Teleport, Shoot, Die - Deathwing in 8th Edition

[HandsWithLegs]

A more competitive player I know suggested using a unit of 10 deathwing knights to deep strike onto a midfield objective to hold it and be very hard to remove. Has anybody tried this or something similar?

[Berzul]

So, 360 points to babysit an objective?

 

... Not sure.

[Isual]

So, 360 points to babysit an objective?

 

... Not sure.

I think this is a tactic specific to the ITC mission set.

[HandsWithLegs]

 

So, 360 points to babysit an objective?

 

... Not sure.

I think this is a tactic specific to the ITC mission set.

 

Yeah they guy who suggested it is a big proponent of ITC

[G8Keeper]

Probably a similar use to the 10 man deathshroud bomb only they have disgustingly resilient. 

[BlackTriton]

A more competitive player I know suggested using a unit of 10 deathwing knights to deep strike onto a midfield objective to hold it and be very hard to remove. Has anybody tried this or something similar?

 

I played about 20 games with 10 DW knight so far, in both ITC and CA missions.

I recently decided that, in most match-up, the knight should start the game on the table.

Its often impossible to deepstrike them mid table turn 2, its likely they will fail the charge (even with master of manoeuver) and if they are even slightly out of position, the enemy will just move away leaving you in the dust.

Starting on the table does leave you vulnerable to shooting but... that's kind of their job. After all the enemy cannot shoot your knight AND the helblasters at the same time. When you pay for an expensive tough unit having the enemy shoot at it is kind of the point. 

 

The biggest problem with DW knight is the same as any other terminator: the game is bias against 2W models and the lack of defensive play option. 

 

I will keep on testing DW knight starting on the table, I think they have potential but they are hard to use well.

[Interrogator Stobz]

There is a lot of discussion here about the lack of resilience of TDA, that is totally right and needs addressing, I'd say that in 8th to avoid DS/Shoot/Die they need to regain some of their elite status, give them T5 W3 2+/4++ and 5+FnP. (Compare with Wraithguard as an example).

 

But the other real issue is their near total lack of efficient damage output in both the shooting and CC phases:

 

Their shooting is only slightly above mediocre for clearing chaff, even with the most expensive strategem in the game it is a joke for the role TDA are meant to play in the lore.

They need better ammo for their Storm Bolters. Period. AP-1 S5 is a good start, just look at all the ammo Primaris have access to.

 

And; they cannot move fast enough to catch any reasonable targets with their overly expensive CC weapons and in that respect TDA are almost redundant unless you are ridiculously lucky or your opponent has a goof.

They need to have Mv. 6" again, the drop to 5" and 4" for two out of three types of TDA was an absolute death-knoll to them in the meta of blob screens and 9" DS restrictions.

 

I'm not sold on whether DSing in closer will help, against a moderately skillful opponent you will still be blocked from any target of worth and get to use the expensive and low rate of attack CC weapons against more chaff overkilling a few. Lightning Claws are good for chaff but you give up shooting for a very low chance of assault, so that gets a nope from me.

 

Assault ramps on Landraiders need to give TDA the ability to charge from the vehicle after it has moved, they are currently a waste of time, and PotMS needs to give Raiders the ability to leave CC without the no shoot penalty for non-fly units.

With both of those options TDA will have increased mobility, increased chance of assaulting something meaningful (skillful opponent play can still reduce this), protection up to the targets, and the ability to combine arms to clear chaff before that assault.

Without them the Raider needs to go slowly alongside the TDA in the last couple of turns of the approach so they can keep up, that delay creates huge risk to both units, more TDA get removed in handfuls and the meaningful targets move away slowly and safely.

 

None of this will happen of course,  we've seen the new Chaos TDA get no meaningful improvement. TDA will continue to be a DS/Shoot inefficiently/Die unit.

[Berzul]

Well, maybe we need to come to terms with the fact that the Dark Angels are just Withe Scars with black armor and feathered helmets.

 

We have bikes. Thats it. Thats what we are good at, in the game. The rest is just for fluff.

[PhilB]

+1 for Ven Dread Deathwing Lts. That would be great!

[domsto]

Well, maybe we need to come to terms with the fact that the Dark Angels are just Withe Scars with black armor and feathered helmets.

 

We have bikes. Thats it. Thats what we are good at, in the game. The rest is just for fluff.

And even bikes aren't great...

In most of my more seriouse Liste all the Deathwing and Ravenwing is left in the box.

[sneakybamsen]

 

Well, maybe we need to come to terms with the fact that the Dark Angels are just Withe Scars with black armor and feathered helmets.

 

We have bikes. Thats it. Thats what we are good at, in the game. The rest is just for fluff.

And even bikes aren't great...

In most of my more seriouse Liste all the Deathwing and Ravenwing is left in the box.

 

 

Have you tried a proper Ravenwing list? Doesn't sound that way to me, to be honest. Deathwing of course is another matter.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Quick, Someone start a new thread about Ravenwing, this ones for Deathwing.

And I want to see this RW power list discussion ;)

[Berzul]

Yeah, shoo! Shoo! Let us cry and complain in peace! Also, share the powerlisting you have in mind.

[sneakybamsen]

To be brutally honest, I think this kind of thread usually gets moderated long before it gets to fill 5 pages. We all know terminators are not in a good spot, not just deathwing, but complaining here won't change that. If GW are willing to do something about TDA, I don't know, but best bet to try to get them to change things, is to send well thought through suggestions to them by email.

 

In any case I think it's a sad read, which is also why I have been trying to bring something more constructive to the thread. Some posts have been constructive, others have not. It's the latter I disapprove of.

 

This is not meant to offend, just a statement of how I see this thread and have seen it since it's creation.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I think you are right Sneaky, and it's partly my fault.

 

+++If there is nothing more to add in a constructive way then I'll close this thread up shortly; if anyone feels it needs to be reopened PM me or another Mod+++

[Berzul]

Well, it STARTED with suggestions on how to improve the Desthwing. But, yeah, it degenerated quickly.

[Interrogator Stobz]

It's been okay, it's hard to be totally constructive when we know GW will very likely not listen.

But I'll close this one up as it's been done to death, here and in other places.