Tyranids Tactics?

[SwashBuccaneer]

We're in the middle of a Vigilus campaign and my local group seems to have a lot of space roaches I wind up fighting.

 

It's not going too well for me being a newbie as I don't really understand my army yet, their amries/units, and the game yet. Plus I don't exactly have a super competitive list running pure DW (did manage to get a double battalion though).

 

I know they hate my Vindicare (managed to pop his warlord in 1 turn with him and the turbo round stratagem) and synaptic shooting stratagem.

 

Just not sure what to target first as there's so many bugs and they kind of look the same at this point to me. :)

 

Any advice is appreciated as I would like to put up more of a fight.

[HighMarshalAmp]

FIrst off, read this to get a feel for your guys.

Wait 'til you feel comfortable at the table.

Then read this to get a feel for your opponent.

 

Now in your opponent's army, are there many big bugs or only a few big bugs and loads of small ones? Probably the latter.

Scoring objectives is hard with those guys, so make sure to have guys with ranged gear in the backfield closer than 9" to any table edge! That way, you can deny Deep Strikes and at least score the objectives in your zone.

You need volume of fire to thin them out. So make sure to target swarms with guns that fire many low-strength shots.

IG fit that role nicely and you have a lot of Storm Bolters and Bolt RIfles. That's good!

 

The hard hitting guns you've got (Looking at the Dreads. I like what you chose but consider Mortis Dreads - I know I went for them instead of Ven Dreads 'cause Mortis are plain better at the long range anti-armor job the Dreads are meant to do) are there to deal with big, tough guys and nothing else. You don't want to sink 2 S9 D6 shots into a swarm of 20-odd crawlers, killing a max of 2.

You're still a little short on dedicated anti-tank (you need the vof to deal with the swarms though), so the Watch Master should babysit those big guns to make sure they hit. He might be tough and quite able to do damage at the front lines, but he won't be of any use if he gets swarmed or squished by a Tyrant. If he makes sure your Lascanons hit, you'll get nice mileage out of him as well.

 

Target priority hasn't really come up at this point. You have guns that are made to kill certain stuff, point them at that stuff.

It's tricky to know which of the big bugs to target though. Most of them buff the swarms and don't be shy to ask your opponent which aura this or that model might have. You're getting to know one army already, you don't need to become an authority on Nids as well.

But overall, if it has wings, it's a huge danger to your backfield, so target it first.

 

Frankly, your best bet might be to form a gunline and march it up the table while you have a castle of Libby, Master and Dreads in the back. Have the Libby cast Might of Heroes on one of the Dreads, preferably an injured one. Your Troops will get charged into something fierce asap (that's why IG should be at the front) and shot to pieces (your IG is likely to get ignored in the shooting phase). They're expensive fodder and you should know that. You'll get butchered.

So anything you can do to earn VPs, you should try to do, even if it means sacrificing models. Having more guys left and losing 3-10 isn't worth it.

 

Post a batrep asap so we know where you could try something different and where you simply kicked backside ;)

[SwashBuccaneer]

Awesome write up. Thanks.

 

He seems to run a few bigger guys and lots of little things like genestealer and some shooty bugs as well as some nasty floating brain bugs that I deleted 1 of my frag teams with a nasty mortal wounds power.

 

Some other notables he has...

 

A big shooty bug that sits in the back and pulverizes stuff. Looks like it has a big cannon for a head.

 

A swarmlord with his annoying bodyguards.

 

Lots of little shooty bugs that he puts in a long conga line on objectives. And crazy fast stealers.

 

He does have a lot of nids and he does mix things up but we have several nids players as well with similar lists. I just usually play this guy a lot cause he's a cool guy and is patient with me.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Genestealers are a huge threat because they are so fast so be careful versus them.

[HighMarshalAmp]

Oh, also SYNAPTIC SEVERANCE. Lets a unit (not model, a unit) snipe a Synapse Character. Costs 2CP. Can be quite useful if you want to hit a Swarmlord across his swarm ;)

 

Aaw hell no, Genestealers. That ain't pure Nids, that's Xenos soup. The only Xenos soup.

Ok, they're fast (As BO has already warned you about), they can deploy everywhere and they've gotten a brand new Codex with nice stuff in it.

The best tactic to win against Genestealers is to become the enemy - play Genestealers instead.

 

But as DW, essentially it's the same as against Nids on their own. Focus volume of fire on chaff (even their better Troops are only T3 Sv5+) and Bikes, focus anti-tank on other vehicles and avoid getting charged by guys with more than 2 arms at all costs. They hit at S4 IN ADDITION to hitting a lot AND re-rolling 1s if they have an Icon with them.

They're essentially S4 Hormagaunts.

Well ok, Hormagaunts are even faster so they'll get to you first.

 

You best bets are volume of fire and strong overwatch.

When your IG gets charged, don't let your Veterans join the fight! That way, you'll get one more round of shooting out before your Marines get jumped.

