Fighting Tau

[Doom Herald]

I'm going to be playing a 2k point game with an old friend in a week or 2. The thing is, he plays Tau and I have, as Tzeentch would have it, never played against Tau (they aren't a popular army locally). Any advice for facing down Tau? I plan on using Night Lords and Crimson slaughter because that's my flavor. It's a friendly game, but I don't want to be obliterated because I have no idea what's coming. He generally uses Kroot hounds, ghost keel, firewarriors, vespids, and hammerheads. But, I don't know what his army combustion will be for this.

[Tallarn Commander]

I've only played one game against Tau. I managed a win by running 60+ Renegades and Heretics horde militia up the center. I also deep-struck with 2 melta Raptor squads on his right flank. And I manuevered 20 CSM in Rhinos, a Maulerfiend, and some characters up his left flank. My assault elemets were my true damage dealers as he shot my Militia and Raptors down with ease.

 

I also weakened his large robots with ranged lascannon fire from a 10 man CSM squads and a couple of Disciple squads and I dealt consistent damage with a couple of Earthshaker Carriages.

 

Basically I was fortunate enough to actually reach his left flank with assault troops supported by characters and a firebase.

 

Although personally I think I pretty much won because of the dice. :)

[micahwc]

Is it raptors or warp talons that ignore overwatch when they arrive via deepstrike, and with a host raptorial warlord can add 2 to their charge rolls?

 

Those would be helpful.

[Dumah]

Is it raptors or warp talons that ignore overwatch when they arrive via deepstrike, and with a host raptorial warlord can add 2 to their charge rolls?

 

Those would be helpful.

 

Warp Talons.

[Doom Herald]

He mentioned something about being able to shoot deepstrikers when they arrive.

 

How hard do Kroot hit Astartes? He uses a shaper and some other buffing character. I was thinking I might try a gunline of chosen with combis or CSM (with bolter discipline) to break the Kroot assault, assisted by a second rank of Berzerkers to finish what's left. I figure I can't outshoot most of the rest of Tau. Is it even worth trying to have heavy ranged weapons, or is it better to focus on getting melee hitters in close to wreck them? AP wise, would possessed w/ a greater possessed suffice, or do I need better AP?

[Doom Herald]

Currently, I think will use Noise Marines with bolters to counter the Kroot, plus Music of the Apocolypse to fling grenades with models lost to overwatch.

 

Because I'm doing Crimson Slaughter [CS] with Night Lords [NL], I'm going to run a Night Lords Nurgle Possessed Horde with a greater possessed, plus an Apostle and Nurgle Sorcerer inside the blob. NL strats for -1 to be hit, Apostle Prayer and Nurgle power for a further -1 to be hit each. Potential -3 to be hit, vs Tau making them near unshootable. Further, I have the option of the CS strat giving a further -1 if needed.

 

I think I'm going to make my Crimson Slaughter dettachment my CP battery. I have 2k points to spend so I'm not sure how to use the rest just yet.

[RolandTHTG]

Here's a similar topic I started in January (before the new codex and units)

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353469-tactics-vs-tau/?do=findComment&comment=5244208

[Trevak Dal]

Trying to outshoot Tau is like trying to outshoot guard, it's not really doable. The ghostkeel is going to be a problem creating a better coversave for his guys behind it (until the drones are gone).

 

Utilizing the nu Bolter rules with Not Terminators, or bikes requires you to cede movement.

 

Kroot are cultists that hit and shoot at s4. You can horde them up. They also got kroot hounds which can be fast and nasty. The shaper isn't great for what they offer (hopefully they get a dark apostle style relook)

[Panzer]

He mentioned something about being able to shoot deepstrikers when they arrive.

 

How hard do Kroot hit Astartes? He uses a shaper and some other buffing character. I was thinking I might try a gunline of chosen with combis or CSM (with bolter discipline) to break the Kroot assault, assisted by a second rank of Berzerkers to finish what's left. I figure I can't outshoot most of the rest of Tau. Is it even worth trying to have heavy ranged weapons, or is it better to focus on getting melee hitters in close to wreck them? AP wise, would possessed w/ a greater possessed suffice, or do I need better AP?

 

If he does that then you don't have much to worry about. To be able to shoot units that come in from reserves T'au must use up a support system slot on a battlesuit which means he isn't taking more useful options and in case of Crisis and Commanders it means he's taking one weapon less. Oh and they'd get -1 to-hit so they'd hit units coming from reserves only on 5+.

 

A shaper is pretty much just a worse Ethereal. Instead of letting every T'au unit in 6" use the Ethereals LD of 9 for Morale tests and giving infantry and battlesuit units in 6" either a 6+++, re-roll 1s to hit when stationary, -1 for Morale tests or re-roll advace rolls the Shaper just lets Kroot in 6" use his LD of 7 for Morale tests and lets Kroot units in 6" re-roll wound rolls of 1.

Kroot are super squishy at T3 Sv6+ LD6 so just shoot some random bolter at them and watch the unit melt. Offensively they only have a Bolter and a single S4 AP0 D1 attack in melee so nothing to worry about, really.

They are cheap at 5ppm but ultimately worse than Firewarriors (bigger min size unit so they are no good for cheap CP, worse weapon, worse save, WAY less support from the rest of the codex).

 

You can't outshoot a proper T'au list with CSM but it doesn't seem he's going for a competetive list so theoretically it's possible. But even if it's not possible it's not a good idea to go completely without shooting. Marines are a mixed army and you need to utilize each phase to get the best out of them.

