Future Black Book speculation

[ProsperoStands]

When I look into my scrying pool, it keeps on whispering to me that the next book will be the last book in the HH series ...

Despite the fact that FW confirmed they have plans and intentions for around 24 total books.

 

Heresy is not going anywhere.

[Marshal Rohr]

They said that pre-NOVA, though, were it was said Forge World is getting a massive shake up. 

[Charlo]

Considering there's so much content left, nah I don't think that's happening. Plus its still considered the 3rd pillar of earnings alongside 40k/ AoS.

 

Yes I remember Atrementar come under those units not really happening. Mainly as you can already do teleporting Terminators (with LC if you wish) under Night Lords.

[MegaVolt87]

Considering there's so much content left, nah I don't think that's happening. Plus its still considered the 3rd pillar of earnings alongside 40k/ AoS.

 

Yes I remember Atrementar come under those units not really happening. Mainly as you can already do teleporting Terminators (with LC if you wish) under Night Lords.

 

I hope they change their minds. I imagine the legion specific terminators make good money. I love my ten Tyrants, great kit. 

[Marshal Vespasian]

Didnt they say at some point that every legion is supposed to get 2 special praetors, a Levi, a contemptor and a terminator kit? So there ist still some stuff missing.

[talos402000]

You know, I'd like to believe Forge World will continue to produce Black Books for the Heresy, but various people (inside and outside the company) and my gut tell me otherwise. I think Forge World's burned out. Notice how few and far between Heresy releases have been? One more Black Book to do the Dark Angels and then on to Terra and that will be about it i think.

[Taliesin]

Maybe. The problem is that we know nothing at all. We don't know what they are planning with Forgeworld.

It's even possible that in a very worst case scenario, Crusade is the last Black Book. Of course the last info we have from Warhammerfest suggests that is not the case at all. But of course we also know that things change there all the time and that despite the excellent work they produce, FW is hardly a stabile, predictable organization.

 

It's possible that they move to Siege of Terra after "Crusade" ( personally think "Angelus" is a way better title) but at the same time, they might well do a Mars book ( I hope) or some other books first, it all depends on what has caught their fancy/are inspired by and what models they want to release. What would help, is some actual news instead of a the smothering silence that has gone on for a long time now.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Taliesin

[Noserenda]

Considering there's so much content left, nah I don't think that's happening. Plus its still considered the 3rd pillar of earnings alongside 40k/ AoS.

 

Yes I remember Atrementar come under those units not really happening. Mainly as you can already do teleporting Terminators (with LC if you wish) under Night Lords.

30k  is a pillar as a setting, not just one game. Like the BL novels probably pulled in more money than the FW line ever has back when they sold them more widely and i genuinely wouldnt be too surprised to hear AT is out selling 7.5 right now despite them never being able to produce enough product to meet demands. Id personally hope to see it rebuilt as a proper specialist game with a revised rules set and a plastic starter box/budget going forward post FW reorganisation.

 

The second part is the tragic disconnect between the current rules team and the fans, people want to see iconic units from the established fluff rather than some oddball new idea that may or may not work. Bligh certainly seemed to handle it better at least, implying they may be coming along the line maybe; whilst the current folks response about the Sanguinary Guard just dripped contempt. Not an ideal move.

[SickSix]

I hope whatever they do they revisit all the legions and make models and/or rules for some characters we have yet to see. I know the Salamanders don't have a single named character model outside of Vulcan himself. (No the dread doesn't count because that's a Badab era model)

 

PS.

 

I agree with others that the end is probably near. I think probably for two major reasons. The Bligh was the Conductor of the Heresy Train, and he is gone. I think they have been struggling without him. Secondly, the Black Library is going to be done with the Heresy in like two years? I think once the BL heresy series is concluded there isn't going to be a lot of drive in GW proper to keep dragging on supporting the setting.

 

Just my thoughts.

Edited October 7, 2019 by SickSix

[StruManChu]

You guys all know they literally put out a 'Help Wanted' for a Lead Writer for the Heresy series a couple of months back, right?

 

We're good. I doubt very much they'd hire a guy just to close it down with the next book. Why bother, when Anuj and Neil could just do that for two salaries rather than three?

 

Possibly, if I lean into my naive-but-gradually-becoming-rewarded optimism around the nu-GW business method, I'd say it might be about to go really well for 30k. Given there's a big shift coming, if GW take the 30k team out from under Tony Cottrell and make it something that stands on its own (without his accursed meddling), then that would be a huge boon.

