What to buy if starting a new army?

[Lord Kallozar]

Hey. Thinking of starting a new army, either mortifactors or silver skulls (that’s not the point here anyway) but I was wanting advice. Would you guys think it best to now just go full primaris or still buy space marines for the army?

 

The reason I ask, is that with the release of the new chaos models, they are now pretty much primaris size which now makes standard space marines look small and dated already. And I don’t wanna start a fresh army that looks “dated” straight from the off, I want to “future proof” the army if I’m investing into it.

 

So should I plunge full primaris and embrace it? Or is there still a justifiable reason for using the small space marines?

[Panzer]

The new chaos models aren't Primaris size. They are Deathwatch size.

If you want to furureproof you probably shouldn't buy non-Primaris models, no.

[Toomanyprojects]

I don’t think that GW will ever fully invalidate the ‘traditional’ Space Marines and go 100% primaris - they’d run the risk of alienating far too many of their customers and there will be one or two nostalgia models in the future methinks.

 

That being said, I personally prefer the aesthetic of the primaris and the newer kits of Marines (Deathwatch and the like) but it’s really down to personal preference on your part. Both are viable rules and minis wise at the moment so have at it.

 

On a side note, I’d choose silver skulls - you can pick up loads of shoulder pads on eBay for practically nothing split from the DW Vet kit. If you want a moulded shoulder pad for the mortifactors, you’re gonna be buying a lot of Artemises (Artemi? Artempodes?) to get them :)

[Ishagu]

Go full Primaris.

 

Models are stunning. There will be more releases coming this year so it's a good time to start. Cheap too with plenty of kits on ebay or boxsets.

[Robbienw]

Buy normal marines. Still mostly recent up to date kits and lovely models. Ignore the internet cynics, they will still be around for many years.

 

Also, the new chaos marines are no where near Primaris sized. They are noticeably smaller. They are the same size as deathwatch, space marine heroes, the chaos chosen models from Dark Vengenace etc, so are only a bit taller than other marine kits, they don’t look silly next to each other.

[Ishagu]

There's no cynicism.

 

If there is a classic Astartes kit (or kits) that you absolutely love, by all means buy it, paint it and use it in games.

 

If not, go for a full Primaris force. The kits don't quite look right together, older Marines being very small and squat by comparison.

I've been collecting Astartes for 22 years and the new Primaris look amazing. I've been admiring the new infiltrator kit these last few days for example. I just wish Marines had always looked this good!

 

I've never been as happy with how a Marine army looks on the tabletop as when I field a Primaris force. They look imposing and powerful, and far above mere mortals in their stature.

[Marshal Rohr]

Hey. Thinking of starting a new army, either mortifactors or silver skulls (that’s not the point here anyway) but I was wanting advice. Would you guys think it best to now just go full primaris or still buy space marines for the army?

 

The reason I ask, is that with the release of the new chaos models, they are now pretty much primaris size which now makes standard space marines look small and dated already. And I don’t wanna start a fresh army that looks “dated” straight from the off, I want to “future proof” the army if I’m investing into it.

 

So should I plunge full primaris and embrace it? Or is there still a justifiable reason for using the small space marines?

 

Another option is to use plasticard or greenstuff to extend the legs of your oldmarines to chaos marine height. Time consuming but looks amazing. 

[Robbienw]

There's no cynicism.

 

Yes there is

 

Many many people have been saying since Primaris appeared that classic marines will be phased out in short order, and its just not happening.  GW are concentrating on Primaris largely in the space marine sphere at this current moment in time, but that doesn't mean they always will be.  They are still producing some new classic marines even whilst doing that, and FW are sticking with the classic marine design paradigm.

 

OK, maybe not all are cynics, some are just trolling, but you know what i mean.

 

By all means go full primaris if you like the chunky look, but don't do it just because some unnecessarily negative individuals on the internet are saying erroneously that classic marines are going to be phased out.

[Ishagu]

And I'm giving him a fair and objective suggestion based on which range looks better and will receive more support, in the interest of having the best looking and most cohesive army.

 

It's actually cheaper and easier to collect Primaris, and there's no need to chase bits or kits to build optimum units.

