Future Black Book speculation

[noigrim]

I actually liked Malevolence, a far better book than Inferno that gives me hope for the future. The campaign system was a :cussup but hey it's not like any of their campaigns have been playable. There is some controversy against daemons and custodes but it's only a matter of tailoring your list a bit.

[Charlo]

Certainly shouldn't be the Seige in Black Books yet. That would be skipping more than half of the Heresy timeline.

 

For book 10 I'd actually quite like a big clean up book, similar to 4 or 6. Now we have all the legions a big book of notable battles from across the Galaxy and the wider state of the war would be excellent. Mars could be fit in here too for sure.

 

With the release of book 10 I'd also like an Age of Darkness Rulebook 2.0 and a new Legions Book as well that contains ALL legions, updated Blackshields etc

 

Then I'd say go for Calth 2: Shadow Crusade for book 11.

[Elzender]

A thing that might be interesting would be to add more legion-specific patterns of certain vehicles, giving them small boosts or qualities that fit with the Legion's theme. I know that the core of the legions are obviously the legionaries themselves, but in the same manner that each legion has created special squads to fit their needs, I can see them doing something similar with their vehicles. It is kinda weird that the only Legion that excelled at armoured warfare rules-wise are the Iron Hands (and maybe Salamanders to a lesser extent).

Nothing too extreme to need completely new kits, but some additional weapon options or equipment. Things like light armoured assault transports for WE, special Caestus for Imperial Fists, some boost to demolisher vindicators for Death Guard, jet-chariots for Blood Angels, whispercutters (were they from 30K?) for Raven Guard, etc.

[Charlo]

A thing that might be interesting would be to add more legion-specific patterns of certain vehicles, giving them small boosts or qualities that fit with the Legion's theme. I know that the core of the legions are obviously the legionaries themselves, but in the same manner that each legion has created special squads to fit their needs, I can see them doing something similar with their vehicles. It is kinda weird that the only Legion that excelled at armoured warfare rules-wise are the Iron Hands (and maybe Salamanders to a lesser extent).

Nothing too extreme to need completely new kits, but some additional weapon options or equipment. Things like light armoured assault transports for WE, special Caestus for Imperial Fists, some boost to demolisher vindicators for Death Guard, jet-chariots for Blood Angels, whispercutters (were they from 30K?) for Raven Guard, etc.

 

By the same token though, a lot of those require new models. And I'd rather more generic things for all legions and specific vehicles which are large expensive kits.

 

New weapon options if sold seperately would be cool though.

[Elzender]

I see what you mean, and I've realized that most of the list I gave would be new vehicles. I just think that if FW creates too many infantry special units for the legions, at some point there will be no generic infantry units at play. My idea for tanks would be to give some special rules or equipment, maybe an additional weapon option, so that while still the same chassis and recognizable as part of a normal legion armoury, it has some unique aspect.

 

Nonetheless, some extra legion-specific options for units like breachers, tactical squads or assault squads would be nice as well, giving them a little more flavour while keeping them relatively generic.

[rendingon1+]

I thought Malevolence was a great first outing for Neil and Anuj because they are still trying to establish themselves. I enjoyed seeing a full legion deployment dissected at Signus, and across a single star system in Chondax. The minutiae was less important to me than the broader strokes, and I think they captured the broad strokes really well. For instance the Angels dividing into three salients, moving to capture places based on geography. I also thought the bit about the defending against demons in the night was cool. The Daemons of the Ruinstorm list is hands down a perfect example of the strengths of army lists over datafaxes. The lack of color profiles wasn’t awesome, but we can’t attribute that to Alan’s passing. That’s the book designers and artists. The language had a tonal shift, but that was inevitable. ADB and Chris Wraight have different tones for their Custodes, and both are good and compliment each other. Overall my point is I’m willing to give the new team time to grow. I think Neil and Anuj love the Heresy as much as Alan did. Alan was a true talent and gifted creative. He was well educated and I think deep down he knew what people wanted more than they could articulate themselves, but that isn’t something that is natural for most people. When I think back to his Imperial Armor work I’m astounded how in each book with remarkably different enemies and protagonists he always hit the beats I cared about most AND he hit different beats for other people who don’t care about the things I care about. That’s a rare gift.

 

If you explain what you don’t like about Malevolence lore wise or rules wise I will try to show you different contexts in which to think about those things that might change your mind. It might not. No hard feelings if it doesn’t. Obviously your disappointment comes from love and not hate which is entirely valid.

