SkimaskMohawk Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 So I just got a good look at this guys rules and I was thinking to myself "you know he's pretty good". Not a support officer FOC unlock Maul doesn't replace any warhead (so he can still take a chainfist for example) Reroll invul saves against daemons Cataphractii 5 points to be a psyker Then I looked again. He selects his power from sanctic. Selects... The sanctic powers are nuts, especially when you can choose them. Gate of infinity, hammerhand and vortex all have some really good general applications, but sanctuary is overpowered. Straight up. Primarchs with 2++, thousand sons with 2++, imperial fists with 2++, salamanders with 2++. Hopefully this gets faqd out like the sekhmet and zardu choosing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 At this point I honestly think "select's" is meant to be "rolled for as normal" and the rules writing is just iffy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Yeah, at this point in the space-time-continuum we should be able to figure out that whenever someone at FW writes 'selects their powers' they actually mean 'to generate their powers'. No need for a FAQ there. But rules writing on this guy (and some other entries in Malevolence) is clearly sloppy once again ... like ... where the hell is the Primus Nullificators' combi bolter which he is surely meant to have since it comes with his suit of cataphractii armour ... Also, if he doesn't have it ... poor IF players, no storm shields for you on this guy ... and so on and so forth, the sad story of FW rules writing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 Their language is really all over the place. Some psyker entries have "generates" some have "choose", "utilize", etc...The esoterist who's right under the prime on the same page uses generate. But they've specifically felt the need to FAQ the writing where "select" and "choose" appear, as per the sekhmet and zardu. Lorgar transfigured for example uses "select", so in terms of rules writing, it does need a FAQ. In terms of wargear, the only workaround causes you to buy terminator armour and the necessary upgrades before making him a prime. You pay 35 more points, but at least you can get some legion gear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Invulnerable saves can't be modified to be better than 3++ (unless they removed this rule) so there's that at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 Invulnerable saves can't be modified to be better than 3++ (unless they removed this rule) so there's that at least. A quick search function through the rules shows this not to be the case. Even in 7th, you could get to a 2++, though a lot of places houseruled against it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Where. Inv is 3++ only in heresy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Untrue. Saves can stack up to 2+ for armour, invulnerable and / or cover, see page 41 AoD rulebook. It's only that certain items (cyber-familiar for example) or special rules (augmetics anyone ?) put a limit on their use, resulting in the often seen 3+ invulnerable. To be honest, a 3+ invulnerable is really really good enough, but there sure are a few rare combos that can go up to 2+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I remember an old global rule about it around the time of the first red books, but I don't have my copies anymore. Moot point though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Would Fist Primus Nullificators not be really good with the 3++ of the Storm Shield? Maybe Iron Hands with a cyber familiar and Cataphractii since they can take a shooting weapon as well, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5293874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 If someone tried pulling a 2++ on me it would be the only game they ever got from me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 ? Did you also stop playing people after they used the old tribune? Because his invul was better than a 2++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I mean, yeah, pretty much. Old tribune was a T5, EW, 3++ re-rollable with -1 to-hit. Its probably not intended, but, RAW, is doable in some instances. In that case, definitely write an email to FW so that their rules team are made all the more aware of the issue so that they can either address it (saying its intended) or FAQ it later down the line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 I feel like never playing someone after them using either is a little much. Like maybe ask them to not use it if it's dominating the game. Or invest in psychic defense at least for the prime; you can literally block it by nailing the unit with the new flamer. At least there's counterplay to this, unlike the tribune. The prime is still monumentally undercosted as it is right now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Also, since, iirc, Sanctuary affects a unit, the main thing is that he’ll be able to give +1 invuln to Primarchs meaning the few 3++ Primarchs possibly have access to a 2++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Word. It's good, but you gotta be clever to abuse it. ? Did you also stop playing people after they used the old tribune? Because his invul was better than a 2++ Definitely. If I'm not playing in an explicitly dick kicking game, and I see something dumb across the table, I say "dude, I'm not going to play that". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 Also, since, iirc, Sanctuary affects a unit, the main thing is that he’ll be able to give +1 invuln to Primarchs meaning the few 3++ Primarchs possibly have access to a 2++ Yea, but that new flamer is hard counter. Word. It's good, but you gotta be clever to abuse it. ? Did you also stop playing people after they used the old tribune? Because his invul was better than a 2++ Definitely. If I'm not playing in an explicitly dick kicking game, and I see something dumb across the table, I say "dude, I'm not going to play that". I mean, I havent had a pickup game in years; they've all been pre arranged. So to me, you just discuss it before hand. There's never a moment of "ok buddy that's dumb and I'm never playing you again". Which is what lt dan there said Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Also people, please note the following in regards to the Imperial Fists & Storm Shields issue ... Definitely possible on the Primus Nullificator, if you get around to exchange his (missing ?) combi bolter for a storm shield AND then manage to roll Sanctuary on your level one psyker. Good luck. Same holds true for Legion Terminators with Storm Shields. Doable, but is it worth the effort ? They're probably better joined by a more punchy independent character any ways. Not feasible on the Legion Nullficators at all, since, let's all re-read the description on Storm Shields again, only Legion Terminator squads can be equipped with them. Which Legion Nullificators are not. So, the 2++ would be a highly niche occurrence ... Oh yeah, not taking into account your sanctic daemonology dude perils on the roll of any doubles ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 If you put him with units that can't get to a 3++ on their own it's niche yea. Perils doesn't stop the power from going off in most cases. He can select his power The only punchier ICs are primarchs, chaplains and paretors Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 A little disappointed about the Nullificators not being to take Shields. That would've been a pretty cool conversion opportunity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 He can select his power Luckily, not in my 'pre-aranged' games, since I don't do pick up games either. The only punchier ICs are primarchs, chaplains and paretors Warmonger, Legion Champion & Forge Lord Consul at the least beg to differ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 That's fair enough on the group; my group plays pretty RAW, so strong things don't just change due to distaste. And yea, those three have more output (champion only against ws5), but imo only the warmonger has a better cause to be taken Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5294915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 That's fair enough on the group; my group plays pretty RAW, so strong things don't just change due to distaste. And yea, those three have more output (champion only against ws5), but imo only the warmonger has a better cause to be taken Forgelord rad grenades are super sick if you are s6 on the unit or a s9 primarch so really good for world eaters death stars. Obviously death guard and dark Angel's dont care But rad grenades are second to chaplain for offense so best for the hatred of angron and co. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5295232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 Well in those two cases, hammerhand offers a better buff as it can be more flexibly applied against vehicles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5295449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Does this guy have a rule that protects against perils on any doubles for sanctic? Also what are people thinking of using for his fancy maul I feel like I would want it to be obviously more elaborate than your usual maul. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355173-primus-nullificator/#findComment-5295492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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