 

If he thinks about using Kroot, Shaper and the anti-reserves support system then you really don't have to worry a whole lot about the matchup as he's clearly playing a super casual list. Just take what you like and be aware of the fact that Drones are the best bodyguards in the game. They can soak up shots you target at any infantry or battlesuit and convert the whole wound into a single mortal wound so your Lascannon will on a roll of 2+ only kill a single drone no matter how much damage you would've rolled.

 

EDIT:

He generally uses Kroot hounds, ghost keel, firewarriors, vespids, and hammerheads. But, I don't know what his army combustion will be for this.

 

Kroot hounds are fast at M12 and a potential re-roll for charge rolls (if the targeted unit got damaged the turn they charge) but die just as quickly as Kroot. They also don't do a whole lot of damage with their two attacks at S3 AP-1 D1.

 

Ghostkeels are a bit tricky but not a huge problem if you know what to do. So what you need to know is the following:

• they apply a -1 to-hit modifier at 6" or more (so you have to get real close)
• their Stealth drones apply another -1 to-hit modifier against shooting without range requirement but have to be within 3" to the Ghostkeel (this counts for themselves as well)
• you can target the Stealth drones just fine as they don't have the character keyword or special rule that would prevent it
• they can infiltrate but have to stay more than 12" away from any enemy unit or the enemy deployment zone

Other than that they only have T6 W10 (so a degrading profile!) and Sv3+. Weapon-wise they are usually played with the Cyclic Ion Raker since the other weapon is just a glorified Fusion Blaster (their 18" Melta) with 1d3 shots. The CIR pours out 6 S7 AP-1 D1 shots at 24" and can get overcharged to S8 AP-1 D1d3. Additionally it has a pair of secondary weapons which are either two flamer, two Fusion Blaster or two Burst Cannons (4 S5 AP0 D1 shots each).

Keep in mind that a Ghostkeel, just like any T'au unit that's not a character or a Hammerhead, has only BS4+ though.

He can also get two support systems which are usually the Target Lock so it can move&shoot without penalty for its main weapon and then either ATS (Advanced Targeting System) to improve its weapons AP by 1 or Shield Generator for a 4++. If he takes any other support system he's just gimping himself and you should consider yourself lucky.

 

Firewarriors are the staple unit of T'au. Troops with a min size of 5 so they can fill their Battalions with cheap 35p Troop units, a 30" Rapid fire 1 S5 AP0 D1 rifle, Sv4+, LD7 and an ability to automatically pass Morale tests on a 6 (that's an ability every T'au unit that's not an auxilliary unit like Kroot has btw!). They can also take a DS8 turret with either a Missile Pod for 36" Assault2 S7 AP-1 D1d3 or a Smart Missile System for 30" Heavy4 S5 AP0 D1 ignore cover and no LoS requirement. However the turret can't move and gets removed if the parent unit moves out of coherency with it.

Be aware if he has a Fireblade (HQ) in his list as he has an aura that gives each of them an additional shot at half range (so a unit with 10 models would have 30 shots at 15").

 

Vespids are quite nice this edition but get undervalued by many T'au player (partially because their models are old and expensive I guess). M14 BS4+ T4 Sv4+ LD5/8 (with the leader still alive), can FLY and can deep strike. They also carry a neat 18" Assault2 S5 AP-2 D1 gun.

 

Hammerheads are decent. BS3+ T7 W13 Sv3+, FLY and have either a gun that's basically a better Lascannon but suffers from being really just a single shot on an expensive chassis. The Railgun has an alternative profile with 1d6 S6 AP-1 D1 shots but nobody really uses that one because of the alternative loadout which is the Ion Cannon with either 3 S7 AP-2 D2 shots or when overcharged 1d6 S8 AP-2 D3 shots.

Few things to know about Hammerheads: 1. they can't take support systems and their main weapon is Heavy so if they move they only hit on 4+ with it and 2. since they are neither Infantry nor Battlesuit they don't benefit from having Drones around so you can just point your Lascannons at them and kill them like any other tank in the game. Hence why nobody really uses Hammerheads compared to a Riptide except for the few T'au Sept lists that include the named character Hammerhead Longstrike which gives nearby Hammerheads +1 to-hit.

[Doom Herald]

I thought about using Terminators. I have a few kits if the old style Terminators. Honestly, if I COULD kit the whole unit out as a Combi-Bolter and a Chainaxe, I would use them, but realistically, I'm going to have to use power weapons, and I don't want to spend those points. Im sure he would be fine with "counts as" but I don't like doing that.

 

If they hit deepstrikers on a 5+, maybe Warp Talons would be worth using. Is that a 1/turn/tau unit thing, or can it do that every time I deepstrike? Would oblits even be worth taking at the Shadowspear point value?

 

How about the idea of Berzerkers in Land Raiders? Fire Lascannons as it moves up, deploy Berzerkers, charge with Land Raider to soak overwatch, charge with berzerkers.

[Panzer]

If they hit deepstrikers on a 5+, maybe Warp Talons would be worth using. Is that a 1/turn/tau unit thing, or can it do that every time I deepstrike? Would oblits even be worth taking at the Shadowspear point value?

 

Support systems are equipment so he can do it every time with each model that has it.

 

Obliterators are still fine imo. Again, just take whatever you like. It sounds like he's going to play a very casual list so you shouldn't worry too much about what's efficient.