HighMarshalAmp Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1x Watch Captain (Storm Bolter, Power Axe) 1x Librarian (Storm Bolter, Force Axe) 3x 5 Veterans (5x Storm Bolter, Power Axes on the Watch Sergeant and Blackshield) 2-3x 3 Bikers (2x Chainsword, Storm Bolter and Power Axe on the Sergeant) To this, I'd like to add two Ven Dreads. Keeping with the range-focus-with-CC-contingency theme, they'll keep the CCW either way (Incidentally, the SBs on vehicles don't get SIA, do they?) but I'm unsure wether to give them Lascannons and have them hang back and snipe armor or Assault Cannons to DS them in and have them put out as many shots as possible before charging stuff. TLCs, backfield camping, denying enemy DS behind my lines and instead DSing the 3 Troops to the front seems more viable, but DSing Dreads otoh seems more awesome... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 TLC/ML is probably the best long range anti armor fire power we have out of the codex. If you are planning on running them with a CCW and intending to get them in close I’d go Ass Canon because of it’s closer range and number of shots. And no, vehicle storm bolters do not get SIA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5293893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasp Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I’m running three Ben dreads with TLC and CCW this weekend at a tourney. It’s the only Armour punch I have. I plan to use them aggressively, walk up the field shooting and then using those beautiful ccw when able. I just can’t atand to field dreadnoughts w/o CCW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5293979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I agree that the DCCW is worthwhile - if nothing else, it's cool, but they're pretty damn solid weapons and make the Dreadnoughts much more of a multipurpose tool than going Hellfire (TLC/ML). I also prefer TLC/DCCW (SB) for my Venerable Dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5293997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloeberjong Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 The TLC is solid, but I never got much out of the ML. That single krak missile isn't going to make much of a difference. It makes the dread easier to lock in cc as well. I prefer the DCCW. It's a bit more points to be fair, but also way more versatile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5294042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syward Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Why not both? I'm building 2x Venerable Dreadnoughts for my army right now, and you don't need to glue the weapon arms on at all. The friction fit securely holds the arms on during play. If you don't glue the arms on you can have some flexibility to adapt the weapon load outs on a per game basis. I've got 2x TLLC arms, 2x ML arms, 2x DCCW arms, 2x Assault Cannon arms & 1x Heavy Plasma Cannon arm. To more directly answer you questions; IMHO, you should use the TLLC for your list. You don't really have anything in your list that can deal with Tanks/Vehicles or high toughness units outside of CC and the range on the TLLC will make your opponent have to more carefully consider their movement. If points allow for it, you could use the DCCW w/SB (while the Dreadnought SB doesn't get SIA, they do benefit from the bolter discipline beta rule) to keep with the 'shooty-staby' theme of your army. However it is cheaper to use the ML. YMMV on the use of the ML, I've had games where the Krak missile helped, and just as many games where the it failed to wound and was wasted and I wished I had the DCCW w/SB for the 4x SB shots. Plus as mentioned by @Sloeberjong, if you have the DCCW you aren't as vulnerable to getting locked in CC. If you want to DS the Dreadnoughts, you may also want to consider the Heavy Plasma Cannon option as well. It's cheaper than the Assault Cannon, but can better deal with Tanks/Vehicles and high toughness units before you charge and use the DCCW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5294222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta.Skies Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 If you do decide to go ven dread with cc weapon and heavy, youll be on the move so i would suggest watchmaster over captain. (I dont know if the captain had a jumpack.) Veil of time and maybe might of heroes or the challenging null zone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5294668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Watch Master doesn't allow the Ven Dreads to reroll the 2s, as rerolls are done before modifiers, so Captain is better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5294811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta.Skies Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Watch Master doesn't allow the Ven Dreads to reroll the 2s, as rerolls are done before modifiers, so Captain is better. ahhh got ya. Thanks for the clear up. Need to make a mental note of that reroll rule. And that definitely makes sense due to the wording. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5295075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Watch Master doesn't allow the Ven Dreads to reroll the 2s, as rerolls are done before modifiers, so Captain is better.ahhh got ya. Thanks for the clear up. Need to make a mental note of that reroll rule. And that definitely makes sense due to the wording. It's an easy mistake to make, as the reroll/modifier interaction is somewhat counter-intuitive, but it is what it is! Just means that the Watch Master should hang around with Veterans/other BS3+ units; although assuming he has the Tome of the Ectoclades then he could be useful still for the Ven Dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5295089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 In accordance with what seem to be the consensus in this thread, I've settled on the TLC variant. Partly, I'd like to add, because there are some other lists I'd like to field parts of alongside this one who lack crucial backline support which those Dreads could provide. And also because DSing my 3 Troop