 

HOWEVER. I think we may see the end of the 250/300+ page Black Book release once the Legions are all done. Other than Terra, there's just not the need for it. You don't need to bundle four legions into a single book if you can release a smaller,softcover book detailing a single conflict or warzone every four to six months, a la something like a Codex.

 

Does that take some of the prestige away from the product? Probably. Does it make the product more accessible to the wider GW community? Certainly. Is GW wanting to capitalise on a bunch of (angry) people who want to play with 'Proper Space Marines' after the Primaris line replaces classic marines? Again, I'd say so.

 

The problem that 30k's had is that it makes a ton of money, but since Alan Bligh's untimely passing, no one has been able to take the reins of it and lead it somewhere. I'm relatively certain that most of the senior FW guys have lost interest with it - Andy Hoare is all about Necromunda, and Tony C only cares about what he considers 'cool models'*.  That's totally fine, but if you personally don't consider something to be 'cool', and you're the boss, then it gets de-prioritised, even if there's a relatively large customer base still wanting more of your product. GW, on the other hand, rather enjoy money. The 30k game as a whole makes money, moreso than any of the specialist game ranges. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they made a decision along the lines of 'This is too big for you, and you've kinda fluffed it over the last couple of years, so just give it to us and we'll steer for a bit'. 

 

*HH Weekender 2018. 

 

I simply don't believe the future's that bleak. And if it is, then I've got ~50 unbuilt MkII marines from the LCTB fiasco (as well as all the other stuff) that I'll cherish forever. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by StruManChu

[Taliesin]

I hope whatever they do they revisit all the legions and make models and/or rules for some characters we have yet to see. I know the Salamanders don't have a single named character model outside of Vulcan himself. (No the dread doesn't count because that's a Badab era model)

 

PS.

 

I agree with others that the end is probably near. I think probably for two major reasons. The Bligh was the Conductor of the Heresy Train, and he is gone. I think they have been struggling without him. Secondly, the Black Library is going to be done with the Heresy in like two years? I think once the BL heresy series is concluded there isn't going to be a lot of drive in GW proper to keep dragging on supporting the setting.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

I don't think that has any basis in reality. FW are still releasing a fairly steady stream of HH releases, we have a Black Book coming up, and last we know is that they plan many more. In addition, BL isn't going to be done with the Siege of Terra until 2022, and will continue to write books in the Heresy setting after that, they have already said they will continue to do so. And actually with the upcoming Valdor novel by Chris Wraight they said it was the first of more early Heresy novels.

 

What's missing is any sort of clarity right now. No news, no open days no twitch streams, it;s like a blanket's been put over FW and it is natural that this leads to suspicion about FW's status. Plus of course that apparently there is some big announcement coming.

[Marshal Vespasian]

The big announcement might be the reason for the secrecy though.

Are there any more hh Releases left that had been previewed already? The dark angels terminator praetor and their contemptor if I am not mistaken?

 

So the announcement should drop soon tm

Edited October 8, 2019 by Marshal Vespasian

[Noserenda]

I mean its all speculation at the moment isnt it? Lets just say ill be deeply surprised if FW is writing any rules at all going forward. Itll either be Specialist games or the 40k Studio. Which throws the whole black book release model into doubt.

[Darkwrath121]

The big announcement might be the reason for the secrecy though.

Are there any more hh Releases left that had been previewed already? The dark angels terminator praetor and their contemptor if I am not mistaken?

 

So the announcement should drop soon tm

The terminator praetor and contemptor came out two months ago, so the only previewed HH model I can think of that we're waiting on is the Blood Angels jump-contemptor.

 

After that, we await whatever comes next.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Darkwrath121

[Charlo]

 

The big announcement might be the reason for the secrecy though.

Are there any more hh Releases left that had been previewed already? The dark angels terminator praetor and their contemptor if I am not mistaken?

 

So the announcement should drop soon tm

The terminator praetor and contemptor came out two months ago, so the only previewed HH model I can think of that we're waiting on is the Blood Angels jump-contemptor.

 

After that, we await whatever comes next.

And that was a CAD image, not a final one either.

[Suspira Mortis]

What is the source regarding this big announcement?

[Darkwrath121]

 

 

The big announcement might be the reason for the secrecy though.

Are there any more hh Releases left that had been previewed already? The dark angels terminator praetor and their contemptor if I am not mistaken?

