Heroes & Villains of the 42 Millennium - Phase I Discussion

[Hrvat]

- first post reserved -

 

 

 

INTRODUCTION TO THE DARKER MILLENNIUM 

 

 

 

 

 

INDEX:

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Hrvat

[Hrvat]

Fratres, salve!

 

 

A few weeks back I got drawn back to 40K after seeing pictures of new Abaddon miniature. Which got me interested in what has happened since I was last up to date around the time 8th edition launched (to be honest I wasn't truly up to date since around the time First Heretic was published nearly a decade ago). So first I went to B&C to see how things are going, followed by raiding my bitz boxes since I got rid of most of my 40K stuff around the time GW blew up WHFB. Before I knew I had a couple of miniatures put together (power armour and xeno) and my painting table had been put to use once more. 

 

Then came what I though would be the fun part, reading background. Oh boy. Getting my hands on all the materials I have missed in the last decade proved tricky not to mention resulting in a rather substantial list of things to read. Achieving that I initiated the first step and that was reading all the 8th edition codici alongside the rulebook and idexes in the order they were released to get myself up to date. In hindsight I probably should have started with The Gathering Storm (currently reading the first book). 

 

So two weeks later and god knows how many pages of text later I am a bit overwhelmed and underwhelmed at the same time trying to wrap my head around the new setting with Primaris Marines and Primarchs running around and where all my previous creations fit in this new constellation of things. 

 

I will be 33 later this month and I now fully understand the slogan I saw online "This is not your dad's 40K!". The current setting is greatly expanded from the one I started with more than two decades ago but at the same time it feels sooooo much smaller. The scale of occurring events has been increased yet the galaxy feels cramped. The passage of time has become nearly meaningless. To be honest things have been deteriorating from the perspective of time and scale since the second half of the 3rd edition but the new background had completely broke it for me. The already tenuous suspension of disbelief which existed in 40K had been completely throw out of the window. 

 

I am not completely against the concepts that have been added to the setting recently or the outright retcons which had occurred over the last decade - newcrons, 100K legions, grey knights nonsense, horus heresy unveiled, two dozen hive fleets and many more - but I have issues with how the introduction of these novelties was executed. 

 

If you have read so far you might be thinking "Ok Hrvat where is this stream of thought going?" and you would be right to think that. 

 

I intend to use this topic to try and produce elements of my own 40K head canon which includes some or even most of the newly introduced elements but in a way that is fitting to the setting that attracted me to 40K all those years ago. In addition to writing amends to the general setting (not that dissimilar in intention to alternate heresy which was produced by this very forum) I will be developing backgrounds for my own miniature collections to use in this new setting.

 

 

So I wish you all welcome to the DARKER MILLENNIUM :)

 

 

 

 

First thing I would like to discuss in a bit more detail as I prepare my notes on general setting is some additional information on Primaris Marines. Beyond what is said in the Rulebook and C:SM is there any other source of information like a White Dwarf article or something? Also is there anything important in the Dark Millennium novel that cannot be found out from online summaries? And final question - how do Chapters with unknown Primarchs produce Primaris Marines since prior to 8th Ed Imperium did not have the ability to discern geneseed based on genetic testing. Or am I to assume all such Chapters are covered by the 6% which did not accept Primaris.

 

 

 

 

Ok that is it from me for now. I am looking forward to discussing with you and hopefully entertain you with what I produce. 

 

Cheers 

[Dizzyeye01]

If you're looking for a quick grab, you can find the Vanguard Space Marine book for Shadowspear on ebay which delves more into a sub formation of Primaris Space Marines that isn't coverd in the Codex. Also, within the Spears of the Emperor book by ADB we learn that not every chapter was given a Primaris Rienforcement who were ready to change colours. Instead they had the arrival of Custodes who gave them the knowledge and technology to make Primaris and then told to do it themselves so most likely that was the case for some of the unknown Primarch chapters. Finally, if you're talking about the Dark Millennium book then while it does touch upon how the Greyshields/Unnumbered Sons and how they operated which is cool alongside how Guiliman is running the Imperium. Apart from that, there's nothing really else I would say comes up though I would recommend reading it if you can. It is a good book to read through.

