As nice as the new Chaos Marine kits look...

[DuskRaider]

The limitations of the kit are being highly exaggerated in this thread. Yeah, it's a pain that the torsos and legs are fused, but a lot of the front plates are swappable. I know the Champion alone has four different options. As long a you match the Bolter arm to the correct left arm there's also no issue and can be placed on any body in the kit. I fail to see how requiring the aiming arm match the correct Bolter is a big problem. Any other Marine pauldrons, heads, arms and power cells swap directly. Swapping torsos or whatever will be a pain but with the proper cut it'll come off cleanly... not that it matters much if you're arming them with Bolters since you don't really see the torso anyhow.

 

I put my first box together relatively close to what the instructions say with the exception of swapping around which Bolters each is armed with, they all have FW heads which went on with generally no issue (the SoH heads with the horsehair knots were a little finicky due to their elongated grill). Maybe next box I'll splice torsos to show how it can be done.

[Marshal Loss]

Disclaimer: I have not yet bought any of the new kits, for I am moving to the other side of the planet (watch out yanks) later this year, and if I spend money on any of the new CSM my SO is going to beat me to death. A new terrible age of fiscal responsibility is upon me. May the dark gods have mercy on my soul.

 

I love how all of the new kits look, and to be completely honest, my attachment to these kits has warped (teehee) my feelings. I'm usually very critical of GW, and there are some horrendous dick moves in this release (chainaxes, combi-weapons, the chaincannon conveniently being the only singular weapon in the kit), but I am still firmly in the "over the moon" phase. That could very well change in the future, but at the moment, while I understand and empathise with many of the complaints, I won't be doing any complaining myself. I'll wait till I've had a play around with the new kits and seen the instructions people are citing before dusting off my pitchfork.*

 

Bias aside, none of this, nothing at all, has come as a surprise. Having bought/modelled/painted every single one of the new Death Guard kits, and having seen the Primaris release(s), I was under no illusions as to what we were going to get. This is the design philosophy of the day and it isn't going to change anytime soon. It is what it is. I would encourage my fellow veterans of the long war to continue to make themselves heard. We pay a premium to participate in this hobby and should never become inured to GW's corner-cutting, and any criticism, however unique to the perspective of the person that made it, is valid.

 

*not that my pitchfork is ever dusty, for it receives constant use

[MegaVolt87]

Well, the way I see it I still have the SM tac squad, SM Assault squad, SM devastators, MkIII- Mk IV squads and the khorne berzerkers for kitbashing old stuff. Only the berserkers will probably get the re-vamp. Other stuff will stick around hopefully. Who knows, maybe even plastic Mk II, Mk V and Mk VI in the future. 

 

*starts furiously punching wood.* 

[DracoFox]

Does anyone here know if the new Havoc box and CSM box are compatible? My Iron Warriors Dream is to be able to buy 2 boxes of Havocs and 1 of CSM and get 4 full havoc Squads. Because no matter how badly I want 4 Reaper chaincannons, I'd rather get 20 Havocs the cheap(er) way.

[Dragonlover]

=][= Things are getting a little One True Way To Hobby in here folks, back off a touch. Always remember, at the end of the day it's just toy soldiers! =][=

 

Dragonlover

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Agreed, there is pros and cons to this and the old kit. For some the pros outweigh the cons, for some the cons outweight the pros. Regardless of where you stand we should get building and painting and sharing. Whether it's stock or kit bashed it doesn't matter as long as you enjoy it.

 

I was sold on seeing the stock models, anything else I can do to them is addtional joy and bonus.

[Kraken]

 

Sure. And that works for you. But take my situation: I have a newborn and my hobby budget has shrunk over the past ten years to "one or two kits a year." I do not have the money to buy seven kits in order to convert one squad, nor do I have the time to slice, blu-tac, greenstuff, and otherwise piece together ten models in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. The crux of the argument isn't that "converting is too hard," it's "simple kitbashing is easy enough." There's a difference, and it has nothing to do with creativity.

 

Shouldn't the sharp decrease in kitbashability be good for you then? If you get a kit or two a year, the repetitive poses shouldn't be a problem? 

 

Not that it makes it any better for me, who was/is planning several squads, but for you personally that shouldn't be an issue?

The issue is that we can't do the loadout we want out of the box. Hell even the standard loadout can't be done with the Terminators.

So you HAVE to kitbash if you don't want your unit to have a stupid loadout (i.e: everyone having different weapons).

[ChazSexington]

 

 

Sure. And that works for you. But take my situation: I have a newborn and my hobby budget has shrunk over the past ten years to "one or two kits a year." I do not have the money to buy seven kits in order to convert one squad, nor do I have the time to slice, blu-tac, greenstuff, and otherwise piece together ten models in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. The crux of the argument isn't that "converting is too hard," it's "simple kitbashing is easy enough." There's a difference, and it has nothing to do with creativity.

 

Shouldn't the sharp decrease in kitbashability be good for you then? If you get a kit or two a year, the repetitive poses shouldn't be a problem? 

 

Not that it makes it any better for me, who was/is planning several squads, but for you personally that shouldn't be an issue?

The issue is that we can't do the loadout we want out of the box. Hell even the standard loadout can't be done with the Terminators.

So you HAVE to kitbash if you don't want your unit to have a stupid loadout (i.e: everyone having different weapons).

 

 

I'm aware of that, but that's not what I was talking about - I was specifically talking about the poses :)

[DuskRaider]

It is a bit ridiculous that they didn't provide enough Chainswords for a full squad. They're relying on you to want to field two special weapons and a Champ with something, which I think is a bit shortsighted. Especially when one takes into account that you can pump squads up to 20 and still only field two special weapons and a single Champion.

