The Siege of Terra: The Lost and the Damned

[b1soul]

A pretty large portion of the SoH are corrupt...yes, no？

[bluntblade]

Not that we've really seen. They're using Chaotic things, but not worshipping. Edited October 18, 2019 by bluntblade

[Blindhamster]

The mere fact or using the stuff warps them and changes them.

[Marshal Rohr]

The closer to the Warmaster someone is, relationship wise, the more corruption they're exposed to. The vast majority of the legion will not be like the possessed. Abaddon and the Justaerin are still corruption free. 

[Carach]

i assume because their loyalty and ideals are with the warmaster. He is their point of worship. Not the 'gods'

[b1soul]

Not seeing that big of a difference between Siege-period SoH and 40K Black Legion. Abaddon in 40K doesn't worship Chaos either. It's still a bunch of dudes using Chaos to their advantage while claiming they're not under it's sway.

[Moonreaper666]

Not seeing that big of a difference between Siege-period SoH and 40K Black Legion. Abaddon in 40K doesn't worship Chaos either. It's still a bunch of dudes using Chaos to their advantage while claiming they're not under it's sway.

Most of the SoH haven't been blessed by the Dark Gods. When the Death Guard came to Terra, the stench was too much for them

 

Horus, Laylak and Abaddon were fine around them. Laylak told Abaddon that he was already blessed by the Gods at this point

[Marshal Loss]

In both the original IA era lore & the newer FW & BL texts, the SoH largely viewed the powers that be in the warp as tools. Horus is the focus of a cult of personality and you can see this reflected in their actions after his death. Comparisons between the Black Legion & SoH don't really work because those two organizations are not at all the same thing.

 

Somewhat of a digression: whether you call them corrupted or blessed at the time of Terra largely depends on your definition of both terms, but it doesn't really matter whether the bulk of the Legion actively worships the dark gods or not. They may not be directly under the thrall of a single power like the EC/WE/DG/TS are, but when you've got glowing daemon runes on your ships (with the VS obviously being in a league of its own) and armour, the largest possessed corps outside of the Word Bearers, institutionalized warp sorcery among your leadership and an ongoing collaboration with warp cults again second only to the XVII (HH: Conquest & Tempest), you're pretty far down the path to glory already and I don't think we can confidently assert that even an institution like the Justaerin was corruption free (see their appearance in Path of Heaven). The SoH were enthusiastic in their embrace of the warp's gifts as early as Isstvan V, just look at their reaction to the first Gal Vorbak.

 

But you also have a solid core of the Legion that maintains their professionalism, exemplars of this approach including Aximand & Tybalt Marr. In any case Slaves to Darkness makes clear that intentions matter very little when it comes to Chaos, and it also shows that there is a deep divide in the Legion between those who have embraced Chaos more fully & the traditionalists whose only concern is the primacy of the Warmaster.

 

Long story short, situation = complicated, but I expect the SoH to be in pretty deep by Terra, albeit with their wits largely held together by their Horus worship. The moment he dies the factionalism buried by his rule is going to burst into the open.

[MegaVolt87]

In both the original IA era lore & the newer FW & BL texts, the SoH largely viewed the powers that be in the warp as tools. Horus is the focus of a cult of personality and you can see this reflected in their actions after his death. Comparisons between the Black Legion & SoH don't really work because those two organizations are not at all the same thing.

 

Somewhat of a digression: whether you call them corrupted or blessed at the time of Terra largely depends on your definition of both terms, but it doesn't really matter whether the bulk of the Legion actively worships the dark gods or not. They may not be directly under the thrall of a single power like the EC/WE/DG/TS are, but when you've got glowing daemon runes on your ships (with the VS obviously being in a league of its own) and armour, the largest possessed corps outside of the Word Bearers, institutionalized warp sorcery among your leadership and an ongoing collaboration with warp cults again second only to the XVII (HH: Conquest & Tempest), you're pretty far down the path to glory already and I don't think we can confidently assert that even an institution like the Justaerin was corruption free (see their appearance in Path of Heaven). The SoH were enthusiastic in their embrace of the warp's gifts as early as Isstvan V, just look at their reaction to the first Gal Vorbak.

 

But you also have a solid core of the Legion that maintains their professionalism, exemplars of this approach including Aximand & Tybalt Marr. In any case Slaves to Darkness makes clear that intentions matter very little when it comes to Chaos, and it also shows that there is a deep divide in the Legion between those who have embraced Chaos more fully & the traditionalists whose only concern is the primacy of the Warmaster.