[Hrvat]

Thank you. 

 

 

A follow up question. 

 

When you say knowledge and technology what does that exactly means or is the book vague?

 

 

I am asking because each SM organ has a corresponding zygote in the progenoid gland that needs to mature by absorbing data from fully functioning organs. We also know that each Primarch gene line has their own unique sets of organs. This would lead to a conclusion that Primaris marines have a completely new progenoid gland which includes three new zygotes or that the new organs are universal. The first conclusion does not solve the problem with Chapters whose Primogenitor is unknown while the second makes inclusion of references that material from all the 20 Primarchs was needed to create the new sets of organs sort of unnecessary. 

 

 

 

Cheers 

[Dizzyeye01]

By technology and knowledge, I mean more the equipment and the knowledge to use them to create the new organs that the Primaris have and that the original space marines don't have. Just to clarify, the Emperor didn't set out to give each Space Marine legion their own unique set of organs. Technically, all Space marines no matter where their geneseed came from in terms of primarch would of had all the same organs any other would have; it's just that some geneseed have led to some organs either being missing or don't work as well. That's where differences come into play. That's not even to say each geneseed from say the Imperial Fists are the same in each successor chapter. It's possible that a successor chapters' own geneseed has degraded even further one way or the other.

 

As for whether there being a new progenoid gland due to the organs, looking at page 10 in C:SM reads that Cawl created the Primaris through  "...are implanted with a further three additional organs." which implies to me that the Primaris organs are addons meant to work alongside the original organs. So I feel like the second conclusion you have is the right one.

 

In terms of the data records of the Primarchs being unnecessary though I'm unsure where you're going with this? To me it makes sense as space marines are meant to turn humans into beings closer to the primarchs. The device in question meant that a closer look could be given towards the original research which could draw more conclusions on how the primarch was made and lay down more options on how to get Spaces Marines to be closer to Primarchs. 

[Hrvat]

 Just to clarify, the Emperor didn't set out to give each Space Marine legion their own unique set of organs. Technically, all Space marines no matter where their geneseed came from in terms of primarch would of had all the same organs any other would have; it's just that some geneseed have led to some organs either being missing or don't work as well. 

 

Is this part of the new background? Can you please point me in the direction where it was released because I have spent last few days searching in vain.

 

As per the older background (2011 and before) each Space Marine bloodline has a unique set of organs. That does not mean they differ physiologically merely genetically. Each of the original 19 organs was created from the tissue of the corresponding primarch and the organs they possessed. It was through these organs that original (and later) space marines inherited the geneseed of their Primarch and why upon implantation some would start to morph into the likeness of their progenitor. 

 

 

 

Though re-reading older material did answer to me at least the question on the progenoid gland. Addition of the three new organs would not require a new progenoid gland to be created because the gland as is already serves the purpose and would absorb the genetic material of the three new organs alongside the existing ones and form zygotes for the growth of fresh new organs. 

 

 

Cheers :)

[Beta galactosidase]

Yes, each chapter inevitably has its own version of the organs on a molecular level. Almost every organ operates using concentration gradients controlled by gated ion channels and protein pumps in its cell walls. For one primarch’s geneseed there would be lots of these pumps in a cell, for some fewer, for some they would be sensitive to one level of signal, and for some a higher one and they’d have different levels of effectiveness. There’d be scores of ways for them to vary for each organ. There are also protein pathways that produce the same protein through different intermediates, for example during blood clotting or digesting specific things like lactose sugar.

 

If you put an oolitic kidney, a multi-lung and a progenoid from three different primarchs in one marine, it’d be common for them to produce signal proteins at a given level but trigger their intended response with a very different duration or sensitivity than if they had all been from the same primarch. This is what account for differences between chapters, eg growth rates, coloration, other organ functions.

 

Now the old background was that each individual chapter had isolated gene seed. Chapters from the same primarch have clear relation to each other and some of their molecular processes would be interchangeable, but other molecular characteristics would have started out differently by design, when the magi biologicae? Selected the original zygote specimens to duplicate for the chapter.

 

For the primaris organs added to oldmarine chapters it seems like having the same primarch is close enough.