As nice as the new Chaos Marine kits look...

[Kaldoth]

They're honestly terrible, in my opinion. I just finished building a box of them, and this is possibly the most frustrating GW kit I've ever bought. When it comes to looks, I'll admit they're the upgrade that chaos needed. But when it comes to customization, they are utterly lacking in flexibility.

 

For those of you that haven't built one yet, be prepared for all of your marines to look the same. Unlike the old kits, all of the torsos and legs in this one are matched sets, or molded together out of the box. IE, you will always be putting torso A with let set A, etc. It's the same with weapon arms and torsos. The cool looking bolter with the belt that wraps around to an ammo box on the back of the waist? Good luck putting that bolter on any other model than the one pictured without having to break out the green stuff. These are honestly just like the snap together marines, but with more steps. Grenades and pouches don't exist, either. They're also pre-molded to specific sets. The only interchangeable parts you have are the shoulder pads, heads, and backpacks.

 

Oh and if you wanted to give the aspiring champion a bolter, there aren't enough arms to do it. I built mine with 7 bolters, a plasma gun, and a missile launcher. By the time I got to the champ, all that was left were close combat arms and one set of heavy bolter arms.

 

This really is a huge let down for me. I was so excited to see some awesome looking sculpts, but I also like to be able to customize parts and change them out so that all the marines look different. Buy more than two boxes of these and your troops are going to look super repetitive. Given they have a $60 price tag now, I really feel cheated out of my money for what I got. I took a break from chaos to work on my Orks for about a year. Coming back to this has seriously left a sour taste in my mouth.

 

Sorry for the gripe-fest, but to anyone else who liked the customization the old kit gave you, don't buy these if you were hoping for the same. If you want to keep your army looking different from squad to squad, stick with the old boxes of troops and use these for chosen.

[N1SB]

Thanks for the heads up.  I think I know what you mean because AoS had a similar thing, the miniature comes in pieces but you can only pose them in exactly 1 way.  It's like the Easy-to-Build product line, without actually being easy to build.  Is that the case here?

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah other than the new scale, its pretty disappointing to see the new kits like this. GW should just keep the easy build stuff for starter boxes or limited release ones like forgebane etc. Also for the price I would expect everything to be in a million pieces so I could use my own imagination to build different. I don't need ikea level modularity, slot A to slot A only is going to work etc. 

[MithrilForge]

A little disappointed to hear that, what with the hype of them saying "Compatible with other kits for customization" .... custom helmet, shoulder pads or back pack only eh  

 

Mithril

[Kaldoth]

Thanks for the heads up.  I think I know what you mean because AoS had a similar thing, the miniature comes in pieces but you can only pose them in exactly 1 way.  It's like the Easy-to-Build product line, without actually being easy to build.  Is that the case here?

 

That is exactly the case when it comes to anything but the bolt pistols and ccw arms. Every bolter goes to a specific body with a specific set of arms, etc. Like I said, the only thing you can really choose is heads, shoulders, and backpacks. Everything else is set in stone.

[Bryan Blaire]

Hate to say it, but welcome to the Primaris age...

 

Now, one of the VoxCast interviews did say that there is some body swapping possible, but you'd have to try multiple configurations to start figuring out which ones will work.

 

I'm not really convinced.

[Sception]

Sotuation is similar for terminators. Legs and torsos are again connected. Arms can go on any model, but only want to fit on at one particular angle regardless. At first it looks like you can easily pose them however if you cut off a triangle tab on the torso, but that is not really the case.

 

There are open and closed fingers as separate bits ftom the power fists, but each only fits to a particular fist, so the fist at this angke will always have open fingers, and the fist at that angle will always have closed.

 

Not only is there only one chain axe in the box, there are only two other hafted weapons that make for easy c.axe conversiin fodder, and apart from that only the power sword for additional non-fisty weapons (ie, that arent c.fist, p.fist, or l.claw), so even if you get together suitable chainaxe bits there just arent enough regular melee arms to give them to the whole squad without finding extra arms somewhere else.

 

On the up side, there's an extra shoulder pad in the box, and a whole five extra heads, so that's something at least. Another upside is that the 3rd party c.plasma halves I bought to fit to some tartaros combi bolters did more or less git on these, after removing the fitting tabs from both sides.

 

 

I've been converting up a squad of ten and... I mean, I've been making do. I have managed to repose the angle of a couple arms at the shoulder by hacking at the joins a bit and just sort of cheating. It hasn't bern an absolute nightmare, and the models do *look* great, but between the aggresively limited weapon selection in box and the lack of built in posability that has me fighting the models just to glue an arm to a shoulder at a different angle has made the project a lot more hasslesome than I anticipated, considering I'm not even trying to do anything fancy - no magnetizing, no gs work, etc.