Thanks for understnding (and extensive write up why you like it, it certainly helps to read constructive opinion). I'll get to it tomorow, today I'm dead tired.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

A thing that might be interesting would be to add more legion-specific patterns of certain vehicles, giving them small boosts or qualities that fit with the Legion's theme. I know that the core of the legions are obviously the legionaries themselves, but in the same manner that each legion has created special squads to fit their needs, I can see them doing something similar with their vehicles. It is kinda weird that the only Legion that excelled at armoured warfare rules-wise are the Iron Hands (and maybe Salamanders to a lesser extent).

Nothing too extreme to need completely new kits, but some additional weapon options or equipment. Things like light armoured assault transports for WE, special Caestus for Imperial Fists, some boost to demolisher vindicators for Death Guard, jet-chariots for Blood Angels, whispercutters (were they from 30K?) for Raven Guard, etc.

 

By the same token though, a lot of those require new models. And I'd rather more generic things for all legions and specific vehicles which are large expensive kits.

 

New weapon options if sold seperately would be cool though.

 

 

I think there's a possibility that Legion-specific vehicles are something that'll be expanded into somewhat if Malevolence is anything to go by, given its inclusion of the Blood Angels' Contemptor-Incaendius and the White Scars' Kyzagan Assault Speeder. I kinda agree with Charlo somewhat though - I doubt they'd do many per Legion (probably 1 or 2) and stick to smaller vehicles (Legion-specific super-heavies might be a bit much), and I'd expect mostly variants of existing chassis to reduce work/ complaints about other Legions not having access.

 

I do think it'd be cool to have some more Legion-specific upgrades for Vehicles though, along the lines of the Blood Angels getting their pseudo Baal pattern Assault Cannon upgrade. Ever since reading about old Predator variants having turret Graviton Cannon in IA 2, I've thought it'd make a neat upgrade for the Iron Hands, and the Salamanders having Vindicators with the Mastodon's central Melta weapon in place of their Demolisher cannon is an image I can't get out of my head.

[b1soul]

"Jaghatai's battles before returning to Terra"

 

I don't think we will be seeing this...Malevolence mentions something to the effect that the Imperial records are blank regarding the gap between WS leaving Chondax and WS arriving at Terra.

[talos402000]

I want Tallarn. I want it filled with new vehicles and Titans. I want to see some of the freaky Rogue Trader stuff that was mentioned. And then I want Beta Gamma and the mother of all Titan battles. I want a book that focuses on the Imperial Guard with rules for the Geno Chilliad. I want Mars as a seperate book filled with Titans, skittarii, and weird Mechanicus units.

Those are the main three I want, but I can think of others...

[carlisimo]

"Jaghatai's battles before returning to Terra"

 

I don't think we will be seeing this...Malevolence mentions something to the effect that the Imperial records are blank regarding the gap between WS leaving Chondax and WS arriving at Terra.

The ship’s probably sailed on the Second Battle of Prospero, which I think is very unfortunate (I just don’t see FW covering another early-Heresy battle after book 9). It would have been a nice reminder of how this whole thing started, with brothers fighting brothers. But it wouldn’t offer much opportunity for new units or rules, unless we get a new edition and need new ZM rules.

 

The Scars’ later battles, though, do offer a lot. A legion behind enemy lines for years is going to suffer from mechanical degradation and a lot of patchwork. It’s going to survive on looted equipment and supplies. That’s been talked about, but never translated into game terms.

 

It’s also the period of time in which the Sagyar Mazan exist, and in which Yesugei is involved in the Heresy. Are we really going to skip those? The events of The Path of Heaven are fairly significant for the Emperor’s Children, too, though there are probably other ways to cover them. Or here’s a wild idea - release an updated Navigator figure as an Agent of the Emperor (or Warmaster) while covering the Dark Glass story, along with a Navis Nobilite bodyguard unit and a shuttle. Think of the ZM missions they’d give you!

[Taliesin]

I want Tallarn. I want it filled with new vehicles and Titans. I want to see some of the freaky Rogue Trader stuff that was mentioned. And then I want Beta Gamma and the mother of all Titan battles. I want a book that focuses on the Imperial Guard with rules for the Geno Chilliad. I want Mars as a seperate book filled with Titans, skittarii, and weird Mechanicus units.

Those are the main three I want, but I can think of others...

 

These are all good options. Tallarn is not per se high on my list because it is less interesting to me than some other conflicts, but I'm sure they'd still make a great book about it.

 

Mars.... yes that is my number 1 alongside Siege of Terra books, especially if it really goes in depth on Mars, Mechanicum and everything that is at play there during Heresy, it has already taken too long to get there. More stuff on IG... also good.  I am glad we are at least seeing Dark Mechanicum detailed in book 9. Which I suspect we will surely have by the next Weekender.

[b1soul]

@ carlisimo

 

"The Scars’ later battles, though, do offer a lot. A legion behind enemy lines for years is going to suffer from mechanical degradation and a lot of patchwork. It’s going to survive on looted equipment and supplies. That’s been talked about, but never translated into game terms.

