Some reflections on Malevolence, BA fluff and 40k

[Arkangilos]

Also keep in mind who is telling the history. It’s likely the Apothecaries would not openly call themselves priests until the Imperial Truth was gone for good.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

Aren't they called Apothecaries by narrator in Ruinstorm? SW Priests and WS Stormseers kept their titles and ostentatiously displayed traditional rituals and "superstitions" - even if BA were not recluses like these two chapters, it does not seem probable to me that they would pay greater attention than their brothers if it was only about the name. Besides, the name itself should be just as controversial during the rise of Ecclesiarchy and cult of the Emperor.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have to disagree there.

[Xenith]

Thanks for the review, glad I waited to read this til I had my own copy. 

 

Few comments on your review:

 

1) Sissy/Emo characterisation.

I don't know if calling someone undergoing trauma/stress should be called a sissy/emo. Would you say a modern soldier undergoing PTSD was a sissy? That it becomes too much for Him is evidence for his enhanced humanity. To me the blunt sissy/emo name calling comes from the same place as the Failbaddon meme, where people make a snap characterisation based on a miscomprehended concept, then make up something that sounds funny.

 

2) Black/Saltires

Vengeful spirit has the BA consigning themselves to death have a ritual fire then coat themselves in the ashes. Seems to be a Baal thing. Burning the dead is commonplace. Destroyers are essentialy consigned to death in most legions, and their armour is blackened from the weapons they wield. It's a theme. I believe Deathwing ritually coated their armour in the ashes of their homeworld as a funeral rite before the 'stealer cult cleansing also? Unsure why Dark Angels ash is white and Blood Angel ash is black, though. 

 

3) Omaphagaea/whatever. I really liked this aspect. I always wondered why it wasn't common for marines to drink the commanders blood. This also ties together other plot threads such as other marines thinking they're Alpharius when they drink his blood, and why Blood Angels think they're Sanguinius when they drink the blood of Sanguinius (via priests) - taken from his dead body after he was killed by Horus. That memory is gene coded into Sangy's dying cells, brought to life via the priests, then the marines drink this blood and go into the sarcophagi having horrific nightmares. 

[Vermintide]

I seem to be in a minority, of the opinion that the weakness of HH and BL material as a whole is that it over-explains too many things that should have been left as very vague and mysterious background elements in the setting. If there's one thing worse than not knowing the answer to a question, it's having the answer be disappointing.
 

 

Today’s fluff gives Red Thirst as the more widespread part of the Flaw, while in 2^nd and 3^rd ed it was confined  IIRC, in 3^rd ed rules Black Rage was the army rule and RT the DC special rule, while today Red Thirst is the army rule.

 

 

I think it's safest to assume they are different names for the same thing, essentially. 3rd ed book doesn't mention the red thirst at all- Black Rage is the army wide rule, and it affects every Blood Angel, while DC marines are simply those who have fully succumb to it beyond the point of saviour. I've always thought it's implied that those rituals and prayers on the eve of battle only provoke marines to succumb to the rage earlier than they might have done otherwise.

[Leonaides]

Vermintide - those rituals are aimed at delaying/preventing the onset of the Rage rather than triggering it. A lot of the thigns the Angles do are at least partially aimed at reducing the impact of the rage, since it causes the end (one way or another) of the afflicted marine who might otherwise have gone on to to more on other battlefields.

[Vermintide]

Vermintide - those rituals are aimed at delaying/preventing the onset of the Rage rather than triggering it. A lot of the thigns the Angles do are at least partially aimed at reducing the impact of the rage, since it causes the end (one way or another) of the afflicted marine who might otherwise have gone on to to more on other battlefields.

 

I guess that does make sense, actually... I'd never even considered that. But the way it's written always makes it sound like the intensity of the prayer and meditation just causes some kind of overwhelming emotion and the onset of psychosis in some of them. In the grim darkness of 40k I kinda figured the chaplains take a kind of pride in bestowing the gift of Sanguinius. It's certainly open to interpretation though :)

[The Unseen]

It always came across to me, that the "Mass of Doom" that the chaplains speak before battle just causes the marines who *would* have lost control in the upcoming battle to do so earlier in a controlled setting, so they could be given the proper rites and paint their armor, and also let the chaplains do their best to direct the marines fury.

 

Having random marines suddenly start hallucinating midway through a battle and breaking ranks is much harder to deal with strategically than aiming a squad of them in a general direction.

 

It explains how the marines in the Death Company find the time to end up together in black armor, when their supposed to be near stark raving mad trying to get to grips with the enemy.

