Reserve Company tactical markings

[Kua]

Another quick question about heraldry:

 

The 6th and 7th Co consists of tactical squads that are sometimes deployed on bikes or LS respectively.

Now, when they are, what do their shoulder pads show: The single arrow of a tactical squad, or the quad arrow of assault marines?

[Panzer]

That's a good question and probably something GW didn't properly thing through. Firstly every Tactical Marine (which are the only Battleline squads we used to have before Primaris) is trained in all the other roles so mentioning that the 6th ones are trained in Bike usage and the 7th are trained in Land Speeder and Stormtalon usage makes no sense. Secondly how reserve companies work is generally a bit wonky anyway.

Personally I'd go with what fits the best to the usual heraldry knowledge we've been provided with and just say that either 6th and 7th only provide Battleline squads (aka Tacticals and now also Intercessors) while leaving the bikes and land speeders to the 8th companys Close Support squads ... or say they are more flexible than regular battle companies and switch battlefield roles to Close Support when getting used as Bike squad or Land Speeder squadron (which would question why the 8th company exist separately in the first place though).

[Kua]

The 8th regular deployment type would be as assault squads, which aren’t provided by the 6th and the 7th.

Also the codex mentions the 6th and 7th being deployed entirely one bikes/LS, which the battle companies don’t (but the 8th could, in theory, as well).

You are right about tacticals having absolved a time as assault marines, but maybe it a question of equipment and upheld/repeated exercise.

[Panzer]

The 8th regular deployment type would be as assault squads, which aren’t provided by the 6th and the 7th.

Also the codex mentions the 6th and 7th being deployed entirely one bikes/LS, which the battle companies don’t (but the 8th could, in theory, as well).

You are right about tacticals having absolved a time as assault marines, but maybe it a question of equipment and upheld/repeated exercise.

 

No, the 8th are Close Support. That can be Assault squads but also Bike squads, Landspeeder, Inceptors, Reivers or Centurion Assault squads. Check page 70ff in the Codex for which units are listed as Close Support squads.

 

I know that the Codex mentions that about 6th and 7th. Hence why I said it doesn't make much sense.

[Kua]

You misread my post.

I’m referring to you questioning the reason of the 8th to exist.

And I‘m also trying to find an explanation how the quirks of the 6th or 7th would make sense still.

[Brother Tyler]

Insignium Astartes showed them retaining the normal Tactical Squad markings (6th & 7th Company squads).

 

One option is to use the basic squad badges (i.e., role) with the Battle Company squads, but to use the basic squad badge for the Reserve Company squads. So 6th & 7th Company squads would have the Tactical squad marking, 8th Company squads would have Assault squad marking, and 9th Company squads would have Devastator squad marking. That coupled with the normal company markings (e.g., shoulder pad rim colors for the Ultramarines and many other Chapters) would help to portray forces from detachments that draw upon squads from multiple companies (which appears to be a standard practice for Adeptus Astartes detachments).

 

As for a logical rationale for why the Reserve Companies exist - they exist in the format that they do simply because GW tells us that they do. We might see Roboute Guilliman refine the Chapter organization (and the roles/constitutions of the Reserve Companies) as he refines the Codex Astartes.

[Panzer]

You misread my post.

I’m referring to you questioning the reason of the 8th to exist.

And I‘m also trying to find an explanation how the quirks of the 6th or 7th would make sense still.

 

No I didn't. I just told you that the 8th standard deployment isn't Assault Marines. It's whatever is required from the Close Support squad repertoire, which includes Bikes and Landspeeder. And since those are already included in the 8th company it makes no sense for it being covered by the Battleline reserve companies as well. If you do that you could just scratch all the designations for reserve companies and just let them be whatever.

[Kua]

Insignium Astartes showed them retaining the normal Tactical Squad markings (6th & 7th Company squads).

 

One option is to use the basic squad badges (i.e., role) with the Battle Company squads, but to use the basic squad badge for the Reserve Company squads. So 6th & 7th Company squads would have the Tactical squad marking, 8th Company squads would have Assault squad marking, and 9th Company squads would have Devastator squad marking. That coupled with the normal company markings (e.g., shoulder pad rim colors for the Ultramarines and many other Chapters) would help to portray forces from detachments that draw upon squads from multiple companies (which appears to be a standard practice for Adeptus Astartes detachments).

 

Thank you, found it now!

And yes, as I read it, this is exactly what is being suggested by the Insignium: Battle company LS => assault markings; 7th Co LS => tactical markings.

 

 

 

You misread my post.

I’m referring to you questioning the reason of the 8th to exist.

And I‘m also trying to find an explanation how the quirks of the 6th or 7th would make sense still.

 

No I didn't. I just told you that the 8th standard deployment isn't Assault Marines.

 

It is as much as the 6th and 7th are Tacticals. You don’t like the idea that there is more than one Company intended to be deployed fully on bikes or LS, but maybe Guilliman did. ;)

[Panzer]

 

Insignium Astartes showed them retaining the normal Tactical Squad markings (6th & 7th Company squads).

 

One option is to use the basic squad badges (i.e., role) with the Battle Company squads, but to use the basic squad badge for the Reserve Company squads. So 6th & 7th Company squads would have the Tactical squad marking, 8th Company squads would have Assault squad marking, and 9th Company squads would have Devastator squad marking. That coupled with the normal company markings (e.g., shoulder pad rim colors for the Ultramarines and many other Chapters) would help to portray forces from detachments that draw upon squads from multiple companies (which appears to be a standard practice for Adeptus Astartes detachments).

 

Thank you, found it now!

And yes, as I read it, this is exactly what is being suggested by the Insignium: Battle company LS => assault markings; 7th Co LS => tactical markings.

 

 

 

You misread my post.

