Future Black Book speculation

[MegaVolt87]

 

I thought you meant like threads or people asking them question at events.

Unfortunately, I can't claim to have gone to any events myself and citing those seems unreliable.

 

I mean I have heard that the current leaders are disinterested in the line, one being more interested in whatever he can charge the most for and the other only being into 'cool' models and specialist games. But I can't confirm that so it is as good as hearsay.

 

So I am instead focusing on their actions. That seems like a more reasonable base for analysis. 

 

Forgeworld has been slack in their timelines for 30k while rapidly expanding the workload of their devs with other things. You can also point from one Black Book to another and note the increasing brevity of descriptions and the like. That is provable so that is my stated concern.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable basing my statements off of hearsay alone.

 

 

Outer Circle YT channel did a recent vid about HH/ 30K in response to Kirioth (?). Big take away was, first four years of releases compared to last three, vast reduction in releases for HH overall due to various factors we the public know about already. 

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

I thought you meant like threads or people asking them question at events.

Unfortunately, I can't claim to have gone to any events myself and citing those seems unreliable.

 

I mean I have heard that the current leaders are disinterested in the line, one being more interested in whatever he can charge the most for and the other only being into 'cool' models and specialist games. But I can't confirm that so it is as good as hearsay.

 

So I am instead focusing on their actions. That seems like a more reasonable base for analysis. 

 

Forgeworld has been slack in their timelines for 30k while rapidly expanding the workload of their devs with other things. You can also point from one Black Book to another and note the increasing brevity of descriptions and the like. That is provable so that is my stated concern.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable basing my statements off of hearsay alone.

 

 

Outer Circle YT channel did a recent vid about HH/ 30K in response to Kirioth (?). Big take away was, first four years of releases compared to last three, vast reduction in releases for HH overall due to various factors we the public know about already. 

 

How good is the channel? Do they do alot of 30k?

 

Been looking for something like that forever and it would be pretty cool to have a YT channel for 30k vids other than actual games.

[MegaVolt87]

I think the guy has a bit of a chip on his shoulder + can be a bit of a salt miner at times, though he lays down hard truths about GW at large though and is quite blunt, he is an Aussie as well so expect some colorful language. Overall that vid he did I mentioned is worth a watch though if you were only going to watch one. Yes he dose do quite a bit of general 30K content. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by MegaVolt87

[StrangerOrders]

I think the guy has a bit of a chip on his shoulder + can be a bit of a salt miner at times, though he lays down hard truths about GW at large though and is quite blunt, he is an Aussie as well so expect some colorful language. Overall that vid he did I mentioned is worth a watch though if you were only going to watch one. Yes he dose do quite a bit of general 30K content. 

Salt is a bit regrettable but I will give him a shot

[Charlo]

I think we're in the calm before the storm personally.

 

Yes it's a bit of a drought but once the dust settles in internal stuff at GW (new offices, new staff, "big announcement" etc) the heresy will come out swinging again.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Outer circle is pretty cool about Tactics and General 30k stuff, yeah. Also his getting started and knowing your xy series are pretty cool. As well as is it :cuss

 

Also Kind of an edgelord, but still worth watching for some info

Edited October 17, 2019 by Marshal Vespasian

[StrangerOrders]

Watched a few of his vids, he is interesting and seems to be really knowledgeable.

 

But ya, he is a bit grim and it unnerves me that aside from his language it is hard to contest his points.

 

That takedown of the current quality model with comparison pieces was especially disheartening.

 

I would love to know his sourcing for his takes on the current staff at Forgeworld though, because it is extremely disconcerting if he is even a bit right.

[Marshal Rohr]

We know from vox cast specialist games is divided into teams of writers and teams of sculptors. Horus Heresy is Neil, Anuj, the new lead writer (if they hired one) and the sculptors are Simon and whoever made the Keshig/Paladins, etc. that’s all they have. They do not have a plastics designer that they’ve revealed. I don’t think it’s a matter of GW just letting it die off, anyone with job experience in a project focused environment will know when leadership changes and an interim is calling the shots it extends finished work by huge times. Edited October 20, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[StrangerOrders]

We know from vox cast specialist games is divided into teams of writers and teams of sculptors. Horus Heresy is Neil, Anuj, the new lead writer (if they hired one) and the sculptors are Simon and whoever made the Keshig/Paladins, etc. that’s all they have. They do not have a plastics designer that they’ve revealed.

I am no expert on the industry.

 

But for the amount of interest 30k generates, it seems like 5 people is a bit small.

 

Especially given what we pay on average and their own statements on earnings. It actually makes me really nervous if that is true and honestly kind of... idk, irked? Especially if all of the specialist games get more support and to my understanding dont bring in as much.

 

Btw, has anyone heard anything about MKII or chestplates coming back? 

 

Edit: I am sorry, what was that about an interim? 