choices instead, letting loose a total of 60 SIA Bolter shots and then, should an opportunity present itself, charging with a potential 45 Melee attacks following, will wreak more havoc on anything than the two Dreads could ever hope to. Thank you all!!!! I considered the Captain vs Master-question as well and initially went with the Captain just to keep the points below 1000 with the TLCs - else I would've gone for the Master since he'd have been the third unit to DS in with the Dreads (had I chosen that route) and he's just sturdier and more dangerous than the Captain. Now that the two HQs will likely stay back to buff the Dreads (since their auras and abilities would be wasted if they'd slog it towards the front where their men will get slaughtered in the meantime), the Captain feels like the better choice overall - like it has been pointed out, a stationary Dread doesn't profit any less from his aura than the Master's and with his SB, the Captain will get twice the number of shots the Master would and that just about makes up for his inferior AP against a single target while against hordes, he can potentially slay twice as many models in the shooting phase - huge difference, that last one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5295152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 How about the Contemptor Mortis with dual twin las ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5295158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 Actually... I hadn't considered FW simply because I didn't remember that there were units as magnificently unpretentious as the Mortis in there. My goal was fielding two of the good ol' boxy Dreadnoughts, so the Contemptors had been ruled out from the get-go (although they're the better choice in many ways) and that there was such a thing as a plain Mortis had just slipped my mind. But the Mortis with 4 Lascannons fits the bill perfectly! And what BS it loses, it makes more than up for. It does lose every Melee contingency and that bugs me a bit, but I'll just give it a whirl. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5295830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Why not a Redemptor, sure it hits on 3s instead of 2s (but if they are not moving and your Watch Master is babysitting them its no issue) for same-ish points it has 5 more wounds, can take a ranged weapon in each hand AND can use its fists in combat (which i have seen punch a Daemon Prince to death in 1 round) i purposely leave a 9" gap beside these guys to tempt a enemy deep strike, last mistake they will ever make, better than any Ven Dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted May 8, 2019 Author Share Posted May 8, 2019 Because, limiting and tactically questionable as it may be, I'm building a strictly non-Primaris force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I totally get that. I am the opposite though, i made an all Primaris army, i get tasty Hellblasters, the Redemptors and Aggressors, but not a storm shield or frag cannon to be seen :( i did cheat tho, just bought 2 thunder hammers, 2 jump packs and 2 storm shields off ebay, going to kitbash my Primaris watch captains into smash captains, i am also going to remove my 3rd Redemptor, 3 Hellblasters and buy 3 assassins. (not sure if 3 assassins are worth 1 dread and 3 hellblasters but i need some chaotic blitzing) So my list will be... ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [44 PL, 7CP, 779pts] ++ Battle-forged CP [3CP] Detachment CP [5CP] + HQ + Watch Captain [7 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer Watch Captain [7 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer + Troops + Intercessors [10 PL, 177pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Aggressor. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor. Two Assault Bolters: 2x Assault bolter . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Chainsword Intercessors [10 PL, 177pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Aggressor. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor. Two Assault Bolters: 2x Assault bolter . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Chainsword Intercessors [10 PL, 177pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Aggressor. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor. Two Assault Bolters: 2x Assault bolter . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Chainsword ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [60 PL, 1CP, 966pts] ++ Detachment CP [1CP] + HQ + Primaris Librarian [7 PL, 101pts]: *Might of Heroes *Null Zone, Force sword Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]: Relic - Tome of the Ectoclades, Warlord - Lord of Hidden Knowledge + Elites + Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 156pts]: Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon . 2x Stormbolters: Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 156pts]: Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon . 2x Stormbolters: Reiver Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: Grav Chutes . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver Sergeant: Bolt Carbine, Combat knife Reiver Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: Grav Chutes . