Appreciating Tarik Torgaddon (Spoilers)

[t-dog1996]

So after many years of never getting around to it I finally started reading the Horus Heresy. I just reached the part in False Gods where Torgaddon refuses to help the warrior lodge throw Loken under the bus. I was worried for a moment that he would agree, and felt like cheering when he told them to get stuffed. I've been on the fence about him as a character thus far, but he's firmly placed himself in the top tier now. What a bro.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

damn you laggin behind bro

[Roomsky]

I didn't really appreciate Tarik until False Gods. His personality is more in your face (and perhaps simplified) in that book, and Horus Rising was my first 40k book so he didn't make much of an impression while I struggled to keep up with learning the setting. I absolutely recommend giving Horus Rising a re-read down the line though, Tarik is honestly at his best there despite being less straightforwardly a joker.

 

But yes, he is probably the king of bro moments in series.

[bluntblade]

I echo Roomsky, but would add that Tarik peaked in his stand-off with Eidolon. It's a superbly written scene and the humour has some real barbs.

[t-dog1996]

damn you laggin behind bro

 

Yes indeed. It was actually this fact that, for a long time, kept me from getting started. With the end of the series however, I figured I might as well get started now or I never would. I don't expect to read the entire series of course, but it would be nice to get a firm grounding before I get into the new Siege of Terra series. I've been told that the first five HH books are basically mandatory, but do you have any recommendations beyond that?

 

I didn't really appreciate Tarik until False Gods. His personality is more in your face (and perhaps simplified) in that book, and Horus Rising was my first 40k book so he didn't make much of an impression while I struggled to keep up with learning the setting. I absolutely recommend giving Horus Rising a re-read down the line though, Tarik is honestly at his best there despite being less straightforwardly a joker.

 

But yes, he is probably the king of bro moments in series.

 

He did pass me by a bit in Horus Rising, although I agree with bluntblade that his interaction with Eidolon was excellent. Looking back, I do now recognise that he was always Loken's staunchest friend. One thing that has put me off Black Library books in the past has been a tendency for them to read like detailed battle reports. I've been pleasantly surprised by how well-written most of the characters are, and how both the books I've read so far have been much more about interactions between the characters and exploring the setting than simply killing Xenos.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

damn you laggin behind bro

 

Yes indeed. It was actually this fact that, for a long time, kept me from getting started. With the end of the series however, I figured I might as well get started now or I never would. I don't expect to read the entire series of course, but it would be nice to get a firm grounding before I get into the new Siege of Terra series. I've been told that the first five HH books are basically mandatory, but do you have any recommendations beyond that? 

When you get to them, all of Chris Wraight's WS works are amazing. Guy Haley is always a solid read as well with Titandeath and Wolfsbane (greatly enjoyed the latter, liked both though).

 

Imma be honest, you could probably skip over Tallarn. The DA stuff gets built on later so the early DA novels are a 'yeah probably' from me. The Imperium Secundus arc as well. That's off the top of my head.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I quite liked tallarn. Its pretty standalone, but incredibly well written. Also you get some insight into volk and argonis for slaves to darkness

[Tarvek Val]

Tarik is a good character, his use of humor and sense of loyalty made him stand out to me. Echoing the general sentiment in the room, I think his confrontation of Eidolon (who I absolutely despise as a character) really made brought him to life on the page.

 

In response to your question...

 

I've been told that the first five HH books are basically mandatory, but do you have any recommendations beyond that?

 

The First Heretic and Betrayer are must-reads for me. Scars, Path of Heaven, Angel Exterminatus, A Thousand Sons, and Master of Mankind are other favorites of mine.

[carlisimo]

I’m not sure Flight of the Eisenstein is mandatory. It wouldn’t make it onto my list, which is actually a difficult list to put together. I guess I’m including books that I either really liked or are pretty relevant to the Siege of Terra since that’s what you’re probably getting ready for.

 

Opening trilogy

Fulgrim (and optionally Angel Exterminatus)

Legion (good Imperial Army story, frustrating but significant Alpha Legion stuff)

A Thousand Sons + Prospero Burns

The First Heretic + Betrayer

Know No Fear

Fear to Tread (or read Forge World’s 30k book Malevolence)

Shadows of Treachery (compilation, included here largely for The Crimson Fist)

Scars & The Path of Heaven (preceded by the novella Brotherhood of the Storm, which can be found in Legacies of Betrayal - if you like Scars, I’d read it before moving on to The Path of Heaven. I’d also read the short stories The Last Son of Prospero and especially Restorer after The Path of Heaven).