Edited October 20, 2019 by StrangerOrders

[Marshal Rohr]

When you have a temporary manager over a specific project team that is not into the details of the project you get instances of them changing directions, cutting things, altering policies, etc. At my job we recently had a pure business guy who’s only experience was watching Swordfish come in an change a bunch of things and cause huge issues until the company we contract for had to step in.

[StrangerOrders]

When you have a temporary manager over a specific project team that is not into the details of the project you get instances of them changing directions, cutting things, altering policies, etc. At my job we recently had a pure business guy who’s only experience was watching Swordfish come in an change a bunch of things and cause huge issues until the company we contract for had to step in.

Oof, I knew that the guy had a pure money attitude but I didnt know he was an inexperienced temp without an eye for detail.

 

That is fairly disconcerting.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

When you have a temporary manager over a specific project team that is not into the details of the project you get instances of them changing directions, cutting things, altering policies, etc. At my job we recently had a pure business guy who’s only experience was watching Swordfish come in an change a bunch of things and cause huge issues until the company we contract for had to step in.

Oof, I knew that the guy had a pure money attitude but I didnt know he was an inexperienced temp without an eye for detail.

 

That is fairly disconcerting.

It’s not that Tony sucks or is a pure money guy, it’s that his passion is big models like the warlord. Forge World was always a big tank and airplane company. Things like Elysians and Krieg were popular enough to justify having people sculpt them and maintain the molds back in the day, but now the Heresy is it’s own game system. Necromunda, Blood Bowl, etc require one single sprue for the plastic kits. That sprue is duplicated and boxed and sold. Titans require a tank sprue, Aeronautica are more like Necromunda gangs. Same model and options, 2 sprues per box. That’s the product model. Heresy uses the GW main product model. 3 unique sprues per box, be it 5 terminators or 10 marines. That’s a larger production footprint. That’s why I’m thinking what we are going to see is a mark 2 box, and then maybe nothing else. The other units and special stuff becomes resin upgrades. I don’t know but I know the fact there is a ‘big announcement’ coming is either going to be a revamp or the deathblow of the Heresy. At this point I don’t even care if they bring it into 8th Edition so the carpet baggers come back, I’ll just houserule templates and vehicles facings. Edited October 20, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[armarnis]

Yeah were is that big announcement anyways? Went quite quiet about that i feel. When they said there comes a big message i expected it to drop soon not some MONTHS later...

[Noserenda]

Yeah it has been "soon" for a worryingly long time. 

On profitability, reports and behaviour certainly indicates the SGs are pulling in considerably more money for FW these days than HH, which is why i suspect its going to be repackaged into that mould, probably after the next black book.

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah it has been "soon" for a worryingly long time. 

On profitability, reports and behaviour certainly indicates the SGs are pulling in considerably more money for FW these days than HH, which is why i suspect its going to be repackaged into that mould, probably after the next black book.

It's that old cliche, you gotta spend money to make money. It's going to specialist games over HH, so it's amusing seeing suprised pikachu face from GW corporate with lower HH sales as a result.

[b1soul]

Man, I always thought each Black Book has been a cash cow

[StrangerOrders]

Man, I always thought each Black Book has been a cash cow

Ditto, its kind of disheartening because they are filled to the brim with great lore.

 

Each time a Legion or other faction gets a Black Book I feel like that entire section of the lore just got brand new life breathed into it.

 

The Iron Hands got more character out of their chapter than in most of the HH tbh.

 

Also, every legion got some snazy art.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Black Books that sell out give a return (three so far I believe) since they are priced to make a profit. Maybe it was just two that sold through. Can’t remember atm.

 

 

Edit: Just checked, it was three. Conquest, Tempest, and Retribution all had to go softback because they cleaned out the stock of hardback.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[No Foes Remain]

 

Man, I always thought each Black Book has been a cash cow

Ditto, its kind of disheartening because they are filled to the brim with great lore.

 

Each time a Legion or other faction gets a Black Book I feel like that entire section of the lore just got brand new life breathed into it.

 

The Iron Hands got more character out of their chapter than in most of the HH tbh.

 

Also, every legion got some snazy art.

 

 

The lore and the snazy art are the reason I buy the black books (and the latter was the reason why I was slightly disapointed by book 8) as I don't have a gaming group. There are going to be others like me who buy the book for the fluffy contents rather than the rules.

[lionofjudah]

As a heresy fan since RT it has been a while lot of fun to watch the train start and begin it's journey. I've been giddy over the years watching all the new olde gear come out, new tanks, characters, books and watching FW push our new release s like they couldn't stop themselves... Heck, 1 guy sculpted and wrote an entire new army for us, thanks Israel

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

Man, I always thought each Black Book has been a cash cow

Ditto, its kind of disheartening because they are filled to the brim with great lore.

 

Each time a Legion or other faction gets a Black Book I feel like that entire section of the lore just got brand new life breathed into it.

 

The Iron Hands got more character out of their chapter than in most of the HH tbh.

 

Also, every legion got some snazy art.

 

 

The lore and the snazy art are the reason I buy the black books (and the latter was the reason why I was slightly disapointed by book 8) as I don't have a gaming group. There are going to be others like me who buy the book for the fluffy contents rather than the rules.