[Spagunk]

It's been mentioned in the various fluff pieces (BL books, codexes etc.) that not everyone see's themselves as Sanguinius. So I think there is much more involved than just a general psychic memory. My take is that this means that the geneseed itself is broadcasting some experience based on what the original holder experienced when in black rage mode. So like some people recall keys from siege of terra or on Horus' ship which may indicate that their affliction was imprinted from warriors who were mucking about at certain points. I suspect people who see themselves as sanguinius may have had gene seeds that were directly linked to Sanguinius himself somehow. There is still a lot unknown about the everyday workings of BA (to which I am a little upset about) that I feel were omitted for the sake of time/effort. Priests are probably part of that circumstance which may explain their omission. 

I feel like Red Thirst, on the other hand, is a trait of the gene seed rather than anything specifically bestowed by Sanguinius himself. The fact that they were nothing more than butchers prior to Sanguinius takes over means it was always there. Black Rage, however, just seems like an additional flaw that was rooted in the initial Red Thirst flaw but is a different affliction.

Perhaps during Siege of Terra they can revisit BA apothecary units and possibly what blood chalices were. It would be neato cool to have that as a wargear option for general BA Apothecary with a blurb about how they work. In that hypothetical scenario they could explained that the grails are similar to the psychic crystals used in force weapons. So ideally you can have Apothecarion units in a BA army buy a chalice for X pts and choose some aspect of Sanguinius (+1 Ini on the charge or +1 atk on the charge like in Sangy's Sire of the BA rule, additional advance/charge range etc.). Obviously it should not stack with the actual Sire of the Blood Angel rule.

[Leonaides]

That difference in the associated visions works well when you relate it to the fact the blood angels had to reconstitite their gene bank and implants from sangs dead body so some marines geneseed was literally sanguinius during the siege and fight with horus.

 

And the death company are not all slathering maniacs. Most probably are recognised in plenty of time for their armour to be painted and for them to select their prefered weaponry. The point of the mass of doom is one last chance for the ones struggling the most to beat it back- if they cannot then they are taken by the chaplains and inducted into the dc. They are probably still lucid enough, at least in patches, to be aware of what is happening to them and then they will probably let loose knowing thats their last best chance to die well.

[Majkhel]

It was mentioned in the Devastation of Baal, I think, that during the Moripatris, afflicted marines would be taken away and armored later. So I guess, if they were restrained and handled correctly (and the Chapter after so many millenia of experience would have proper devices and processes devised and on hand) armor could be repainted by chapter serfs quite easily. 

[noigrim]

Yea the legion was dying before the primarch showed up trope is more than a cliche by now

[Arkangilos]

Yea the legion was dying before the primarch showed up trope is more than a cliche by now

And why wouldn’t they? They were literally designed to be with their primarchs. If the primarchs are stolen they aren’t working as designed and so it makes sense.

[Hrvat]

Finally got the chance to read the book for myself and oh boy I really dig this new addition to the BA lore. 

 

As I was reading it a thought kept coming back to me. The tripple T force aka The Terrible Trio. Just imagining a combo force of pre-primarch VIII, IX and XIX legions sent a shiver down my spine.

[Cleon]

I had a chance to skim through a friends copy (I'm not committed to tooling up to play HH yet), I couldn't see anything that gave any real notes towards how FW see the Heresy BA looking - do support squads have blue helms, Terminators black gloves etc. Really there was just the one odd silver helmed guy and not many colour plates at all - Is there anything hidden away I missed?

[Panzer]

Doesn't seem like you're missing anything. FW simply didn't bother with it.

[Ironandforge]

I had a chance to skim through a friends copy (I'm not committed to tooling up to play HH yet), I couldn't see anything that gave any real notes towards how FW see the Heresy BA looking - do support squads have blue helms, Terminators black gloves etc. Really there was just the one odd silver helmed guy and not many colour plates at all - Is there anything hidden away I missed?

I am tooled up for 30k and the lack of color plates was terrible.  also the lack of descriptions,   i really want to paint up some dawn breakers but how did they paint their armour.  it seems like FW bailed on doing lots of color plates after book 2 or 3.  i find that really disappointing.  

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

I had a chance to skim through a friends copy (I'm not committed to tooling up to play HH yet), I couldn't see anything that gave any real notes towards how FW see the Heresy BA looking - do support squads have blue helms, Terminators black gloves etc. Really there was just the one odd silver helmed guy and not many colour plates at all - Is there anything hidden away I missed?

 

If the new Signus diorama can be any hint, everyone has red helmets - i.e. no special colors depending on the battlefield role. However, if you look closely on the monochrome background pictures in Malevolence, there is a very old one with mk V assault squad with yellow helmets (i think it has been already used in Retribution).