Forging distinct Chosen

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Sception gave me the idea for this thread, and I'm honestly curious. Now that Havocs are only heavy weapon carriers, the cheaper competition for massed special weapon carriers has gone away which leaves Chosen with an actual niche. However, their rules and equipment options pale in comparison to what Veteran Squads get in Imperial Marine armies.

 

Pure wishlisting/brainstorming...what changes, if any, would you make to Chosen Squads to really give them their own identity?

 

 

For my part, I see two avenues which are not mutually exclusive, but don't exactly synergize well with each other. The first is to give them a native infiltration ability. They had this in the much-maligned 4th Edition codex, but rarely saw table time due to the sheer power of Lash Princes with Plague Marine Troops. The second would be a bodyguard ability like what Command Squad models get. The first ability would give us an infiltration unit which we are lacking; the second would fill the role of sniper (and really, I mean Vindicare) defense, and both fit with the Chosen's lore of being the most cunning, skilled, and loyal of a Chaos Lord's retinue.

 

What else can we come up with?

[Slave to Darkness]

Personally I'd be happy with infiltrate, or some form of 'Vet skills' like back in the day, pay points for Infiltrate, Sniper, etc

[Sception]

I'd like to see chosen as a proper bodyguard unit.  Give them a signature rule to transfer hits on nearby characters to the chosen.  Since blocking damage is their role, the warp molds them to be heavier and tougher than other marines, thus armor in the same style as the new havocs with the toughness boost to match.  Maybe instead of ignoring the move & shoot penalty for heavy weapons, they could ignore the -1 to hit penalty for heavy melee weapons like fists & hammers?  I don't know.

 

Then what we currently think of as chosen - elite special weapon squads, would be re-introduced as old school chaos veterans, with infiltrate, maybe even a new chaos version of sniper rifles added to the other special weapon options.

 

On the other hand, something I'd like to see even more than these is an expansion of the daemonic possession theme.  Rework the rules of regular possessed to be a bit more favorable, re-fluff warp talons as jump possessed, maybe add a possessed terminator unit in the style of the apophic blade

 

 

And, of course, what I /most/ want to see in terms of new units in the future is expanded transportation options.  Of course, if these transports are themselves daemonically possessed they can fit into that theme as well.  Imagine a more transport oriented rhino variant as a counterpart to the more shooty oriented loyalist razorback.  Or a possessed chaos landraider variant with increased capacity and some danger to use - ie, every time a unit disembarks you have to roll for casualties as though the tank exploded, but in exchange for every casualty the tank heals a wound, and the unit can disembark after the tank moves instead of having to do so first.  Or maybe just a plastic chaos dreadclaw (not that drop pods are great these days either, but still).

 

 

Another expansion option could be splitting CSM bolter squads and bp/ccwep squads into separate units with separate options and special rules.  Doing so could help solve some of the problems with getting all the basic options into the box while still having room for upgrades.  And it could allow for more variety in basic troops if and when cultists get removed from the CSM army again (they've popped in and out repeatedly over the years), possibly to put them in a separate traitor guard army.

 

 

Lots of room for expanding the basic CSM range, especially once emperor's children & world eaters (& maybe even cultists) get spun out into their own books.  I'm actually pretty happy with the direction the current release wave has taken in terms of aesthetic update, changes to old units, and new units introduced.  It'll probably be a while before we see another update, but I'm looking forward to seeing what we get when we do.

[Panzer]

I'd love for chosen to get something like they used to have in WHFB.

 

 

Chosen of the Dark Gods:

The Chosen are marked by the Dark Gods themselves. Because of the blessings of their patrons, a Chosen unit may roll once on the Eye of the Gods table at the beginning of the battle, re-rolling any 'the Eye is Closed' or 'Insanity!' results until another result is obtained. The result applies to the whole unit.

[Mallios]

 

I'd love for chosen to get something like they used to have in WHFB.

 

 

 

Chosen of the Dark Gods:

The Chosen are marked by the Dark Gods themselves. Because of the blessings of their patrons, a Chosen unit may roll once on the Eye of the Gods table at the beginning of the battle, re-rolling any 'the Eye is Closed' or 'Insanity!' results until another result is obtained. The result applies to the whole unit.

That sounds pretty cool. I think they should make them a little more resilient, and then treat them like Greater Possessed. Deploy them as a unit, but then they are individual units after that. They are supposed to be just a step down from a Lord, right?

[Prot]

I honestly haven't seen a way to make a squad of chosen for my BL that truly would take the place of some of the other 'elite' infantry I have in my list.

 

I've been going through all the formations in games and so far I keep Termies, and Chosen in the back of my mind for those games and I'm trying to find a spot. 

 

Two things I really think GW missed in Vigilus Ablaze: Chosen detachment (Bringers of Despair could have used these guys easily) and a CSM detachment.

[Bryan Blaire]

I’d really like to see the Chosen more like a bodyguard unit, and then have another “Long War Veterans” unit that becomes the special weapons/infiltrate concept. I don’t think I’d want a “random roll” style benefit - unless it was very clear that the benefits are completely different than any others you could get in the army so that there’s no possibility your results overlap something you’ve already built into your army concept.

[Freakshow668]

I'd love to see them be able to take jump packs or bikes, make a real customisable unit, that you can tailor to any army and be a true elite squad. It'd also allow them to be a proper bodyguard or retinue unit for an HQ regardless of how you choose to equip them.