[Minsc]

It is a bit ridiculous that they didn't provide enough Chainswords for a full squad. They're relying on you to want to field two special weapons and a Champ with something, which I think is a bit shortsighted. Especially when one takes into account that you can pump squads up to 20 and still only field two special weapons and a single Champion.

Agreed.

 

A friend of mine is starting a Flawless Host-warband.

He bought 3 boxes of the new CSM, planing on having 3x10 CSM with chainswords and a poweraxe (relatively nice and cheap) as his troops.

He was...mildly disappointed when he realized that in the end, he in lacked in total 6 chainswords/boltpistols. Luckily for him I got a shoebox of CSM-bits, but still. Not every new player has that to their disposal. 

[Wayniac]

FWIW the "variety" in the old kit came from being 100% compatible with tactical/assault/etc. squads.  Same reason the Berserker kit was amazing in its time; we didn't have multipart CSM then (it was metal or the 5-man pushfit plastic "filler" box) so back in those days we made chaos marines by using berserker kits with arms from the plastic chaos marines or tactical marines, or mixed the Chaosy parts of the Berserker kit with the Tactical squad (shaving off khorne and aquila symbols as needed).

 

That's the "variety" I miss.  I love the visual aesthetic of the new CSM.  I hate how over the years GW has moved more towards making "action" poses that you are forced to make resulting in squads of guys who look virtually identical without extensive conversion work.

[Tyriks]

It is a bit ridiculous that they didn't provide enough Chainswords for a full squad. They're relying on you to want to field two special weapons and a Champ with something, which I think is a bit shortsighted. Especially when one takes into account that you can pump squads up to 20 and still only field two special weapons and a single Champion.

I just used each of my boxes to make 5 shooty dudes and 5 close combat guys. I would have liked to be able to make 10 of either but I'd probably end up with the same overall loadouts anyway.

[DuskRaider]

 

It is a bit ridiculous that they didn't provide enough Chainswords for a full squad. They're relying on you to want to field two special weapons and a Champ with something, which I think is a bit shortsighted. Especially when one takes into account that you can pump squads up to 20 and still only field two special weapons and a single Champion.

I just used each of my boxes to make 5 shooty dudes and 5 close combat guys. I would have liked to be able to make 10 of either but I'd probably end up with the same overall loadouts anyway.

I went all Bolters with a Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun and Champion wielding an Axe from the AoS Khorne dudes. I'm not a fan of mixed squads, really. One half sucks at range and one half sucks in combat.

[Panzer]

 

 

It is a bit ridiculous that they didn't provide enough Chainswords for a full squad. They're relying on you to want to field two special weapons and a Champ with something, which I think is a bit shortsighted. Especially when one takes into account that you can pump squads up to 20 and still only field two special weapons and a single Champion.

I just used each of my boxes to make 5 shooty dudes and 5 close combat guys. I would have liked to be able to make 10 of either but I'd probably end up with the same overall loadouts anyway.

I went all Bolters with a Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun and Champion wielding an Axe from the AoS Khorne dudes. I'm not a fan of mixed squads, really. One half sucks at range and one half sucks in combat.

 

 

Well it's still regular Chaos Marines we are talking about ... they suck at range and in combat anyway without special weapons. :D

[Tyriks]

 

 

It is a bit ridiculous that they didn't provide enough Chainswords for a full squad. They're relying on you to want to field two special weapons and a Champ with something, which I think is a bit shortsighted. Especially when one takes into account that you can pump squads up to 20 and still only field two special weapons and a single Champion.

I just used each of my boxes to make 5 shooty dudes and 5 close combat guys. I would have liked to be able to make 10 of either but I'd probably end up with the same overall loadouts anyway.

I went all Bolters with a Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun and Champion wielding an Axe from the AoS Khorne dudes. I'm not a fan of mixed squads, really. One half sucks at range and one half sucks in combat.

No, I mean I wound up with one squad of shooty dudes and one squad of close combat. Not two mixed squads.

[Mekhitar]

I love the details and aesthetics of the new kit, but I really dislike how the hands are attached to the weapons. It makes swapping in additional bolters or special weapons from my bitz box way more of a project than I’d like it to be.

[Slave to Darkness]

Whilst it is annoying that some elements will repeat over a few minis, just be glad you don't have to cut up metal minis to add a bit more spice to the poses.

*has Vietnam style flashbacks to the day I sliced two fingers open to the bone cutting the leg off a Terminator*

[Aarik]

One thing I noticed while looking at the new terminator sprues is that the spike/trophy racks take up a lot of space on the sprue.  Replacing them with more non-fist/lightning claw arms and combi-bolters would have been preferable in my book, but others' mileage may vary.

[Subtle Discord]

Never been a huge fan of the trophy racks, personally. I don't mind some kind of detailing on top, I think I'll use all of the spear-tips by themselves, but the picket fence just doesn't do it for me. I do like that there's only a tiny notch to deal with and not a large groove, if the builder doesn't want to add them.

[Mister Feral]

I’ve had some time now to play around with the Havoc kit. Not as flexible regarding swapping around weapons as I hoped, some do technically fit but not in a satisfying way with some of the poses then being a bit off, weapons pointing too high etc.

 

However, the standard of the kit itself is high, lovely details like the stabilising talons and the elongated helmets giving me some real classic 3.5 edition Raptor vibes. I also noticed how the leg greaves and shoulder pads seem slightly larger, almost like a mid-ground between standard Power Armour and Terminator Armour.

 

I’m probably just going to say screw rules efficiency and build one of each of the main weapons and have fun tinkering around with adding new armour details and decoration.

 

*edit* The kit would also be a fantastic foundation for any plastic Warpsmith kitbash, just add mechadendrites! You even get a trio of Special Weapons to use.