 

So the announcement should drop soon tm

The terminator praetor and contemptor came out two months ago, so the only previewed HH model I can think of that we're waiting on is the Blood Angels jump-contemptor.

 

After that, we await whatever comes next.

And that was a CAD image, not a final one either.

 

The CAD was shown at the Weekender, but the finished model was seen at Warhammer Fest.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Oh that completely passed me by actually.

Anyways: If they are running out of things to release that have been previewed already, another preview will have to come at some point?

I am new to the whole heresy thing, so I am a bit unsure as to how the release and teasing process works around these here parts.

[SickSix]

Well all they have left that is expected is the Khan, the Lion, and the DA specific units (terminators and PA specialists).

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Precisely.

 

And yes, FW as a studio is not going anywhere, I agree. 

Ever since they were founded there have been up's and down's over the years, speculations of them being disbanded, reformed, etc. etc.

Hell, there was even a time when players in (official) stores and / or clubs wouldn't play you if you had FW models in your army ... jeez, I recall nearly laughing my behindess off at those rather simple-minded folks.

Nah, FW will linger.

But will they still put out rules for their models, or their own line of books ? Dunno, we'll see about that. 

I for once know that I'm not overly fond of the direction GW's rules writing / design has gone since they messed up 7th ed. 40k and dissolved WHFB entirely.

Which is why I'm exclusively into HH these days (well, and Mortheim ...).

 

Right, so that being said about FW, I still have rather uneasy feelings about the future of the 'Black Book' series, or FW tomes in general.

I wouldn't be surprised if they completed the line of HH tomes with the next one to be honest. I'd then suspect for them to give us one or maybe two books about the Solar War / Siege of Terra ... with that being it in regard to future FW printed publications.

But I hope I'm mistaken ... I really do.

[StrangerOrders]

I confess to being one in the worried camp these days, especially after familiarizing myself with the situation over in FW.

 

Specialists games confuse me as a business model, sure you get a cool model (if you are into the aesthetics of their current ones, I am not) but they are not really that well suited for wargames. And it seems like deliberately spiting your main fanbase for no reason.

 

The troubling thing is that it seems like FW is incredibly fond of poor decision-making and makes some really sketchy calls (helped in no small parts by their current leadership). That the last batch of releases have taken 30ish months to match the number of kits from the first 6 months of the line is similarly disheartening. 

 

I am hoping that this is all gloom and lack-of-MKII-driven doom, but it is hard to be optimistic. 

 

Apologies if this is a necro but I've been on a bit of a research binge ever since I started wanting to collect WSs, realized I couldnt find MKII and began the horrifying look into the situation.

[Marshal Rohr]

Where are you pulling the info about the decision making?

[StrangerOrders]

Where are you pulling the info about the decision making?

Oh I hardly claim to be a master on the subject but to my understanding the FW team handles most of the development for the specialist games and they are steadily increasing the number of games and each warrants a number of releases which you cannot help but compare to the records of 30k releases. Its pretty obvious that the more specialist games are in play, the fewer releases we get, which seems like a poor decision.

 

Along with the fact that books have more or less tripled in production times, and to my understanding they are hanging around the editing stage longer.

 

It just sort of speaks of disinterest, which to my mind seems like a poor decision because I struggle to believe that the Specialists bring in more revenue than 30k.

 

Again, I hardly claim to be a scholar on the subject. I was speaking as to why I am feeling a bit put out. 

 

I also note that the content of the books is getting a bit shabbier, alot of rules dont even get lore behind them these days for example. Consider WS and BAngels.

Edited October 14, 2019 by StrangerOrders

[Marshal Rohr]

I thought you meant like threads or people asking them question at events.

[StrangerOrders]

I thought you meant like threads or people asking them question at events.

Unfortunately, I can't claim to have gone to any events myself and citing those seems unreliable.

 

I mean I have heard that the current leaders are disinterested in the line, one being more interested in whatever he can charge the most for and the other only being into 'cool' models and specialist games. But I can't confirm that so it is as good as hearsay.

 

So I am instead focusing on their actions. That seems like a more reasonable base for analysis. 

 

Forgeworld has been slack in their timelines for 30k while rapidly expanding the workload of their devs with other things. You can also point from one Black Book to another and note the increasing brevity of descriptions and the like. That is provable so that is my stated concern.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable basing my statements off of hearsay alone.