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver: Bolt Carbine . Reiver Sergeant: Bolt Carbine, Combat knife + Heavy Support + Hellblasters [16 PL, 203pts] . Hellblaster: Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster Sergeant: Plasma incinerator, Plasma pistol ++ Vanguard Detachment (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [15 PL, 255pts] ++ + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 85pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 85pts] ++ Total: [119 PL, 8CP, 2000pts] ++ standard play is the watch master babysits the dreads, 3 killteams (highly mobile as they are all assault based guns) speed around mid board, the shooty Reivers grav-chute in and take rear objectives and enemy backline T4 units, Hellblasters teleportarium in and take rear objectives and enemy back line T5+ units, seeing as i lost a dread and 3 Hellblasters the smash captains need to jump pack in and help out taking out the heavys in the enemy backline, the assassins break loose and cause havok where needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwashBuccaneer Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 That looks like a really fun solid Primaris list. I'm scrapping my current list and trying to redo it from scratch and more Primaris are something I've been considering. I have enjoyed my assault based Fortis team in the past when I remember to move them around the board and not objective camp. ;) And damn I just looked up the Redemptor Dreadnought and that thing looks like a beast. How did I ever miss this guy? The plasma gun looks juicy on paper but not sure how good it actually is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Have you considered turning the 2 reiver squads and hellblaster squad into fortis kill teams? You’re already paying for 2 hqs so giving yourself 3 troop choices upgrades your vanguard detachment into a battalion for more CP. Then you can use the teleportarium strat to bring all three in. And the intercessor bolt rifle is better then the bolt carbine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloeberjong Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 That looks like a really fun solid Primaris list. I'm scrapping my current list and trying to redo it from scratch and more Primaris are something I've been considering. I have enjoyed my assault based Fortis team in the past when I remember to move them around the board and not objective camp. And damn I just looked up the Redemptor Dreadnought and that thing looks like a beast. How did I ever miss this guy? The plasma gun looks juicy on paper but not sure how good it actually is. I like the Redemptor, I use it almost every battle. Preferably 2. Usually with gattling loadout, but sometimes with plasma as a gunplatform. The Plasma is statistically equal to a twin lascannon. It has less range tho, and a chance to wound the dread. It's decent for its points now after CA18, but don't expect miracles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syward Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 That looks like a really fun solid Primaris list. I'm scrapping my current list and trying to redo it from scratch and more Primaris are something I've been considering. I have enjoyed my assault based Fortis team in the past when I remember to move them around the board and not objective camp. And damn I just looked up the Redemptor Dreadnought and that thing looks like a beast. How did I ever miss this guy? The plasma gun looks juicy on paper but not sure how good it actually is. In my experience with the Redemptor, it's a tough unit to kill, a beast in CC and can be really good shooting. I have mixed feelings on the Plasma, when you can roll well for how many shots and get more than 1 shot fired, it's pretty good, but I have terrible luck rolling, so usually I get 1 - 2 plasma shots (mostly 1) where the Onslaught cannon is as set # of shots, so I'd say it depends on what you're trying to kill. It's definitely a good unit though. I'll be bringing 2x with Dual Onslaught cannons & Storm Bolters in my list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I did consider taking 3 more Intercessor squads to make another Battalion for more CP, but i really wanted to use the Reiver models as they look amazing and wanted more variety on the field (rule of cool outweighing competativeness there) i am saving 2CP by not having to use the Teleportarium Strat on them as they Grav-Chute in, the Carbines do lack the -1ap which is a shame, but i guess your 'supposed' to use these guys for CC, but Grav-Chuting in at 9" then risking a charge is too dangerous for my taste, if they could throw their Shock Grenades just a little further that would be awesome (if slightly OP) and would definitely give them blades and attempt a charge. Yes the Redemptor Plasma is a little underwhelming but as we all know Deathwatch lacks anti tank (i think someone did the math and with the Gattling cannon doing 12 str5 -1ap shots it has the same average damage output as a D6 str8 -4ap plasma, but i would double check that tho as i doesn't seem right to me on initial glance) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syward Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I did consider taking 3 more Intercessor squads to make another Battalion for more CP, but i really wanted to use the Reiver models as they look amazing and wanted more variety on the field (rule of cool outweighing competativeness there) i am saving 2CP by not having to use the Teleportarium Strat on them as they Grav-Chute in, the Carbines do lack the -1ap which is a shame, but i guess your 'supposed' to use these guys for CC, but Grav-Chuting in at 9" then risking a charge is too dangerous for my taste, if they could throw their Shock Grenades just a little further that would be awesome (if slightly OP) and would definitely give them blades and attempt a charge. Yes the Redemptor Plasma is a little underwhelming but as we all know Deathwatch lacks anti tank (i think someone did the math and with the Gattling cannon doing 12 str5 -1ap shots it has the same average damage output as a D6 str8 -4ap plasma, but i would double check that tho as i doesn't seem right to me on initial glance) Reavers definitely are cool looking units. I've been going back & forth with whether to include them in my DW army or not. Ultimately I decided to make a Revilers army that'll feature them as well as the new vanguard marines. (but after I finish my DW project!) If you're not taking any other anti-tank in your list, then yes, I'd definitely take the Plamsa on the Redemptor, but if you have other AT options, then I'd use the onslaught. My list has 2x TLLC + DCCW w/SB Venerable Dreadnoughts, 4x "Inter-Blaster" Squads, a TDA Smash Capt and 2x TLLC Razorbacks, so for me I've got the AT covered so dual onslaught cannons on my 2 Redemptors for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355192-which-dread-loadout/#findComment-5309837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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