2019 survey is live, show your BT support

[Marshal Arthur]

Be sure to commend GW for our Vigilus detachment. If they know that’s well received in our community it’ll encourage more specialist detachments like ours. I also did my part and pushed for Templar love and Primaris upgrade sprues.

[Sete]

Sorry bud but I ain't praising them for something that's super late.

It still does not make up for all the times we got ignored or received underwhelming :cuss.

[Marshal Reinhard]

That's like giving the signal you didn't even like the vigilus stuff and didn't care that it was there or not.

[Firepower]

Sorry bud but I ain't praising them for something that's super late.

It still does not make up for all the times we got ignored or received underwhelming .

 

"Give us stuff!"

 

"Okay, here's stuff."

 

"You waited too long to give us stuff!  Thanks for nothing!  Now give us stuff again!"

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

We should let GW know we're happy that they're paying attention to us. I agree with that statement, even while disliking everythign about special detachments. Often, 1 CP +2 for the extra attacks on a single squad will get less done for me than just spending 3 CP to fight again with a squad of my choice. Even including the extra buff from giving someone the warlord trait it isn't enough. I wish that spending CP on the detachment would just upgrade the units in question to have those abilities innately, then we can adjust the cost up a bit to match.

 

Still. It's been great to see the amount of support shown for BT during this survey. Guys at my shop who don't even own a Templar model pitched in to vote on our behalf. Not everyone will do that. Even on these forums there are a good chunk of people who roll their eyes any time a BT codex is even mentioned. But if we have faith, brothers, we will get our due!

[Agamemnon_Ilias]

 

Sorry bud but I ain't praising them for something that's super late.

It still does not make up for all the times we got ignored or received underwhelming .

 

"Give us stuff!"

 

"Okay, here's stuff."

 

"You waited too long to give us stuff!  Thanks for nothing!  Now give us stuff again!"

 

 

Thanks for screwing us in the 6. Edition!

 

Thanks for taking our lore and identity from us in 7th Edition and largely ignoring us otherwise! (Being a mixture of somehow loyal Word Bearers and World Eaters is so much better than being unique and only slightly contradicts... everything)

 

Thanks for bloating the "new" Edition with Formations (I don't mind you promised you wouldn't do it [again!]) and at least giving my army one of those, despite the fact it played absolutely no role in the conflict, apart from being mentioned twice). I'm sooo grateful?

 

Showing appreciation for the special detachment is fine, I understand why people would do it. But demanding to praise GW for it, is rather incomprehensible (and Sete didn't attack them, he only stated that in his opinion it is no substitute for the things taken from us in the last editions).

 

I showed my BT support in the survey, I voiced how much I would appreciate a new codex or at least a supplement, but I saw no reason to commend them for the special detachment.

[BitsHammer]

On a less bitter note we're in thr last 24 hours of the survey so if you haven't filled it out you'll want to do it very soon.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

Sorry bud but I ain't praising them for something that's super late.

It still does not make up for all the times we got ignored or received underwhelming .

 

"Give us stuff!"

 

"Okay, here's stuff."

 

"You waited too long to give us stuff!  Thanks for nothing!  Now give us stuff again!"

 

 

Thanks for screwing us in the 6. Edition!

 

Thanks for taking our lore and identity from us in 7th Edition and largely ignoring us otherwise! (Being a mixture of somehow loyal Word Bearers and World Eaters is so much better than being unique and only slightly contradicts... everything)

 

Thanks for bloating the "new" Edition with Formations (I don't mind you promised you wouldn't do it [again!]) and at least giving my army one of those, despite the fact it played absolutely no role in the conflict, apart from being mentioned twice). I'm sooo grateful?

 

Showing appreciation for the special detachment is fine, I understand why people would do it. But demanding to praise GW for it, is rather incomprehensible (and Sete didn't attack them, he only stated that in his opinion it is no substitute for the things taken from us in the last editions).

 

I showed my BT support in the survey, I voiced how much I would appreciate a new codex or at least a supplement, but I saw no reason to commend them for the special detachment.

 

 

Pointing out that forgoing the use of your voice to point out that you liked something you liked, minor or not, is not the same as demanding you praise something. Be less hyperbolic perhaps?

 

And all those things you disliked? Point those out too. Giving them honest feedback is all good. 

 

But remaining silent will only ever be interpretted one way: Disinterest.

[Agamemnon_Ilias]

I was reacting to the second quoted post, which was not even a bit less hyperbolic. If Firepower's post had been less dismissive, mine would have been way more neutral, too.