 

Once all is said and done, I would totally buy some sort of mega-history book that is just a compilation of all the Legion Appendices with more art tbh.

 

I've got most of the books but ti sort of ripped my heart out that Tempest is gone to softback since that is one of the ones I havent been able to buy yet.

 

Funny thing is that one aspect I dig about 30k is something that 40k is slowly killing off. I love that each Legion operate with different units and radically different aesthetic preferences.

 

40k has slowly been axing the idea of custom units with the Primaris (and their rather... 'sedate' upgrade packs), it saddens me because my pipedream was for every one of the nine progenitors to become their own true codex with custom units and unique models like the SW and BA have. Given how long its been since either of those two has got anything unique, I feel like we are on the brink of seeing GW roll them up and do away with their codexes. The idea of supplements just doesn't do anything for me, neither does getting some slightly different shoulders and maybe a slightly distinct sergeant to accompany one HQ.

 

But with 30k, every Legion feels unique and impossible to mistake for another. Even the Ultramarines themselves are infinitely more distinct and identity-filled than their 40k things. 

 

Heck, in a perfect world I would love to see the big segments of each faction get that sort of treatment. Iyanden shouldn't look like Biel-Tan, Necrons should have distinct motif preferences (what sort of noble wants their army of poor people looking like another's mass of poor people?).

 

Tbh, there is also an element of the fact that the Forgeworld art style just seems more beautiful to me.

[Noserenda]

I think in 40k they are putting resources into broadening all the factions out to where Marines have been historically rules wise which is really nice. I mean looking back with hindsight it seems obviously a good idea really! I also suspect Chapter specific Primaris units are inevitable down the line, though Characters are a LOT easier for GW to put out there mid-term.

 

Black book wise the fluff and art is a high point in GWs entire history, if only they werent so damn unwieldy theyd be a perfect sourcebook imho, but army building and playing games with them was a big pain, especially before the Red books came, so its a conflicted legacy for me. I honestly havent bought the newest one so couldnt comment on the post Bligh changes.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Slips
Removed bickering.

[Indefragable]

I’m not one to throw shade, but at the last (2019) Weekender Tony was the absolute low point of the whole thing. All the staff—writers, sculptors, event staff—were al like “make sure you tell Tony what you want to see more of!” And when the community pretty much pulled out their wallets telling him exactly what they wanted he just seemed dismissive and flippant. As someone who’s gotten some interesting snapshots of how the business world works, I have rarely seen someone so completely disconnected from his customer base...or willfully ignorant. To be honest, I might feel better if it were the latter since then he could be the corporate stooge set up to play dumb and “block” while the company does stuff behind the scenes. It’s a roll nobody likes, but a role nonetheless.

 

The actual “doers” of FW: the writers, sculptors, etc... on the other hand seemed to “get it” and quite approachable and willing to answer the heart of our questions, even if they had gag orders not to answer the letter of them. They give me quite a bit of hope for the future of HH. I believe them when they say the vision is for book 9 to be 1/3 of the way through what they have in mind...

 

...I just think there’s some rocky road ahead while staff changes get sorted out. Think of a major sports team that has turnover at the manager/coach level...it takes time for them to get their groove back. While GW should be kept on a short rope for a lot of things, this is one area I do think some moderate slack is warranted.

 

As for what I’d like to see in future Black Books? I want to see the Heresy unfold and how all it’s moments, from the gigantic set pieces to the little skirmishs have tendril effects to “present day” 40k. On the other hand, I want to see the kinds of stuff that can only happen in 30k: Legions fighting as Legions, Primarchs doing the stuff of legend, and so on. The kind of stuff that makes us thing of the Mythical age that it was in-universe. I personally would also love to see all the character we know and love/hate from BL get some sort of rules treatment. Though I thought it was pretty good overall, a huge disappointment about book 8 for me was the lack of Targutai Yesugei. I mean, he’s pretty much the most iconic White Scar out there yet no rules? C’mon, man! I get that they want to showcase others than the big names, but then why did they do Erebus and Kor Phaeron and some other dude for the Word Bearers? If they drop feed them out then I am happy. I would also love to get rules adjustments/updates/tweaks as well, but I suppose that’s more FAQ territory.

[Charlo]

Tony very much feels like "Old GW", by which I mean he's tight lipped and likes to sell big expensive models. He's not as savvy as new GWs attitude of being friendly, inclusive and using teases etc. Though I imagine he must be like this as he's the boss, ultimately it rests on him so he cannot give anything away etc.

 

We'll no doubt get a book 9 release in Feb with some book 10 teases at the weekender too and what they reveal there will be incredibly telling.

 

Let's not forget there is a new head writer now handling the Heresy, which could be incredibly exciting!

[Marshal Rohr]

Wasn’t the LCTB clean out his idea because they had to clear space? Which is why all the upgrade stuff bit the dust but not the big kits like random 40k superheavies? Edited October 29, 2019 by Marshal Rohr