 

As TC has specifically said he wants to future proof the army, the answer is very simple. By all means buy any kit you love the look of, but a Primaris focused army is the way to go objectively. Keep in mind that I regularly run a Sicaran Venator or Contemptor Dreads alongside my Primaris and feel that those units mesh quite well with the army. The Venator is much bigger than the ancient looking Rhino chassis vehicles and thus fits the Primaris better, visually and in function.

[Marshal Rohr]

Another key aspect to choosing a new army is to decide on a time period you want your army to represent. You might prefer the War of the Beast of 2nd War for Armageddon. 

[duz_]

=][=

 

Do not turn this thread into a proxy for Primaris vs Mk7/8 marine debate.

Objective discussion relating to the original post is fine.

 

=][=

[Marshal Rohr]

Hey. Thinking of starting a new army, either mortifactors or silver skulls (that’s not the point here anyway) but I was wanting advice. Would you guys think it best to now just go full primaris or still buy space marines for the army?

 

The reason I ask, is that with the release of the new chaos models, they are now pretty much primaris size which now makes standard space marines look small and dated already. And I don’t wanna start a fresh army that looks “dated” straight from the off, I want to “future proof” the army if I’m investing into it.

 

So should I plunge full primaris and embrace it? Or is there still a justifiable reason for using the small space marines?

 

 

What period in 40 history most appeals to you?

[Robbienw]

And I'm giving him a fair and objective suggestion based on which range looks better and will receive more support, in the interest of having the best looking and most cohesive army.

 

It's actually cheaper and easier to collect Primaris, and there's no need to chase bits or kits to build optimum units.

 

Your suggestion isnt objective.  Its an entirely subjective opinion as to which type of marine looks better.  We have been over this before!  I prefer normal marines and think primaris are ugly, this is also a subjective opinion

 

Sure primaris will receive more support in the immediate future, but that could easily change.  I fully expect GW to revisit classic marine designs a few years from now, they are just too good and have made GW too much money to be cast aside forever.

 

Go with whatever you like the most (or what you feel is best in game if you are a gamer) don't be put off from buying things by the internet negative vibe distributors.  Mixed forces of Primaris and Classics are perfectly fine and are actually quite fluffy in the dark imperium era 

[Ishagu]

Erm, did you read TC's post? He said he feels the classic Marines look small and dated already.

 

The reason to use classic Astartes is to plug holes in the capabilities of Primaris. I wouldn't focus on the cc element of Astartes as it's quite sub par (Unless you're running BA or SW rules).

Primaris lack anti tank beyond the Repulsors and Hellblasters (Which are admittedly great) so I suggest investing in a Sicaran Venator or a few Contemptor Mortis Dreads with two Twin Lascannons if you want to bolster that aspect.

 

To add to that, it's entirely possible that a new wave of releases this year will solve the anti tank issue. You can start off building your chapter by getting Dark Imperium, Shadowspear and a few extra Hellblaster kits, as well as a Repulsor (Or two). A Primaris army is one of the cheapest to put together.

[Robbienw]

Erm, did you read TC's post? He said he feels the classic Marines look small and dated already.

 

 

If he feels that way, he should just go Primaris.

 

But I dead read his post quite carefully.  He was basing that on the erroneous view that the new CSM are Primaris sized; they definitely arent, they are noticeably smaller.  So I pointed that out to him so he could reconsider

 

He also asked for justifiable reasons to use small space marines, and I gave him some.

[Ishagu]

Yeah the new CSM are indeed not Primaris sized but do look a bit bigger due to the poses and slightly better proportions.

I think the DG are still the biggest Chaos Astartes.

[duz_]

=][=

Reopening the thread.

 

Keep the discussion constructive and avoid the unproductive Primaris vs non Primaris criticisms.

 

=][=

 

[RikuEru]

I will be Devil's Advocate and say:

 

Buy both - Primaris and Old Marines!

 

Why?

 

See the Primaris as your main army for the future. Without a doubt the next codex revamp or campaign books or whatever will have expanded, improved rules for them, with additional units/options coming alongside those books.

(Look at the AoS Stormcasts and their Chambers/Release Waves - I highly assume Primaris will go a similoar route.)