 

By now, I think I really need Frag Cannons in my army...

[SwashBuccaneer]

Yeah the frag cannons are just so good. I dropped all of the primaris kill teams I had to get 1 more squad worth and I would love more.

 

The frags destroy in such a short range and the long range profile isn't too bad either.

 

Also when I say Genestealers I mean the Nids' Genestealers not the cults. But those guys are fast as hell and scary. :)

[HighMarshalAmp]

Not the Cults? Oh, you're good then. Well, less screwed at least.

 

Me, I went with the Deathwatch Upgrade kit only. I had so many leftover from old Tac Squads that one day, I set out to make all my unused Beakies into a Raven Guard Battalion (halfway there) and the rest into something that's black too.

It's just that now, I don't want to mix DW kit parts and C:SM parts and the arms are just very different in the DW box. So the Frag Cannon arms would just look out of place and that was enough to deter me so far. Writing about hordes now made me question my decision...

 

I just ordered 2 Dreads and am priming some bikes. The core of my 1000pts of DW (which gets allied to my C:SMs) are Vets with SBs. They get teleported in and unleash 60 SIA shots at whatever they see in front of them. I kinda like that, but against Nids and Orks, it's far from enough...

[Kallas]

Tyranid Genestealers are better than Cult Genestealers (cheaper, benefit from Hive Fleet bonuses) but the Cults are damn strong in their own ways.

[SwashBuccaneer]

On a side note I have been amassing models for a GSC army and have everything picked up for my first list of them.

 

The Nids player I play is encouraging me to pick them up to run in 2 player games with his nids. Could be fun. :D

[HighMarshalAmp]

On a side note I have been amassing models for a GSC army and have everything picked up for my first list of them.

 

The Nids player I play is encouraging me to pick them up to run in 2 player games with his nids. Could be fun.

Do it!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Genestealers are Xenos wth you talking bout Willy ?

[IronDreddKnight]

Spamming storm bolters / bolt rifles with the 2+ wound rounds is the best way to counter Tyranids. Everything is either infantry or monsters with a 3+ save or worse (3++ for zoanthropes but the same concept applies)

 

Genestelaers + swarmlord sling shot can and will make a first turn charge, so deploy carefully.

 

Avoid combat as much as possible, you’ll lose that fight every time. A vanguard veteran in your kill teams is a good idea to fall back and shoot.

 

Deal with any hive guard as early as possible. A full unit of 6 will put out 12 S8 ap-2 D3 (ignoring LOS and cover) twice a turn with the single minded annihilation strat.

 

Hope this helps, these are my initial thoughts on main things to counter Tyranids.

[SwashBuccaneer]

One unit he loves to run is the swarmloard with his bodyguards. What's the best way to deal with these bozos? We're playing a 2.5k game on Saturday so who knows what kinds of bugs he's going to have but he does love that swarmlord/BG combo. And those damn floating brain bugs.

 

I'm also running 1 Assassin with latest Index rules and have the Vindicare as the only one that's finished. But I have an Eversor and Culexus built. Which assassin should I run against Nids? I'm thinking Culexus but not sure how long he's going to last being upfront against a swarm.

[IronDreddKnight]

Hellfire shells will melt anything rolling saves on 3+ If dedicate enough shots. Bolter rifles would be best here for the stock ap-1 but storm bolters obviously have the greater output.

 

Don’t be too hasty to get within rapid fire range. 12” is Tyranids kill zone as well as yours.

 

An evesor assassin might be an excellent idea to combat hive guard if he has them.

[SwashBuccaneer]

Tonight's game went well. I still lost but only by a couple of points due to bad tactical objectives card draws. Didn't help that the 6 discarded cards I wound up sticking back in my deck and drew 4 of them on turn 2. Things like Dominate and Morale failures against a heavy synpase list.

 

I managed to hold the line on my side of the board and scored some points for the objectives but just not enough board control to get to the other objectives.

 

Feeling good about my army now and getting more comfortable and was able to screen better with my cheaper intercessors and lure his nids into a kill box of Frag Cannons. Using my doctrines and the SIA chart I was able to kill a lord of war model he had gotten into my lines (forget name but I believe it was a forge world model) with Storm Bolter fire.

 

Used my Eversor but not sure how I feel about him as he really did not have much impact. He did not manage to get any action until the last turn against some Hormagaunts. Maybe I should have deepstriked him into the back lines.

 

My current list is lacking some serious heavy firepower and it doesn't help when 2 Twin Lascannon shots from the dreads go through and I rolled double 1s in the D6 damage shots without CP left lol that hurt.

[Morticon]

Ive had good success with the Eversor against nids.  If the opponent is running stealers+swarmlord, then he's getting a first turn charge no matter what, and i run the assassin as a counter charge.  If he's doing a more balanced approach, I'll always deploy him into reserve and always go for the infantry.  