 

I totally agree with you that giving them honest feedback is essential, I pointed out my concerns in the survey without scorn or the afore mentioned hyperbole, because I'm well aware that objective voices are more likely to be heard than scornful rants. It would be great, if many players advocate for a bit more love for the Black Templars, especially after seeing GW actually seems to care about the surveys.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

My only concern with change, is that it may backfire on us.

 

My main concern would be losing the BT upgrade kit. It's by far the best value kit of any chapter, but is old and non-primaria friendly. (Pads aside) it would suck if we lost it and ended up with the tiny, expensive sprues the other chapters have. (And nothing for vehicles!)

 

The thing that makes me hopeful for the lore not being messed up is oddly the recent articles in White Dwarf on the Assassins and Crimson Fists, both managed to say something new, while actively referencing the old fluff accurately and fluently.

 

Anywho, I suppose my summary is, we should be careful what we wish for.

[Sete]

 

 

Sorry bud but I ain't praising them for something that's super late.

It still does not make up for all the times we got ignored or received underwhelming .

"Give us stuff!"

 

"Okay, here's stuff."

 

"You waited too long to give us stuff! Thanks for nothing! Now give us stuff again!"

I see you are the type of person that goes to a restaurant, orders, waits for 2 hours, gets a cold plate of food and still compliment the chef.

 

Now seriously, it was a great formation. But looking at the big picture, it's rules for ogmarines when the focus shifted to Primaris. And yes I do believe it's too little and too late.

[Firepower]

If I believed for one moment that Sete could ever be pleased, I wouldn't be dismissive.  At this point I just chime in every thirtieth or fortieth time I see him carrying this tired torch stained with dead horse ashes.  I didn't "compliment the chef," I publicly called it a poor restaurant, loudly, and stopped buying their food.  But when people come out of there satisfied or complimentary now the better half of a decade later, I don't jump up and scream about the cold meal I got years ago because it's not material to the conversation anymore.  In fact, for the record, I still haven't bought any GW products (barring the occasional OGMarine ebay thing) aside from paint since they rolled out Primaris, because I don't like anything they've made.  If they come out with something that interests me, I will.

 

I won't defend the decisions GW has made of Templars for many of the last several years because I still don't agree with them.  I've been (very) vocal about that when it was relevant as well.  Key word: relevant.

 

If you're asked how you think things are going for your interests in the hobby, the answer is not to rave about decisions made to the fluff/the codex roll back in 6th edition.  Again.  Again again.

 

At most, you can say "Hey, more of this and less that," or "This, but do more, or do it differently this way."  The first, second, and third foot forward in the conversation cannot all be condemnation piss and vinegar, much of it about things that are no longer material to the conversation, and then willfully disregard the one thing they have done for us because you rather continue to be pissed off.  The appropriate reaction to a perspective like that is to be dismissed, as I'm sure the people paid to read these reviews will do, because you've already shown you don't care what they do.  You've made it clear you're resolved to just be angry.  And that is a perspective and approach from fans of many different genres that ultimately does more harm than good to your cause.

 

So "Hey, you gave us stuff, but this is the stuff we actually need/want."  A Primaris focused detachment, for instance, as you hint at almost begrudgingly as a ray of potential progress in that last post, Sete.  Not "You gave us stuff but I've dug in my heels on this subject for five years and I'll be damned if I'll capitulate even in the face of a good willed attempt to give me something and ask my opinion of it."  You're somehow paradoxically being a customer while biting the hand that feeds you in a single act.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Another one of my concerns echoes your view to an extent. It's the concern that even if GW brought out a new BT Codex tomorrow, unless that codex publicly disavowed a lot of the things which have changed fluffwise since 2004, people would still be livid with them.

[BitsHammer]

I've learned in the last 15 years of on and off involvement in 40k that the only thing that doesn't change is that the fan community is the world's leading exporter in salt.

 

I'm not claiming everyone has to like everything or anything stupid like insisting that every release is only good, ect. I'm saying that no matter what GW does, the fan community stays salty.

 

I try to use the carrot and the stick approach. I flat out said what I was looking for in the survey, but I also said they're doing a lot better than they were in the past. People listen more when you mention that they did something right instead of only mentioning that they did wrong.

[redmapa]

Im surprised to see a lot of BT support, we'll see what GW takes out of this survey. I'd be happy just to see Primaris company veterans or a WD article for BT.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I really need something other than Primaris. If we get an index article, or a mono faction buff, or a codex, with old marine support in it, I'll be happy as a clam. Recognition is recognition. But I don't buy Primaris. Primaris releases might as well not exist to me. So if that is what we get, I might have to shelve my boys in black for a while and move on to greener pastures. I can't keep playing a faction that has no hope for growth. It just stresses me out.

