Beacon Angelis - Rules Discussion

[ambit]

I wanted to get other Deathwatch players opinions on this as I firmly believe one way, but totally understand that other have the opposite opinion and was wondering if there is any consensus, or if it's still contentious?

 

 

My opinion on the rule

 

A Deathwatch character can teleport in and then use the Beacon Angelis on a unit already deployed to relocate them to his position.

 

My reasoning for that opinion

 

It's resolved like all other 'end of movement' phase abilities, where the controlling player gets to decide the order through sequencing.

 

2 examples are using Deathwing Assault w teleporting Terminators and Burning Descent w deepstriking Seraphim - both abilities occur at the end of the movement phase, but can only happen after the specific unit first deploys.

 

The controlling player is deciding to deepstrike the Seraphim. After placing them on the battlefield he then decides to use Burning Descent and have them wipe out a guard squad... in the space that's now clear he teleports in the Terminators and wipes out another squad using Deathwing Assault. Then, he can decide to deepstrike in further units in the space the terminators just cleared... this is all happening at the end of the movement phase.

 

I can then choose to teleport my Watch Master into the now cleared area, then use the Beacon to relocate a unit of Aggressors... still at the end of the movement phase and following a sequence I have determined (as the controlling player).

 

 

 

My opinion on the rule

 

Using the Beacon in turn 2, on a unit that was already deployed in turn 1 AND that unit remained stationary turn 2 and didn't move.. the unit counts as having not moved when they get re-positioned with the Beacon.

 

My reasoning for that opinion

 

They are stationary during the movement phase, and using the Beacon at the end of the movement phase doesn't count as moving or they would have the wording like Da Jump and other similar abilities 'This unit counts as having moved for the purposes of any rules (e.g. firing Heavy Weapons).'

 

So having not moved, they can fire twice.

 

 

Edit: page 7 of the FAQ clarifies that they count as having moved

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

[BrotherAetherick]

Yes, you can deepstrike a character with beacon, and then beacon another unit.

 

No, the aggressors count as moving. As per the 40k rulebook FAQ, any ability that removes a unit and redeploys them makes the unit counts as moving:

 

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?

 

A: Yes.

[ambit]

Yes, you can deepstrike a character with beacon, and then beacon another unit.

 

No, the aggressors count as moving. As per the 40k rulebook FAQ, any ability that removes a unit and redeploys them makes the unit counts as moving:

 

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?

 

A: Yes.

 

Thanks for pointing it out, hadn't noticed that or had anyone mention it before. It's on page 7 of the FAQ if anyone is interested.

[Mr4Minutes]

As BrotherAetherick says. The answer is yes.

 

You didn’t ask, but on turn one you can move and advance a jump pack character and then use the beacon to teleport up a vet squad that was positioned somewhere else on the table.

[KGatch113]

Just want to be clear while we are on this subject....you can teleport a unit out of combat with this right?

[anarchistscourge]

Yep

[BrotherAetherick]

They also do not count as falling back (also works with teleport homers you get from bike).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They can assault that turn.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Both things happen at the end of the movement phase so you can’t do both. Only one action can be the end in this specific case.

[anarchistscourge]

That’s not true at all. If multiple things occur at the same time. The controlling player picks the order they happen. In this case deepstrike in then beacon

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The end of the phase is the very last thing to happen and this particular situation is not covered in any errata or FAQs. The model with the relic must be placed first.

[Mobius0288]

Both things happen at the end of the movement phase so you can’t do both. Only one action can be the end in this specific case.

 

What if I had multiple units in deep strike? With that same logic you could only be allowed to deep strike a single unit at the end of your turn since you would have multiple deep strike actions to make. That is clearly not the case.

 

 

The end of the phase is the very last thing to happen and this particular situation is not covered in any errata or FAQs. The model with the relic must be placed first.

 

The end of your turn is not a specific instance. It refers to after all your other dudes on the battlefield have moved. It's like a sub-phase: beginning of your movement phase (there are a few actions for this out there), movement phase and end of your movement phase. The controlling player would in fact have the ability to choose the order of events - deep strike, then beacon.

 

 

They also do not count as falling back (also works with teleport homers you get from bike).

 

Unless they fall back or advance before beaconing that unit. Add some VVs to be on the safe side :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

All deep strikes count as occurring simultaneously . All you are really saying is how’d you’d play it.

[anarchistscourge]

GW have specifically said on multiple occasions that anything that is said to take place at the same time occurs in the order of the controlling players choosing, unless there is an alternate activation in which case the controlling player goes first. They also addressed this exact thing for AOS. Yes I know it’s a different system, but if you look at what they said you could port it exactly over to 40k.

 

As said before end of phase is not a single thing, it is the interim between phases. It goes phase, end of phase, start of next phase, next phase.

 

What would you do if you had deepstrikers, a beacon and an apothecary (all go at the end of the phase). By your reckoning you would only be able to do one of the three

[ambit]

That's right, you can do any number of 'end of phase' actions in the sequence specified by the controlling player.

 

Based on that sequence, one action in the 'end of phase' can unlock another.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Let’s see the exact rules instead of this he said she said monkeigh business .

[Mobius0288]

Let’s see the exact rules instead of this he said she said monkeigh business .

 

Interpretation is always going to vary, unfortunately. It's been like this for many editions as you're probably aware. You have 3 individuals telling you you're interpretation is incorrect.

 

There is no FAQ on either, and you know where both movement and the Angelis Beacon rules are found.

 

My only other suggestion is to compare any ITC/ETC FAQs that may be out there. And if you want a definite ruling, you'll need to email GW so that they'll publish something.

 

@ambit: hopefully your originally question got fully answered.

[anarchistscourge]

For anyone that was interested, this is the article I was speaking about. - https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AoSWhoFightsFirst-Mar21-SequenceInfographic20yfehfs.jpg

 

I think we could very safely apply this to 40k also (even if it is an AOS article) as they never reference AOS or anything specific to that system.

 

It's very useful to keep in mind as there are tonnes of other conflictions, like with Beacon, within 40k occuring all the time (Berserkers fighting twice etc, conflicting with Slaanesh always going first)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

ITC doesn’t allow it FYI.

[shanewatts]

Blackorange - Do you have a source for the ITC ruling? I have had TOs of ITC events allow this (placing relic bearer from reserve, then using the relic to move a unit that was on the table already.)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I will get one this weekend. I am attending a local GT here in SoCal. FYI it should not work deep striking a Praetor for Custodes either.

[shanewatts]

Well the custodes stratagem specifically says that it can't be done, vs the beacon that does not.

[Kallas]

Well the custodes stratagem specifically says that it can't be done, vs the beacon that does not.

 

This.

 

The Custodes one works specifically on a Vexilia that was not set up during the turn.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Kallas that doesn't mean it is legal for the beacon .

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Y
ou are comparing apples to oranges. The Custodes stratagem allows you to set up a unit outside of 3 of a enemy, not 9, and that is why it has additional restrictions built in. It can also call in potentially scarier units than the DW relic. In contrast, the relic follows all the usual deep strike rules and is much more limited in what it can summon. It is also once per game, in contrast with the Custodes possible 2 per game. This is a bad comparison.