 

Buy the Old Marines to broaden your variety of bits available, to make custom units and personalized characters.

This is of course mostly viable if you want to do a UM/DA/SW/BA Primaris Army/Successor or if you take your decorative/'cultural' flavour bits from other kits or sources.

 

(Of course a more "generic"/plain/straightforward Primaris force can profit from other bits too. Power Fists, Plasma Pistols and Power Swords are still pretty rare-ish for Primaris. Meanwhile anyone with a relatively well sized Marine army and bits collection should have some of each left over. {Except for probably all the Black Templars and Dark angels with their Plasmapistol-and-Powersword Obsession})

 

For example a simble old meltabomb under the backpack, Fenrisian Knife, Blood Angel Blood Tear Trinket on a weapon handle or a Dark Angel Doodad on the belt can easily make a Sergeant Stand out in a Intercessor Squad. Now add helmets, heads and pauldrons on top of that variety.

Such few, but very on-point details spread over your entire army will give it a uniform, fitting look.

 

That is just my recommendation though and the way I will go forward with my Primaris Force.

[Lord Kallozar]

Thank you for all the input most appreciated. I’m probably going to field both primaris and space marines together.

 

Just another quick question, are the space marine shoulder pads and primaris shoulder pads the same size?

[Panzer]

Yeah they are the same size, just not the same design. You can switch them out but it will be obvious it's from a different type of armour. Same with helmets and stuff.

[duz_]

Yes helmets and shoulder pads were intentional made interchangeable.

 

Although I found the Mk6 helmets don't look the greatest on Intercessor armour but do work on the Phobos. Similarly the Phobos shoulder pad design is stylistically different, but you should be able to put regular pads on too.

[Lay]

The reason I ask, is that with the release of the new chaos models, they are now pretty much primaris size which now makes standard space marines look small and dated already. And I don’t wanna start a fresh army that looks “dated” straight from the off, I want to “future proof” the army if I’m investing into it.

 

I have a similar problem since I like to field my Alpha Legion in both spikey armour and 'incognito' in loyalist armour. If you want old school Marines that don't look too small next to newer minis, there's a few options:

 

- The "Space Marine Heroes" minis, which used to be Japanese exclusives. The only downside is that the content of boxes is randomized. I got mine from an online seller who offered each individual mini. They also have sculpted bases that add a tiny bit of height.

- The 2016 Space Marine paint set kit. That's 3 static Marines with bolters. It's OOP, so an online seller is your only option. Got me a bunch (12!) for a steal and resold/gave away the paints pots. A bit cumbersome but ultimately I broke even.

- Current Marines with Deathwatch legs = just barely smaller than the above options. Best option if you want something other than Tacticals.

 

This site has pics that show how the Japanese SM/Deathwatch leg combo look like sizewise:

https://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/2018/11/review-japan-exclusive-space-marine.html

 

Granted, you have to ask yourself if you're willing to go through the hassle and pay extra for all the bits you'll need or just use plasticard and conversion skills to get the same result.

[Karhedron]

I agree that a mix of Primaris and normal marines is probably the way to go (at least at the moment). Primaris lack long-ranged firepower and anti-tank (Hellblasters can work at a pinch but need a Captain to babysit them). The Repulsor can pack some lascannons and Las-talon but at over 300 points, it is not cheap.

 

I normally run a Dev squad of 3 Lascannons and 1 Plasma Cannon plus a few ablative bodies. It is fairly cheap and effective. There are plenty of anti-tank options on vehicles if you wish, I tend to favour infantry-heavy Marines but that is just personal taste. I also find it is worth including a few missile launchers and heavy bolters for the Mortal Wound stratagems.

 

In short, going Primaris-heavy is fine but I think you will struggle with no classic Marine units as the Prmiaris range currently has some significant gaps. Maybe don't over-invest in classic Marines. Just get a few units to cover key capabilities and retire them if/when a Primaris equivalent gets released.

[Panzer]

Less future proofing for sake of having a more capable army right now (and who knows for how many more years) is definitely a good decision as well as long as you are prepared that it might happen that GW moves further and further away from classic Marines.

[Ishagu]

Get one or two Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts.

 

Gaps filled.