I’m referring to you questioning the reason of the 8th to exist.

And I‘m also trying to find an explanation how the quirks of the 6th or 7th would make sense still.

 

No I didn't. I just told you that the 8th standard deployment isn't Assault Marines.

 

It is as much as the 6th and 7th are Tacticals. You don’t like the idea that there is more than one Company intended to be deployed fully on bikes or LS, but maybe Guilliman did.

 

 

It's not about liking it or not. I really don't care to be honest. It's just that it contradicts itself. They are Battleline squads. Battleline squads are NOT Bikes or Landspeeder. Those are Close Support squads. If you can't see how it contradicts itself here I really can't help you.

[Kua]

Yes, you obviously can’t. And probably it even doesn’t. :)

That it is not the usual way of deploying tactical marines is the reason it is specifically mentioned, after all.

[Brother Casman]

I would think that, for a 6th Company strike force, mounted on bikes, one could mark the bike squads with the tactical arrow, and maybe mark attack bike squads with the assault crossed arrows. The basic idea being that the bike squads are the battleline "troops" for the overall strike force, even though they wouldn't fill that role in a "traditional" battle company.

[Panzer]

Yes, you obviously can’t. And probably it even doesn’t.

That it is not the usual way of deploying tactical marines is the reason it is specifically mentioned, after all.

 

Agree to disagree then.

[MadGreek]

One option is using the regular upward pointing arrow    for tacticals - and if you have bikers or speeder troops that are "tactical" company Marines, use the sideways arrow with two opposing arrow heads. Seems like a nice intermediary point between tactical and assault markings

[Marshal Reinhard]

I don't see the problem with just giving them proper insignia for what they are. If their roles change I imagine the chapter serfs repaint the armor pads for them.

 

What's really the issue here?

[Kua]

There is no issue since the Insignia book shows rather clearly how it is meant to be. :)

 

What I decided in the end is quite similar to what MadGreek is suggesting above, but the other way around:

Being RG, my tactical troops already had the left-right arrow <=> and the LS crew got the up-arrow .

I'll see the suggestion as support for this idea. ^^

[Trevak Dal]

Man if the reserves are being called in...it's a bad scene though right?

[Brother Tyler]

Man if the reserves are being called in...it's a bad scene though right?

Not at all. While the Battle Companies usually form the basis of Adeptus Astartes detachments, those detachments are commonly composed of units from multiple companies. While we most often see elements of the 1st (Veteran) and 10th (Scout) Companies, it's not at all uncommon for detachments to include squads from the Reserve Companies.

 

The Taros Invasion Force, for example, was a relatively minor affair and it included Strike Force Orelius of the Raptors Chapter. That strike force included both the 3rd and 6th Companies.

 

The Anphelion Project was a very small affair and it culminated with a military force that included the Anphelion Investigation Force of the Red Scorpions Chapter. That force was led by Commander Culln of the 1st Company and included several Terminator squads of the 1st Company, but the bulk of the force consisted of members of the 6th Company.

 

The Siege of Vraks was a relatively large affair, though not on the scale of the Third War for Armageddon, the Fall of Cadia, or Vigilus. At different times there were a number of Adeptus Astartes forces present, including:

• Vraks Devastation Force of the Dark Angels, consisting of members of the Deathwing and Ravenwing with two Battle Companies (3rd and 5th) as well as members of the 6th, 8th, and 9th Reserve Companies.
• Strike Force Aineas of the Red Scoripons Chapter, consisting of a few squads from the 1st (Veteran) and 3rd (Battle) Companies as well as a few squads from the 6th and 8th (Reserve) Companies.

The Raid on Kastorel-Novem was another small affair and included Shadow Force Korvydae of the Raven Guard Chapter. That force included elements of the 1st (Veteran) and 5th (Battle) Companies, but also included elements of the 8th (Reserve) and 10th (Scout) Companies.

 

The Badab War was a large affair, and the nature of the war meant that many Chapters sent larger forces, so I'm going to ignore those (suffice to say that many Chapters sent forces that included elements of their Reserve Companies).

 

The thing to remember is that the Reserve Companies are not a training only/break glass only in dire need portion of their Chapters. They are specialist formations that are used in addition to and in augmentation of the Battle Companies to enhance capabilities. The Battle Companies form the basis of most Adeptus Astartes deployments, but those deployments are task-organized with elements from all of the other companies (including the 1st, 10th, and Reserve Companies) as well as the specialist orders (Librarium, Reclusium, Apothecarion, Forge) and the armouries of the Chapters based on mission requirements.

[Panzer]

 

The thing to remember is that the Reserve Companies are not a training only/break glass only in dire need portion of their Chapters. They are specialist formations that are used in addition to and in augmentation of the Battle Companies to enhance capabilities. The Battle Companies form the basis of most Adeptus Astartes deployments, but those deployments are task-organized with elements from all of the other companies (including the 1st, 10th, and Reserve Companies) as well as the specialist orders (Librarium, Reclusium, Apothecarion, Forge) and the armouries of the Chapters based on mission requirements.

 

Exactly. Battlecompanies are swiss army knifes. You can throw them at any problem and expect them to deal with it one way or another. Reserve companies are specialist tools. You use them when you exactly know what kind of job needs to be done that requires a bit more specialistic approach.

The reason why they are called reserves company instead of specialist company is because the default approach is to throw battlecompanies at the problem and let them decide whether they require some more expertise in the one or the other area than they can offer on their own.

[MegaVolt87]

Never made sense in my head canon that all reserve companies were not all tactical marines, from a training + logistics point of view. A tactical marine can do everything. Makes sense to me. If your training regimen can't produce marines that are flexible to operate like a tac squad BEFORE they start to specialize as they age/ veteran, you got problems in your training...