Vengeful Spirit

Praetorian of Dorn

The Master of Mankind (I think this one works better after reading The Path of Heaven)

Wolfsbane

Slaves to Darkness

Titandeath (chronologically set before Slaves to Darkness)

 

If that’s too much, I suppose I’d drop Fulgrim, Legion (get spoilers though), Prospero Burns, and Wolfsbane. They’re all relatively divisive books. Fear to Tread isn’t widely loved but the characters will probably be important during the Siege and Sanginius in all the subsequent books has been excessively mopey.

 

I’m skipping the Imperium Secundus arc here because I didn’t enjoy it. The Dark Angels and Raven Guard novels are passable and probably worth reading if you’re into those legions. Mechanicum was important but pretty standalone, and I found at least one of the story arcs downright confusing. I didn’t quite ‘get’ the book. Tallarn isn’t necessary but the first novella, Executioner, is a great tank story. Nemesis and The Outcast Dead have fans, they’re just about unusual topics and are more about background that story progression.

[Angel_of_Blood]

I’m not sure Flight of the Eisenstein is mandatory. It wouldn’t make it onto my list, which is actually a difficult list to put together. I guess I’m including books that I either really liked or are pretty relevant to the Siege of Terra since that’s what you’re probably getting ready for.

 

Opening trilogy

Fulgrim (and optionally Angel Exterminatus)

Legion (good Imperial Army story, frustrating but significant Alpha Legion stuff)

A Thousand Sons + Prospero Burns

The First Heretic + Betrayer

Know No Fear

Fear to Tread (or read Forge World’s 30k book Malevolence)

Shadows of Treachery (compilation, included here largely for The Crimson Fist)

Scars & The Path of Heaven (preceded by the novella Brotherhood of the Storm, which can be found in Legacies of Betrayal - if you like Scars, I’d read it before moving on to The Path of Heaven. I’d also read the short stories The Last Son of Prospero and especially Restorer after The Path of Heaven).

Vengeful Spirit

Praetorian of Dorn

The Master of Mankind (I think this one works better after reading The Path of Heaven)

Wolfsbane

Slaves to Darkness

Titandeath (chronologically set before Slaves to Darkness)

 

If that’s too much, I suppose I’d drop Fulgrim, Legion (get spoilers though), Prospero Burns, and Wolfsbane. They’re all relatively divisive books. Fear to Tread isn’t widely loved but the characters will probably be important during the Siege and Sanginius in all the subsequent books has been excessively mopey.

 

I’m skipping the Imperium Secundus arc here because I didn’t enjoy it. The Dark Angels and Raven Guard novels are passable and probably worth reading if you’re into those legions. Mechanicum was important but pretty standalone, and I found at least one of the story arcs downright confusing. I didn’t quite ‘get’ the book. Tallarn isn’t necessary but the first novella, Executioner, is a great tank story. Nemesis and The Outcast Dead have fans, they’re just about unusual topics and are more about background that story progression.

 

I'd disagree, as FotE sets up Garro and continues the arc of Keeler, Mersadie and Synderman. All of whom are going to be very relevant to the Siege novels.

[Indefragable]

I’m not sure Flight of the Eisenstein is mandatory. It wouldn’t make it onto my list, which is actually a difficult list to put together. I guess I’m including books that I either really liked or are pretty relevant to the Siege of Terra since that’s what you’re probably getting ready for.

 

Opening trilogy

Fulgrim (and optionally Angel Exterminatus)

Legion (good Imperial Army story, frustrating but significant Alpha Legion stuff)

A Thousand Sons + Prospero Burns

The First Heretic + Betrayer

Know No Fear

Fear to Tread (or read Forge World’s 30k book Malevolence)

Shadows of Treachery (compilation, included here largely for The Crimson Fist)

Scars & The Path of Heaven (preceded by the novella Brotherhood of the Storm, which can be found in Legacies of Betrayal - if you like Scars, I’d read it before moving on to The Path of Heaven. I’d also read the short stories The Last Son of Prospero and especially Restorer after The Path of Heaven).

