights either lack the pure dakka or can be fed one unit at a time. 

 

The thing with knights is nearly all there guns are multiple damage, which is completely wasted vs an army of 1 wound models

That is all understandable.  I still think Black Legion, The Purge, and Red Corsairs are better than Iron Warriors with your exact list idea.  

[Lord Asvaldir]

 

I mean knights is a big weakness for massed bolter list. Having lots of shots over high strength this edition definitely wins out, but I think there are limits to that. Massed s4 with no ap is going to struggle to deal with T8 +3 armored, whereas knights could wade into that mass of infantry pretty quickly and start taking them down fairly fast, and the limited number of plasma/heavy weapons in the army isn't really going to cut it. There are some stratagems that help like veterans of the long war ofc, but I don't think that makes up the difference. 

 

I think a massed marine list would benefit by having a little diversity, throw in maybe a few havocs for extra firepower and bikes/raptors for a bit of speed, plus higher concentration of special weapons.  

Put Combi-Plasmas on the characters so that they have access to Daemon Shell at 24 inches and can fire plasma shots otherwise.

 

Thunder Hammers on characters who lurk in the gunline would also be advised. Lots of Psyker support is a plus too. It's always hilarious when a Knight charges, wipes one squad, then gets quickly taken apart by Death Hex, Smite, and a countercharge.

 

 

Combi-plasma on a few characters is not going to make a big difference, especially at 24", and only one character a turn gets to use deamon shells so that's not really something you can rely on for damage. 

 

I do agree thunder hammers would help a lot though, some high damage characters hidden among massed units could work. The only problem is if they get stuck in melee with a knight, it pretty much takes one failed save for a reaper chainsword to wreck a character. Though I will say I don't see melee weapons that often on knights anymore, guns seems to be the more popular option. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Didn't intend for the Daemon Shell and Combi-Weapons to be a main strategy, more to put the existing strategy up a bit further. Now that I think about it, I would personally try to find some way to get the points to replace a few of the Autocannons with Lascannons for Knight busting, possibly by replacing one 10 man squad with 5 man Havocs and moving one of the 20 man squads to that Battalion.

[Minsc]

I love the idea of "Irontide/Wall of Marines".

I'm probably gonna play something similar in my next game, although with a few differences:

 

- I'm either going to use The Scourged or Salamanders. Currently thinking hard about what to actually use. They're *very* similar if building a Wall of Marines-list. Both have pro's and con's in regards to stratagems, psychic powers, weapon variations and character-support. It basically comes down to the trait: Do I want offense (Salamanders) or Defense (Scourged).
 

- Since both The Scourged's and Salamander's trait heavily favors MSU, I won't be using 20man-units, and probably not many (if any) 10man-units, but a bunch of 5-man units.
The benefit of larger units (better mileage out of buffs/stratagems) imo does't outweigh the benefit of smaller units (better mileage out of trait, more sergeants/combi-weapons, easier to hide/grant cover to and cares less about morale.)

If going with The Scourged, I'm thinking something like this:

---Battalion 1---

1x Daemon Prince /w Wings, 2x Talons - 170 pts
1x Sorcerer /w Force Axe - 100 pts
 

5x CSM /w Lascannon, Combi-bolter - 92 pts

5x CSM /w Lascannon, Combi-bolter - 92 pts

5x CSM /w Missile Launcher, Combi-bolter - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Missile Launcher, Combi-bolter - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Missile Launcher, Combi-bolter - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Missile Launcher, Combi-bolter - 87 pts

5x Chosen /w Combi-bolters, Chainaxes - 85 pts

5x Chosen /w Combi-bolters, Chainaxes - 85 pts

 

5x Raptors /w 2x Plasmaguns, Combi-plasma - 108 pts

5x Raptors /w 2x Plasmaguns, Combi-plasma - 108 pts

5x Havocs /w 4x Autocannons, Combi-bolter - 110 pts

 

---Battalion 2---

1x Dark Apostle /w 2x Dark Disciples - 110 pts

1x Master of Executions - 70 pts

 

5x CSM /w Plasmagun, Combi-plasma - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Plasmagun, Combi-plasma - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Plasmagun, Combi-plasma - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Plasmagun, Combi-plasma - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Chaincannon, Combi-bolter - 87 pts

5x CSM /w Chaincannon, Combi-bolter - 87 pts

 

12 CP,  and 2000 pts on the nose.

Only 85 MEQ's though, which is noticeably less than the OP.
 

[shandwen]

...

12 CP, and 2000 pts on the nose.

Only 80 MEQ's though, which is noticeably less than the OP.