[Subtle Discord]

I'm on the fence until I'm done building at least 20 because there's a lot to like but yes there's a lot of locked in pose and details. The two big letdowns for me are the locked in waste (ball joint please!) and the 'loincloth' details on every model with no way to remove them. Rather have them as an optional part most of the time so they can be moved around and/or left off.

 

I'm still hopeful because they are 10 unique models and that actually helps a lot; I was worried about the same issue with the 50 Skitarii I built recently but the squads have 10 unique models and it's enough to keep the visual variety up enough that it isn't too distracting. Yes, it will take head, arm, and backpack swaps to add to the variety and many won't be that challenging, but yes some will be more work. I guess I'm able to remember back to some of the much blander static models of past decades and then it doesn't seem so bad if you need to do some work when the starting model is so good. I signed up for Chaos so I could kit-bash and covert after all.

 

Yeah, as a designer I completely agree that some choices should be made to produce a superior product for the customer even if that's going to shrink the margins, and I'm disappointed that GW is going in this direction in their design philosophy. It's not enough for me to say I'm fed up with their product because despite any shortcomings it really is industry leading quality and variety but at the premium price they're already charging would it really be so hard to provide more switch-and-swap modularity in rank-and-file kits such as this?

[CMDR_Welles]

This is how the Plague Marines and Blightlords kits are. I was expecting the same from these. 

 

I'll probably get two boxes of CSM, and along with the Shadowspear unit, that will be the 3 troops for my Black Legion. 

 

As much as I love to kitbash and customize, a part of me finds it frustrating. But, I understand why this is the new trend. 

[MegaVolt87]

Hate to say it, but welcome to the Primaris age...

 

Now, one of the VoxCast interviews did say that there is some body swapping possible, but you'd have to try multiple configurations to start figuring out which ones will work.

 

I'm not really convinced.

 

When I started getting newer kits, what struck me immediately was how the bolters had a hand, and arms had a corresponding arm to match. Old days you could never open the instructions and just have at it with the kit and it would work and everything assembled would be posed/modeled  differently. People tell be the new way for the bolters etc is better, I disagree, I find it actually harder to assemble and paint this way. Luckily the Mk III has nothing on the breastplate, so I just put the bolter straight on. I see how others are painting their Primaris, like 40% of the model is built, otherwise you cannot actually paint the whole thing because when assembled its very hard to paint everything by the looks of it. 

[Doom Herald]

That's a shame. I don't use 3rd party models or parts. I guess that's going to change.

[Sception]

I mean, there's definitely a tradeoff with quality of detail. A tabbard modeled onto the figure is going to look better than a separate piece that's just slapped on, and effectively single piece leg/torsos dont have the awkward, perfectly horizontal waist line that separate leg & torso models often do, and fleshy models especially look wierd with flat or even ball & socket shoulders & waists...

 

But for armored models they could have done at least a bit better on out of the box poseability & customizeability.

 

Eh. The models are enough better that I'm still quote happy with the new line overall, but its still a pretty distracting fly in the soup.

[Minsc]

The new kits look great but they are terrible from a "freedom to do what you want"-PoV.

The Havoc's are limited on what heavy weapons you can equip them with.
Want to build a Chaincannon, a Heavy Bolter and 2 Autocannons? Too bad.

The Terminators are limited in general, lacking even their basic default-weaponry.
How many chainaxes do you get in the kit? 1-2?

The CSM too are lacking a lot of options that should be included in the kit.
Several heavy weapons aren't included, and not a single combi-weapon for the champion is included.

Heck, it doesn't even include enough bolt pistols and chainswords to make a full unit of bp+ccw CSM!

[40kChrista]

Hate to say it, but welcome to the Primaris age...

 

Now, one of the VoxCast interviews did say that there is some body swapping possible, but you'd have to try multiple configurations to start figuring out which ones will work.

 

I'm not really convinced.

 

It is possible.  I bashed together a Master of Executions today using the Auto-cannon legs, a regular chest front with tabard, champ backpack(all from Shadowspear), an old icon arm for the axe haft, chaos chariot Slaanesh head, and various spikes with skulls for the trophies.

 

There was a little bending involved, and some cutting but nothing major.  This is exactly like modding the push-fit Bloodwarriors into Berserkers for me.