 

It’s also the period of time in which the Sagyar Mazan exist, and in which Yesugei is involved in the Heresy. Are we really going to skip those? The events of The Path of Heaven are fairly significant for the Emperor’s Children, too, though there are probably other ways to cover them."

 

Yeah...fully agree. Malevolence says that Imperial records don't cover WS during that period. If FW intends to skip, what a shame.

[Lord Blackwood]

More Solar Aux  and Imperial Militia stuff would be nice. 

Revisiting the wolves would also be great cause I feel like they did not get a great look the first go round. 

Considering we have the Siege and The Scouring that could potentially be expanded on ontop of all the untapped stuff that happened during the Heresy there should be more books. 

[noigrim]

War in the webway would be cool

[mateus of ultramar]

I would LOVE a book on the war in the webway, as well as the shadow crusades in the macragge system

[Captain Idaho]

I'm with you on that. Shadow Crusades was spoken of and we get told Guilliman is the Avenging Son but not shown... this is literature 101 stuff!

 

Also, I want more Ultras goodness! Did you know Ultras don't have their own Leviathan or Contemptor like the other Legions? Or any unique character releases bar Guilliman?

 

Grumble grumble grumble!

 

My wallet is probably quite glad of these facts mind...

[StruManChu]

I'm with you on that. Shadow Crusades was spoken of and we get told Guilliman is the Avenging Son but not shown... this is literature 101 stuff!

 

Also, I want more Ultras goodness! Did you know Ultras don't have their own Leviathan or Contemptor like the other Legions? Or any unique character releases bar Guilliman?

 

Grumble grumble grumble!

 

My wallet is probably quite glad of these facts mind...

 

OR Fulmentarus squads, OR Locutarus squads. There's one Primarch, one unique squad, and one unique upgrade pack. That's it!

 

They might be holding this stuff back for a Shadow Crusade book, but frankly, Tempest came out four years ago. That's a long enough wait.

 

Personally, I'll be really interested to see how FW flesh out the military engagements of the post-Shadow Crusade Imperium Secondus years. At the moment it seems it'd be Book 9 Part 2, with the Dark Angels chasing the Night Lords around Ultramar instead of Thramas. It'd be great to see what the IX and XIII get up to in that time, being that Pharos was a pretty small engagement timewise and that's the only other big narrative hook novels-wise before they pack up and go.

[Elzender]

It is true that Ultras lack a few kits, but to be fair you got two different helmet and torso upgrade packs and the shield+gladius upgrade for your breachers, and three special units ruleswise. Still, it is disapointing that UM did not get the specific contemptor while all other legions got it (leviathans and praetors for the moment are just for a few legions, but I'm hopeful FW will provide for all), and hope you get all of your units eventually.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Are we sure they’ll keep going after book 10? I have a bad feeling they’ll quietly bury the black books after this. I hope not, but I imagine they cost a lot of money to make and can’t sell all that many copies. Hope I am wrong!

[Marshal Rohr]

They actually don’t make that many. The reason Conquest and The other one I can’t recall are softback now is because they sold through their print run.

[b1soul]

Where do people get the idea the Black Books do not sell well

[Charlo]

Tallarn would be excellent as an oppurtunity to:

 

• Tighten up vehicle rules - they're either fragile to too hard to crack
• Add loads of cool stuff to Militia/ Solar Aux - FW has a multitude of amazing tanks with dubious rules legitimacy in the Heresy, this would sort that
• Sort out Armoured Breakthrough - it's not fun to play against
• Add some marine tank HQs/ new tanks/ RoW
• Add in Daemon Fulgrim and a bit of light on the EC as you could tie Angel Exterminatus into it

[Marshal Rohr]

You won’t like this but essentially I’d be in favor of only anti-tank being able to damage tanks. Make it a special rule that has a little list of applicable weapons.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

Tallarn would be excellent as an oppurtunity to:

 

• Tighten up vehicle rules - they're either fragile to too hard to crack
• Add loads of cool stuff to Militia/ Solar Aux - FW has a multitude of amazing tanks with dubious rules legitimacy in the Heresy, this would sort that
• Sort out Armoured Breakthrough - it's not fun to play against
• Add some marine tank HQs/ new tanks/ RoW
• Add in Daemon Fulgrim and a bit of light on the EC as you could tie Angel Exterminatus into it

 

 

Pretty sure there was mention at one of the HH open days that Tallarn might be a good opportunity to introduce some more Legion medium tanks

[Charlo]

You won’t like this but essentially I’d be in favor of only anti-tank being able to damage tanks. Make it a special rule that has a little list of applicable weapons.

Nah that's *too" much.

 

Plus it's always awesome when you out maneuver a dread and nuke it with bolters in the back