 

I like these a lot, but the havoks look to be a huge target as they appear as an odd unit out. It would probably work better to swap them for more chosen.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

...

12 CP, and 2000 pts on the nose.

Only 80 MEQ's though, which is noticeably less than the OP.

I like these a lot, but the havoks look to be a huge target as they appear as an odd unit out. It would probably work better to swap them for more chosen.

 

 

I tend to think that the Autocannon havocs are cheap enough to not care, but dangerous enough where the enemy will sling more then a fair share of firepower at them to get rid of the unit. T5 and 2+ save is pretty solid for that point cost I think.

 

I used autocannon havocs regularly but that was before the rules change. not bad! 

 

Also Minsc that list is.....VERY interesting. Still a ton of marines but that MSU design is interesting and preferable if you aren't specifically going for "big strategems" expenditure or crutching a strat like "shoot twice" or the "More where that came from!" trick. 

[Minsc]

 

...

12 CP, and 2000 pts on the nose.

Only 85 MEQ's though, which is noticeably less than the OP.

I like these a lot, but the havoks look to be a huge target as they appear as an odd unit out. It would probably work better to swap them for more chosen.

 

 

Meh, they're still pretty cheap and can be deployed out of LoS most of the time, then trudge into view on turn 1 without getting -1 to hit if I don't got first

5 T5 2+ wounds (assuming cover) for a 110-pts unit is fine, most opponents will overcommit in removing them.

 

(I also only have 10 Chosen in my fledgling Scourged-army. ^^ ) 

 

 

 

Also Minsc that list is.....VERY interesting. Still a ton of marines but that MSU design is interesting and preferable if you aren't specifically going for "big strategems" expenditure or crutching a strat like "shoot twice" or the "More where that came from!" trick. 

 

Yeah, it's nice to not having to rely on common crutch-stratagem.

 

I'm not sure what to spend those 12 CP on actually. It's not like we're drowning in amazing stratagems.

Guess I'll have alot of re-rolls and rolls on the boon-table.

 

[Lord Asvaldir]

The only problem with so many little 5 man squads is you'll get very little returns on stratagems. Yeah you have the havocs for endless cacophony/votlw but after that unit is dead, you only have  5 mans with sprinklings of special weapons that won't really get the bang for your buck on stratagems or buffs from the sorc/dark apostle. I like MSU a lot, for both chaos and my dark eldar I frequently run lots of 5 man troop choices squads,  but I do think most lists benefit from some larger units to really gain a better return on stratagems, psychic powers and prayers. 

[Minsc]

The only problem with so many little 5 man squads is you'll get very little returns on stratagems. Yeah you have the havocs for endless cacophony/votlw but after that unit is dead, you only have  5 mans with sprinklings of special weapons that won't really get the bang for your buck on stratagems or buffs from the sorc/dark apostle. I like MSU a lot, for both chaos and my dark eldar I frequently run lots of 5 man troop choices squads,  but I do think most lists benefit from some larger units to really gain a better return on stratagems, psychic powers and prayers. 

 

The Scourged are renegades so can't use VotLW, and Cacaphony is a Slaanesh-stratagem.

 

Call me old fashioned, stupid even, but I won't run my Tzeentch renegades with Mark of Slaanesh. ;)

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean that's a completely valid point, 4 of the renegade chapters should be god specific only, but I think it's better that rules wise players aren't forced into marks so they could use say the Purged traits for their own custom warband. 

 

My point though was less about those two specific stratagems but just more that 5 man small squads with a heavy/special weapon or two get a lot less return from stratagems, such as the Scourged specific one.  

[Closet Skeleton]

I mean knights is a big weakness for massed bolter list. Having lots of shots over high strength this edition definitely wins out, but I think there are limits to that. Massed s4 with no ap is going to struggle to deal with T8 +3 armored, whereas knights could wade into that mass of infantry pretty quickly and start taking them down fairly fast, and the limited number of plasma/heavy weapons in the army isn't really going to cut it.

 

Knights can't take out 20 strong marine units in melee with that much efficiency. 12 attacks feels like a lot in most circumstances but not against 20 models who are getting a 5+ save.

 

A Gallant with that anti-chaos melee stratagem will wreck them but a normal knight will be slowed down.

 

But unless you're planning on going 5/5 at a tournament worrying about any individual match up is pointless.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I actually think that the Renegdes will all get marks in the FAQ.

 

Scourged, Brazens, Flawless, and Purge will almost assuredly get marks, I think it was just an oversight in book writing. (Could be wrong, but I think it'll change soon) 

And interesting point about Vets and Cacophony regarding the supposedly marked units. huh..... that design makes alot more sense now lol. 