 

 

Just a small note- Swarmlord (and Hive Tyrants) are both over 10 wounds, so dont need synaptic severance.  The Malanthrope, however, is a really good unit to snipe and remove the aura of protection afforded to all units in 6" of it. 

It's a strat best used on something like a Mortis Contemptor, or something else with a heavy high S weapon output.  

[SwashBuccaneer]

Got a picture of the deployment. Wanted to get more and try to write up a batrep but at 2.5k and being slow I did not want to take too long.

 

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/AaVRbzu

 

I deployed conservatively as he was going first but I managed to seize the initiative by rolling a 6. Not much in range to shoot sadly lol.

[GrinNfool]

Oof that is a lot of foot slogging, and your deployment looks a bit sloppy too though its hard to tell with just a picture and not knowing where a unit ends and where 1 begins.  Against nids especially swarmlord w/ and w/o stealers you are going to get charged turn 1, and you need to go into your deployment understanding that its going to happen.  You need to deploy around the idea of it happening, and with a thought of what to do if you do manage to go first, often times if you pay attention to what your opponent is likely to try to swarmlord boost/kraken strat boost you should be able to set yourself up in a position to make what he wants to do more difficult.  For example you could have flown your corvus in between his genestealers and their most direct target making his turn 1 charge more difficult, as he can't move over your base (strange as that sounds) 

 

On your deployment line being sloppy you don't appear to have a "this is here to get charged" section of your formation  Its just 1 static line that once he gets to you its going to be rough to fight back.  Run a couple squads with 1 MAYBE 2 frag and some SS/BGs upfront just bare minimum unit size, space them such that your opponent is forced to deal with them first and put them up front far enough away he can't consolidate into them.  Always stagger your lines.  You need to have a clear idea of what you are willing to sacrifice first, and have those squads set up accordingly.  Common pit fall of the new player is not setting up their squads with a purpose.

 

I am also not a big advocate of footslogging marines poor mobility and mobility can often be used to protect your guys or give you position to affect theirs.  Could bring a rhino even if you have it empty at the start, depending on matchup, if you go first you can throw it in a melee armies way, and if you don't you can use it in the front line to just get in the way of better targets.  Just remember with the rhino to put it in a place that it blocks a likely charge and doesn't give a unit that wouldn't otherwise be able to cover the ground something close enough to charge and gain distance, or allow an easy consolidate into one of your squads. You can also use it for the free 3" of movement if you need it for a frag squad.

 

If you are open to new models 2-3 biker squads would help with both of the above problems, allowing you to position them safely, and if you get first turn move up and create a blockade.

 

Finally take advantage of your terrain, that makes chargers harder, like that crater, and force that -2" charge

 

As far as assassin goes depends on what they are bringing.  Vs broodlord or nid prime that they are trying to hide as warlord vindicare works fine, turbo pen can help vs monsters in a pinch and can help pick off pesky invuln units like zoan or neurothropes ignoring those invulns.  An eversor is almost never a bad choice as long as you can get the charge. If you want something to bog the enemy down then culexus is fantastic for that often being able to hold most units in combat for a couple turns, while being an annoyance for psykers, and pariahs gaze strategem with a good d6 roll on number of shots can do some serious damage.  Can be very easily pop an entire unit of tyrant guard with good positioning.  Had a culexus shoot 6 wounds off the swarmlord (potential for more) before so don't over look them.

[SwashBuccaneer]

Good stuff. I put my 3x5 cheap intercessors up front to make them soak up any shenanigans first as his line crashed into me.

 

I pivoted the Corvus to the right and flew it up into his front line and threw psychic fortress on it and forced him to smite it instead of my guys.

 

And it did a good job of blocking him.

 

I was trying to deploy in such a way where my 5 man intercessor squads would act as speed bumps and take the brunt of his charge.

 

He plays Behemoth so wasn't as fast as our last game when he was Kraken which helped.

 

I pushed up to both objectives closest to mine after I seized and staggered them more with my frags about 5" behind the intercessors. I was trying to keep them from getting blown away. And I scored my cards for those 2.

 

When he charged into me finally my guys held and fought back. When it was my turn again I simply had the cheap intercessors fall back a couple inches and opened some room as well hoping he would fly into the frag squads. Then I started shooting the hormagaunts and genestealers as they came in and erased an entire genestealer unit on the charge in.

 

His big nasty FW bug thing was in my lines by now as well but I was able to kill it turn 2.

 

Was a fun and close game and i could have won if i hadn't screwed my cards up. Obviously have a lot to learn about the game and strategy and been tweaking my list more after seeing what i like and don't like and slotting some guardsmen in to give me cheap bodies.

 

My kill teams are 10 man units so not sure how to best transport them so they don't need to foot slog. I tried deepstriking everything I could our first game but that left me almost tabled by turn 1 end.

 

I have my current drafted list on the DW army list board that I'm still working on as well.