[Panzer]

I'd love to see them be able to take jump packs or bikes, make a real customisable unit, that you can tailor to any army and be a true elite squad. It'd also allow them to be a proper bodyguard or retinue unit for an HQ regardless of how you choose to equip them.

I really don't want to see them with Jump Packs. Just like for the loyalists it would put Raptos in an even worse spot.

[DuskRaider]

No, give them the Jump Pack option as well as TDA. Obviously they'd be more expensive. Give them +1 T, re-roll failed armour tests. The ability to take on special battlefield roles like Sniper, Champion, Weapons Specialist (via options). Chosen should be a foundation with which to build just about anything off of since a Chosen of Chaos can be literally anything. Dual wielding assault specialist to mini-Moritats, elite bodyguard and everything in between.

[Panzer]

I honestly disagree. That kind of customization for Marine units is what makes the inner balance so terrible and creates lots of redundant units. I'm much more a fan of a unit having one or two distinct roles instead of being able to do multiple different things depending on loadout. Making Chosen a fundation for a bunch of different unit types is just making unit types that already exist with regular Chaos Marines as fundation even more redundant.

[Brother Aiwass]

No, give them the Jump Pack option as well as TDA. Obviously they'd be more expensive. Give them +1 T, re-roll failed armour tests. The ability to take on special battlefield roles like Sniper, Champion, Weapons Specialist (via options). Chosen should be a foundation with which to build just about anything off of since a Chosen of Chaos can be literally anything. Dual wielding assault specialist to mini-Moritats, elite bodyguard and everything in between.

Well, back in the fabled times that shouldn't be mentioned, they were exactly like that :)

[DuskRaider]

I know and I miss it :(

 

You know what? Screw it, give Cult Troops the option too. Chosen Berserkers, Chosen Plague Marines, etc...

[Brother Aiwass]

That would be great. Maybe we can have something like that if GW finally releases WE & EC codices.

[RolandTHTG]

Honestly, a second wound. 

 

1) I would create a distinction between them and the basic marines beyond combibolter & chainsword. 

2) It would make the bodyguard suggestion above worth it, as they can have a chance of surviving those transferred wounds

3) It lets them feel elite like terminators, and swollen with the powers of chaos.  

[MegaVolt87]

The unit can already have up to 6 specials/combi weapons, bolter chainsword and pistol, powered melee weapons. If anything there should be some generalist detachment where we can feild them as troops with something like despoilers of the galaxy tacked on. Look, I would love to see vet skills return like the 3.5 glory days or like 30k. That's not the current design though, its stratagems. If anything stratagems like VoTLW should be the vet skill/ rule itself, not dependent on a MP/manna like system to use. Vet skills could be added back in as extra stratagems at best with the current design philosophy. 

[Cheex]

I don't think a "bodyguard" rule would fit Chosen. Chaos background is filled with examples of underlings betraying their masters for their own gain; I don't see someone so close to power being willing to lay down their lives so quickly.

 

Some sort of ability that magnifies the power of a friendly character, maybe. A character within 2" of a Chosen unit adds 6" to the range of its aura abilities (not including psychic powers but including warlord traits), for example. Make Chosen fearless while within 2" of a friendly character, or make the Lord of Chaos ability allow them to reroll all hits rather than just 1s.

 

Another thought is to give them a list of "veteran specialisations" and allow the player to choose one when adding the unit to their roster, like Infiltration or Blood for the Blood God. I'll be honest, I just want Chosen who can represent actual veteran Berzerkers and not be worse than them in combat...

[Midnight Brotherhood]

For just 1pt more than a standard marine I think they are a bargain for the additional access to wargear, better leadership and attacks that they get. Being able to arm them with almost anything is how they should be, you tailor your chosen to the fluff of your legion / renegades. What they really need to just give them that edge is a strategem that is for chosen only, whether that be a modifier to boost their to hit or to wound,or some sort of boon table or maybe an additional stat bump for the turn like +1 strength. Anything really.

[Closet Skeleton]

Terminators are already and always have been chosen.

 

Personally I'd like to see them get a -1 to all cp costs when used on them (minimum 1) or just 1 free cp a turn that can only be spent on them.

[Ardaric Vaanes]

It would be good to be able to make them a Traitor version of the Loyalist Sternguard Veterans since they essentially are. 

 

I'd love to see some specialized ammunition options available 

 

 

Another thought is to give them a list of "veteran specialisations" and allow the player to choose one when adding the unit to their roster, like Infiltration or Blood for the Blood God. I'll be honest, I just want Chosen who can represent actual veteran Berzerkers and not be worse than them in combat...

 

I'd love the idea of veteran Berzerkers, or other cult troops and would probably be willing to pay more pts for too. Not entirely sure what Veteran Rubrics would look like though... 

[DuskRaider]

Extra dusty

[Panzer]

But Rubrics, Berzerker & co already have a veteran profile. :huh:

[DuskRaider]

Make them more veteran-y. Or give them access to other wargear like Jump Packs and TDA or gear they normally wouldn't be able to wield. Doubtful this would ever happen anyhow due to the "no model = no rules" mantra.

[Ardaric Vaanes]

But Rubrics, Berzerker & co already have a veteran profile.

 

Hence the paying more for them

 

In the trail above various people have mentioned making chosen multi-wound to the same tune as Primaris Marines. I'd love for Chosen to become Primaris-esque cult troops with access to special wargear options

 

Not that it will happen, but we can all dream ;)

[ChazSexington]

TDA and jump pack options, Veteran tactics, bodyguard rules. All are good options, but what about...

 

 

CHOOOOOOOM

 

VOLKITE!