 

I suppose to some people Primaris are the obvious way forward, but when I think about them they just make me angry. Don't need those feelings in my life.

[BitsHammer]

Im surprised to see a lot of BT support, we'll see what GW takes out of this survey. I'd be happy just to see Primaris company veterans or a WD article for BT.

Rules for a Primaris Crusader Squad would be nice. Something to reflect the Initiate/Neophyte roles the army trains with.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I think the community survey was pretty well done. They specificly asked what one liked and what one didnt like about newer releases. You were able to tell them that you didnt buy into chaos because of equipment limitations in the boxes (which I did) you were able to tell them that you want multi Part,multi pose, several options squads and characters.

 

You were also able to say bring back our chapter identity, vigilus was cool but we are not Black smurfs.

 

You were also able to say everything sucks :cuss you. But guess what I do in my professional life when someone comes in and tells me "no one gets me and all your colleagues are incompetenta and no one listens" ? The same thing gw employees will do I'd guess.

[Brother Carpenter]

Dang missed it.

Next year muahahaha

[Sete]

Hmm, actually I don't think lately my attitude is piss and vinegar. In fact im sure.

The setting moved forward and with it we must to. Primaris crusader squads is just the easiest thing to do to keep our small bit of identity going on (rules wise).

But I will stand by my opinion that the sword bros formation while good, came too late.

Fluffwise, I have been alright with most of the changes, my biggest grip always has been our rules and model representation. And yes, I will keep that war going to the end of times.

You can disagree in how I pursue my objectives, its fine. I just think being passive does not help our cause either. 

 

Edit: Most of my direct feedback to GW is quite mild and nothing outrageous.

A Primaris EC, a Castellan Mini, and an upgrade sprue with chainsword for Primaris Melee Squads. Maybe some Primaris Sword Bros aswell.

Not even mention rules.

But back on the topic of the survey, think we had a good showing. Even if we don't get anything, the fact that we had a bit of support on official channels might work something out for us. Not necessarily a codex or full range, but something, and honestly that will be alright.

Proper Knightly power swords, chainswords for intercessors, our IC redone, and I will be pleased.

[BitsHammer]

Sete, don't take this as me looking down on your passion for the game or your favorite faction, but as someone who works retail anf whose whole work history is customer service related, I can safely say the more aggressive you the more likely you are to be brushed off.

 

The people collating the data are just the WHC team who will distill it for the design team. That means anything said in a manner akin to a smack upside the head will be ignored as 'unconstructive feedback' or 'trolling'.

 

Even if you're unhappy, always try to remember the people who have to handle the complaints are almost never the ones who are responsible for the complaint and you're just shoving someone out to deal with it unfairly.

[Sete]

Im not going around clubbing baby seals...

Like I said, on official channels my feedback is never aggressive or disrespectful.

I do persue my agenda relentlessly.

[BitsHammer]

I didn't mean to imply you were clubbing baby seals or anything. I was only looking at your tone in your posts, and if you weren't that "direct" on the actual survey then it stands a better chance of being taken into consideration.

 

That said, if that advice is unneeded then feel free to ignore me.

[Sete]

Nah I get the criticism no worries. Been trying to improve ;)

Passion runs hot sometimes, and I'm not the best person keeping my feelings in check. My wife tells me the same xD

I was short and clear on the survey.

Rules and Range support for Black Templars, Upgrade sprues for all chapters, and new guard regiments. Exactly this.

[BitsHammer]

Nah I get the criticism no worries. Been trying to improve

Passion runs hot sometimes, and I'm not the best person keeping my feelings in check. My wife tells me the same xD

I was short and clear on the survey.

Rules and Range support for Black Templars, Upgrade sprues for all chapters, and new guard regiments. Exactly this.

Glad to hear. Sorry if I came off as preachy about the whole thing. Like I said, I've been doing customer service based stuff basically my entire work career (even in the Army I was doing HR was is all customer service based) so I have a lot of feelings about being the one getting the shotgun blast by someone teed off about something that you have no control or say over.

 

Basically I've been party to being chewed out by a lot of people for stuff I wasn't even related for so I tend to understand how the people stuck taking the feedback will take it, so I just want to make sure that we do our best to give that feedback in a way that doesn't get us ignored for being too zealous.