 

Long story short, situation = complicated, but I expect the SoH to be in pretty deep by Terra, albeit with their wits largely held together by their Horus worship. The moment he dies the factionalism buried by his rule is going to burst into the open.

 

In the last remembrancer short story, the strike cruiser and its SoH legionaries who went to Sol were described in such a way as to be indistinguishable from the modern BL in 40K. Its interesting how Horus endorses factionalism to continue to rule his legion post Istvann V. I think this was forced due to the fact that the legionaries abandoned their oath to the Emperor, why not to their primarchs in favour to their leaders? Traditional legion command with the traitors doesn't seem viable at that point. Chaos is a lack of traditional advanced civilization, so you need something more low spec like warlord/ oathed chiefs, where strength and material prowess rule. 

[Knockagh]

 

This is why I usually only listen to audio books as a second read for books I’ve throughly enjoyed. A second read can cope with the occasional mind walk. Audio can be excellent for a second read.

Very difficult if not impossible to find enough time to focus completely on an audio book. A half hour podcast can be ok but a 10 hour (plus) book I find to be nigh on impossible.

[DarkChaplain]

It's honestly a matter of practice, and choosing the right activities to pursue while listening. Painting is a good one, as are simple puzzle or card games that you can confidently play with your brain off. I also enjoy them while doing housework, cooking or the likes, though it can be tricky with other background noise going on. You'll probably still want the occasional rewind, but then again, you'll probably get distracted by something while reading a print or ebook at some point as well, and have to do a double-take on a paragraph. Personally, audiobooks are especially useful while on the train, because even just stuff like somebody in your compartment getting up can throw you off your read, forcing you to put the book up or somesuch. No such issue with audiobooks, and you can keep your eyes open and not miss your stop either!

 

It really comes down to getting used to it and adjusting to the difference in medium over a range of styles, narrators and subject matter. What I'm having more trouble with these days are Black Library's audio dramas without actual narrators, and only implied actions happening. The first 10-15 minutes can often be tricky to stay invested in without having to rewind or confusing characters. It's an issue I can't say I've had before they de-emphasized narration in recent years.

[Kelborn]

We went a bit off with this one.

 

Please let's stick with the Siege. :)

[Roomsky]

The Lost and the Damned – Guy Haley

 

Well, it’s no Solar War, but I actually liked this quite a bit; it’s definitely in the running for my favourite Guy Haley piece. As always, the pacing is excellent and the storytelling at large is solid. As with Curze, his writing style is more bearable than works like Wolfsbane or Cawl, and his primarch interactions have picked up from that book as well, albeit barely. I did think it was a little confused, however, for reasons I’ll discuss below:

 

There’s a weird phenomenon in this book. Katsuhiro, our human protagonist, is himself fairly well written, and his sections are far and away the best. Much as he’s better suited towards humans than primarchs, I was admittedly a bit skeptical about Haley’s use of a conscript with no knowledge of the wider battle as a main character in a book about the Siege of Terra. I certainly needn’t have worried about the quality. Katsuhiro’s sections of the book are evocative, and occasionally horrifying. From descriptions of the blood and ash rain, to his watching comrades suffocate in obfuscating fog, even to Sanguinius descending from the walls to improve morale, all of this combines into a sobering look at the consequences of this war between demigods the series should have possessed from the start.

 

On the other hand: it’s the Siege of Terra, and much as I like smaller scale stuff, it’s hard not to give most of your attention to the primarchs. This is an issue because Haley’s evil twin brother who is completely inept at writing primarch interaction takes over for these sections, especially for the traitors. Perturabo is a gullible fool. Fulgrim is a stereotype. Angron is bizarrely played for comedy, because now is really when we want to undercut the tragedy of his arc, right guys? Of the heels of Solar War, all the characters have suddenly become stripped down, and it’s frustrating because they get the more interesting scenes. I really enjoyed reading the traitors try to figure a way around the Emperor’s holy soil, and I liked the loyalists debating how humanitarian they can afford to be considering their circumstances. What we’re left with are evocative drudgery for Katsuhiro and poorly written but engaging material with the primarchs. It makes everything a sort of net positive, but a very bizarre one. That said, if you tolerated Wolfsbane you'll be able to tolerate this, it is better, if only by a little. His Horus is certainly a bit more bearable.

 

I have to give a lot of credit that despite my issues, and how little of the campaign the book covers, it doesn’t feel like filler. The writing has a good momentum and you get to see enough key characters at work to make everything feel important.  This is helped by a willingness to murder POV characters, and that a few story arcs get wrapped up nicely, the highlight being Skraivok’s fate worse than death at the hands of a Raldoran who is no doubt elated he finally got to do something.