 

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

I mean knights is a big weakness for massed bolter list. Having lots of shots over high strength this edition definitely wins out, but I think there are limits to that. Massed s4 with no ap is going to struggle to deal with T8 +3 armored, whereas knights could wade into that mass of infantry pretty quickly and start taking them down fairly fast, and the limited number of plasma/heavy weapons in the army isn't really going to cut it.

 

Knights can't take out 20 strong marine units in melee with that much efficiency. 12 attacks feels like a lot in most circumstances but not against 20 models who are getting a 5+ save.

 

A Gallant with that anti-chaos melee stratagem will wreck them but a normal knight will be slowed down.

 

But unless you're planning on going 5/5 at a tournament worrying about any individual match up is pointless.

 

 

I play against knights regularly, I can attest to this. Marines slow them down pretty well in melee barring the one that ONLY DOES melee.  A blob of marines will die to them over several turns, and that 20 man blob is far cheaper than the knight attacking them. (262 if you want MAX BOLT SHELLS load out) 

 

Though I imagine now a 20 man like that will include 2 reaper chain cannons to abuse the same distance, same target priority, Vets/Cacophony combo for a somewhat *ludicrous* output for that troop unit. (108.... shots if were assuming bolter discipline, combi-bolter, and 2 reaper cannons in a 20 man) for a 302 cost troop unit. 

 

Than again I am the nut-case that sling shots Abbadon into Knights on the regular....... so perhaps I am a corner case for insanity    (5 kills and counting....) 

[Brother Aiwass]

I actually think that the Renegdes will all get marks in the FAQ.

 

Scourged, Brazens, Flawless, and Purge will almost assuredly get marks, I think it was just an oversight in book writing. (Could be wrong, but I think it'll change soon) 

 

And interesting point about Vets and Cacophony regarding the supposedly marked units. huh..... that design makes alot more sense now lol. 

I really hope you are wrong here. Would be a bad move.

[Minsc]

From a fluff-PoV, it makes no sense with anything else but MoT for Scourged, MoN for Purged, MoK for Brazen Beasts or MoS for Flawless Host.

From a a rules-PoV however, it's obviously better to allow the renegades to take whatever mark they want.
(Especially given how limited our stratagems and non-marked relic's are.)

 

Not sure I care if GW restricts it or not as I'll be playing my renegades with the appropriate mark anyway, regardless if it's enforced or not. 

 

Edit: MoN, not MoT for Purged, obviously. 

[Brother Aiwass]

Self impossed restrictions are fine imho (everyone do this one way or another), but I don't understand people asking for a nerf to everybody. I understand there's fluff behind the chapters GW used to make the new renegades rules but rules wise is very limiting.

[Panzer]

I fully expect the four obviously god specific renegade warbands to get mark limitations (if not the Flawless Host with Berzerkers will be hilarious) but I doubt any other renegade warband will get such limitations.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I could see GW going either way with enforcing marks on the three god specific chapters, but I suppose we'll see soon enough when the errata is out. 

[Mordian Glory]

Greetings fellow heretics,

 

So I had a practice game with my proposed army list. I had to proxy using a mix of chaos models and my Black Templars, but I was able to put down the 110 Marines :D

 

My opponent was also using chaos, but a much more competitive list then my own. His list was roughly:

 

Alpha Legion Battalion:

Deamon Prince

Deamon Prince

Chosen with 4x plasma

Chosen with 4x plasma

Rhino

CSM Squad With Lascannon

CSM Squad With Lascannon

CSM Squad With Lascannon

Bike Squad with 2x Plasma

Bike Squad with 2x Plasma

Bike Squad with 2x Plasma

 

Iron Warrior Spearhead:

Terminator Lord

3x Oblits

3x Oblits

3x Oblits

Chaos Nurgle Deamon Tree

 

Now its important to point out that he was using the oblits with the new rules, but the old points cost (65pts?). We now know that GW has clarified this and they should have been much more (115pts?). Also he got his marks mixed up and even though the oblits had mark of nurgle he used endless cacophony on them. Before anyone jumps in, my opponent is a really nice guy and this was a genuine mistake, but it definitely made a difference to the outcome of the game! 

 

The mission was beachhead from chapter approved 2018 and it was Dawn of War Deployment.