[Subtle Discord]

No! If there's one thing they can skimp on it's Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. Bolter squads are simply going to be the most popular build hands-down and if you get two boxes you've got all you need for a full 10+ squad to have Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. 5-6 of each would be plenty if it means more room for a Combi or more combat options, especially when we know Berzerkers are coming at some point and they'll just add more.

[Cheex]

Let's be honest, though: even with multipose kits, they all tended to end up with variations of the same few poses. The main differences were in the exact pieces that were used (heads, shoulder pads, armour details, etc), but there were very few real differences in posing unless you were willing to break out the green stuff. I've seen plenty of armies (and bought plenty of second hand minis) that were built in the most boring way possible, squandering the benefits of multipose kits.

 

Overall, I think this kind of kit is a good thing. If you aren't a creative type, you can just put the models together as per the instructions and they'll look great; if you're better at modelling, there's still plenty you can do with them to make them more individual.

 

One thing I will agree on is that the kits need to have more of the basic options. IMHO, it should be possible to build a squad entirely armed with their basic equipment right out of the box.

[Minsc]

No! If there's one thing they can skimp on it's Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. Bolter squads are simply going to be the most popular build hands-down and if you get two boxes you've got all you need for a full 10+ squad to have Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. 5-6 of each would be plenty if it means more room for a Combi or more combat options, especially when we know Berzerkers are coming at some point and they'll just add more.

Such a boring mentality: "Bolters are better than BP+CCW anyway, it's fine if GW ignore the options I don't like."

 

Plenty of Legions and Renegade chapters have traits that favor close combat, and far from everyone who plays this game plays what's currently the best to the exclusion of everything else.

Why deny players who want to play these chapters the option to equip their CSM-squads for close combat?

GW could (and should) easily include enough bp+ccw's for a full squad.

[Subtle Discord]

Sorry, but in this case even without actual numbers to 'prove it', I'm all but positive that the kit will be used to create Bolter/Special/Heavy Marines much more often; you're really running all your marines with Pistols and Swords so you don't have enough? Even one extra box will top up two others to a full 20 sets. Please don't take this as a dig or some form of personal wish listing just making a reasonably calculated statement. Notice I didn't want more Bolters I was asking for things that there aren't even one of in the kit. So many other units really are just better at combat that the build is much less common and Bolt Pistols and Chainswords are already in other kits with more guaranteed to come when the Khorne release arrives. Besides, like the Bolters, 7 pairs means Marines with Pistols and swords, 2 with Specials, and a Champion with something else; that's a 'full gear' squad to GW, they never give the min-max, it's always a scattered selection.

[BrainFireBob]

I have some old boxes I am hoping to hybridize, but yeah, it's the current move. Out of box? As good as a real skilled modeler! Choices? Hell no!

[helterskelter]

With some minor shenanigans, between blackstones 2 bolter duders, a spare bolter dark vengeance chosen, a box of CSM, the shadowspear csm, 2 of my converted kill team dudes and awaiting a box of havocs for a final autocannon, I've just about managed to do a 15 man gun blob and a 10 man ccw squad. Snipping and having spare raptor special weapon holding gun arms were required mind

[DuskRaider]

I don't know, I swapped around multiple Bolter arms with bodies with no issue. As long as you use the corresponding arms, there's really no issue. Hell, I decided at the last minute to arm my Special with a Plasma Gun AFTER I used the instructions' body for a Bolter and it worked no problem. Between that, using FW heads and some Master Crafted Miniatures pauldrons, I think they work.

 

If you're feeling particularly daring, you could always assemble the bodies and then carefully cut at the waist. If you cut above the belt you should be able to avoid the pouches and grenades.

 

Come on, we as a community are more resourceful than what this thread shows.

[Panzer]

I'm not the least surprised. That's how new age GW models are (not just since Primaris).

However I always feel like people are exaggerate the poseability of older kits. Sure you could twist the torso, but never a lot before it looked bad. Sure you could switch out torsos and legs but they all looked very same-y from the beginning so switching out didn't really do much without carefully comparing two models. The only thing I can easily agree on is the lack of additional bitz like grenades and stuff not being separate anymore. That sucks.

[Guzzlrr]

I was under the impression they were semi modular there are some static legs & bodies but some are designed to be swapped out. A real shame if this is the case.

[Dragonlover]

I'm with Cheex and sfPanzer: for all the vaunted poseability of the old kits, you had two or three leg poses and two bolter angles.

 

Also, this is an area where the internet we consume warps our perceptions: most people don't convert things. They just build the kits as is.

 

Dragonlover

[Perry]

How many Chaos marines are you intending on using?

 

If you are attempting a Horde list then yes things could get samey, but 2-3 squads? Doubt it'll make much difference with the swapable heads, shoulders etc