 

The book was written like a first entry into the series, which is strange for obvious reasons. Characters monologue recaps and “as-you-knows” left and right, something the Solar War scarcely bothered with, and it ranges from tolerable to annoyingly in your face cough-cough-Abaddon-cough. It's good to recap considering the byzantine continuity their working with, but why is it all here?

 

All in all, a solid read that benefits as much as it suffers from Haley's pen. The care put into the Siege series is at least apparent, I think it's definitely his best written entry into the Heresy.

 

TL:DR It was pretty decent

ANR: 7/10

[The_son_of_Dorn]

It's like being hungry and getting a decent meal but with top end ingredients that aren't quite done right.

 

Edit: To compliment the above post i agree. Its a shame because the potential was there. Just needed to be chopped up right

Edited October 21, 2019 by The_son_of_Dorn

[SkimaskMohawk]

It feels really odd seeing how the (especially traitor) primarchs interact with each other and then to realise that he wrote some of the best books in the primarch series, especially perturabo. Edited October 21, 2019 by SkimaskMohawk

[Marshal Loss]

Definitely liked it a bit less than you, but agree with all the points in that summary for sure (& Skimask's above comment). Haley's evil-twin brother being responsible for the wildly varying quality of his writing is something I will come back to in the future. :P

[Marshal Rohr]

That scene alone was my biggest pet peeve of the Novel because it was so disjointed from all the other interactions Horus and Perturabo have had. It was like neither of the remembered talking to each other in the past ten books. The very fact Aximand led the outer push with Perturabo means the two Primarchs would’ve had to be coordinating and meticulously planning together all the way to Terra after Ullanor. Edited October 22, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Marshal Loss]

Totally agree. It was so jarring seeing Haley's mewling creature after being given a masterclass in badassery from French in Solar War:

 

‘So many battlefields,’ said Perturabo, staring directly at the distant dot of brilliance. ‘So much blood and iron poured down into the earth to earn our place here…’ The Lord of Iron’s eyes seemed black in the pale glare, his armour slick with cold shadow. ‘We are coming, my brother. We are coming, my father. We have returned…’ He turned to Forrix. The coldness had gone from his eyes. Fire caught in their depths, and the edges of his exo-plates gleamed in the distant sunlight and made him seem skinned in blades and shadow. ‘Give the order. Launch for Jupiter.’

 

Goddamn I love that scene. Nerd chills

Edited October 22, 2019 by Marshal Loss

[Ascanius]

I enjoyed the story, though I have my quibbles with some of the dialogue, as others have said.

 

I would, however, do a find-and-replace to swap "Maximus Thane" for "Oriax Dantalion", just to resolve that little bit of conflict. As far as I know, Dantalion hasn't shown up anywhere else in the Horus Heresy series.

[Blindhamster]

The raldaron scenes were good. I also liked the loyalist primarch scenes for the most part.

 

It was only really some of the traitor ones that felt off. But still, an enjoyable book imo.

[rookie40K]

After reading a fair share of negative reviews, I was not really looking forward to this book. That, and I personally wasn’t looking forward to a focus on regular humans. I have to say I really liked the book a lot. There is plenty of Primarch and space marine focus that I didn’t expect.

 

The only part I did not like was the part when Dorn acted surprised about someone’s return, when he already knew about it. Not focusing on that oversight, I thought the book was very enjoyable and entertaining.

Edited October 27, 2019 by rookie40K

[Noserenda]

Ripped through my copy and loved it :) Given it was literally the last thing i read i find it pretty funny how many "questions" from here are directly addressed in the afterword too :D 

[Ascanius]

No afterword to the audiobook!

[DarkChaplain]

Did they finally fix the audiobook?

[Ascanius]

There wasn't an issue with mine that I noticed.

Edit: I just checked Predator, Prey and Maximus Thane is definitely not a Heresy veteran:

 

Maximus Thane allowed his mind to drift back to Charnassica. To that first day, stepping off the Thunderhawk ramp and into the blood-slick earth of conquest. He remembered his young body, the power and possibilities it offered. He relived the rawness of his black carapace and the sting of his interface plugs. He ached with the presence of the Emperor in his hearts, the nearness of the enemy, the imminence of his first kill, the cold beauty of battle into which he had been dropped. He had been a full brother of the Fists Exemplar mere days, yet there he was – a living, breathing instrument of the Emperor’s will.

 

So, yeah, I'd either replace his name with Oriax Dantalion or retcon it that all Fists Exemplar rename themselves after members of the Exemplar chapter of the Imperial Fists Legion that preceded them.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Ascanius