 

I deployed a 20 man blob as a screen across most of my deployment zone. I then had my other 3x 20 man blobs on my Middle right flank with a Sorcerer, Exalted Champion and my Warlord Chaos Lord. I had the champion instead of the Dark Apostle in this game just because i want to try it out and give me some kind of close combat punch. I figured 20 marines with reroll all wounds in combat would be decent. Unfortunately He didn't do anything this game so I think its back to using the Dark Apostle .

 

On my middle left flank I had my 30 shooty marines and my second Chaos Lord. I took these guys with heavy bolters as that is what the models had. They were ok, but lacked the higher strength of the Autocannon and I really needed it this game. In hindsight I would say its Autocannnons or better for these guys.

 

My opponent put all his oblits, the lord and the tree is reserve and blobbed everything else in the middle of his deployment zone. 

 

So my opponent went 1st and I played prepared positions. Let me tell you, 110 guys with a 2+ save is insane. I only lost 4-5 marines after my opponent had shot 6 plasma guns, 3 lascannons, 40ish bolter shots and 2 warp bolters!

 

In my first turn I was able to march forward and kill 2 out of 3 bike squads as well as give my screening blobs a 5+ Feel No Pain. Considering I was not in rapid fire range and he had -1 to hit on his whole army at this point, I am pretty happy with the result.

 

His turn 2 drops and its pain time. His oblits, lord and tree drop in on my right and his chosen jump out the rhino on my left. The Chosen hose down the screening squad with plasma and combined with supporting fire from the marines and remaining bikers kill them down to just 8-9 guys. His oblits target 2 of my other squads + use endless cacophony and I use Iron Within, Iron Without on one blob to give them a 6+ FNP. Even so it is rough and 1 squad is killed down to just 5 guys and another down less then 10. In total I lost 40+ marines in 1 round of shooting! I don't know the exact figures, but I know at this point I had 30 marines untouched giving support fire, 1 untouched 20 man blob and about 15 more marines scattered over 3 squads.

 

So I took a beating in his turn 2 but it was my time to strike back. I bring my shattered squads all round to the right flank and stay still with my 20 man squad and firebase. I am able to get prescience off on the 20 man squad but fail to get the 5+ FNP power. Now I had lost a lot of marines but I had all my special weapons left. My fire support squads start by clearing away all the chosen, which was nice! My shattered squads which had about 9 plasma guns between them opened up on the oblits. My opponent gleefully pointed out that because the oblits were nurgle deamons they benefited from the +2 cover save from the tree, which would have given them a 3+ save against my plasma . I then smugly responded that Iron Warriors ignored cover so suck it :P (My opponent is s a good friend this was all just banter) I was able to melt away 2 of the oblit from 1 squad and then my 20 man blob opened up. I was in rapid fire range as he had deepstruck close to me, and I  used endless cacophony. After the 12 over charged plasma shots and  60+ bolter shots all hitting on 2s rerolling 1s (with veterans of the long war) There was just 3 oblits left, 2 in 1 squad, 1 in another.

 

So I was pretty happy with the result. However, my opponent still had plenty left. I dont want to go into a blow by blow account as this is already becoming a wall of text, but essentially over the next 3 turns I lost all my advancing marine squads but was able to kill his oblits, bikes, rhino and some marines. He was able to win by 1 point because he had the middle point for 1 turn (which is worth 2 points but I had first strike and he didn't). I had 30 marines and a lord left at the end of the game and he had 2 deamon princes and 5 marines. 

 

I think the army did pretty well but I think 2 things led to the loss. Firstly his oblits getting to fire twice + being under costed. Realistically if he had all the oblits he wouldn't have had the chosen. Also he used Endless Cacophony twice, on a 3 oblit squad and the 2 oblit squad. If we hadn't made these mistakes I think I would have survived much better in turn 2 and been able to push onto the middle objective.

 

Speaking of pushing, this was my second mistake. I had 30 marines sitting back instead of pushing forward with the rest. I think if I had been more aggressive with my fire support squads it would have helped me keep the momentum. 

 

Also I made some rookie mistakes like bothering with the Champion and forgetting certain to use VotLW once or twice. hopefully this will improve with practice.

 

So there you go guys, a loss for the first battle. But I have learned a lot and I have another game planned for this week using the army. :) 

[Brother Aiwass]

Not very bitter batrep for an Iron Warrior, however Hammer of Olimpya style army thrown in the meat grinder? Yeah, that saved you of decimation! Congrats on the experiment, looking forward for more batreps like this one

[MegaVolt87]

New bolter rules went gold, I am interested more now to see this idea continue. 

[Skyrak Slaughterborn]

Ever considered noise marines with bolters for this kind of list. Everytime one dies your putting the hurt on. Would be a lot more fun