Vengeful Spirit

Praetorian of Dorn

The Master of Mankind (I think this one works better after reading The Path of Heaven)

Wolfsbane

Slaves to Darkness

Titandeath (chronologically set before Slaves to Darkness)

 

If that’s too much, I suppose I’d drop Fulgrim, Legion (get spoilers though), Prospero Burns, and Wolfsbane. They’re all relatively divisive books. Fear to Tread isn’t widely loved but the characters will probably be important during the Siege and Sanginius in all the subsequent books has been excessively mopey.

 

I’m skipping the Imperium Secundus arc here because I didn’t enjoy it. The Dark Angels and Raven Guard novels are passable and probably worth reading if you’re into those legions. Mechanicum was important but pretty standalone, and I found at least one of the story arcs downright confusing. I didn’t quite ‘get’ the book. Tallarn isn’t necessary but the first novella, Executioner, is a great tank story. Nemesis and The Outcast Dead have fans, they’re just about unusual topics and are more about background that story progression.

That’s actually a pretty solid list.

 

I would consider adding Ruinstorm maaaybe since otherwise the BA would just appear at Terra without better insight into why that’s kind of a big deal.

 

 

I’ve said it in other places, but for my money, Path of Heaven is the peak of the series. It’s the Empire Strikes Back of the HH books. Well worth building up to and saving it for its place in the series.

[Orwell84]

I’ve said it in other places, but for my money, Path of Heaven is the peak of the series. It’s the Empire Strikes Back of the HH books. Well worth building up to and saving it for its place in the series.

 

 

I'm re-reading Path of Heaven right now and agree with this totally. Having re-read all of its predecessors over the past fortnight I've come to believe that the White Scars story arc is probably the most consistent and well-written in the entire HH series, IMHO.

 

As far as Tarik goes, he doesn't show up but one of the WS characters is a similar spirit. Shiban Khan demonstrates the same loyalty and positive energy in his early appearances, later suffering the same erosion of good cheer as I recall Tarik undergoing.

 

If you're interested in tackling the White Scars arc after you're finished with the opening pentalogy, I'd suggest the following order:

 

Brotherhood of the Storm > Scars > "Allegiance" > "Brotherhood of the Moon" > "Grey Talon" > The Path of Heaven*

 

Timeline-wise that'll take you from circa Isstvan V right into the middle of the war.

 

Overall, the White Scars have much in common with Tarik - generally humorous, good-natured and loyal to their comrades and the Warmaster. Until corrupted Horus and Chaos got their claws in them, and the first two qualities withered in the fires of civil strife.

 

 

* "Restorer" is a sequel to PoH but I haven't read it yet (waiting for it to appear in yet another short story collection).

[bluntblade]

It's in Heralds of the Siege, so your luck's in :)

[Orwell84]

It's in Heralds of the Siege, so your luck's in

 

No such luck. "Restorer" isn't in any omnibus thus far, and now that the numbered series has ended I suspect it and the remaining shorts won't be seen in any collected editions

[Ascanius]

 

I've been told that the first five HH books are basically mandatory, but do you have any recommendations beyond that?

 

I keep a list of novels I think are both a) good and  important to the overall story saved for just this reason:

 

Horus Rising (1)

False Gods (2)

Galaxy in Flames (3)

The Flight of the Eisenstein (4)

Fulgrim (5)

Legion (7)

A Thousand Sons (12)

The First Heretic (14)

Prospero Burns (15)

Know No Fear (19)

Betrayer (24)

Unremembered Empire (27)

Scars (28)

Pharos (34)

The Path of Heaven (36)

Praetorian of Dorn (39)

The Master of Mankind (41)

Garro (42)

The Crimson King (44)

Ruinstorm (46)

Wolfsbane (49)

Slaves to Darkness (51)

The Buried Dagger (54)

 

This list only includes novels in the main sequence, not short story collections or any other connected works. There are novels not on this list I think are good but don't connect strongly to the main narrative of the civil war, and likewise novels with relevance to the main story that I don't think are very good.

 

If you're looking to cut this list down a bit, you can skip Garro and The Buried Dagger if you want. Maybe The Crimson King and Wolfsbane, as well, if you're happy to pick up the thread with the characters involved when they resurface later.

 

I definitely wouldn't skip any novel by Abnett, Dembski-Bowden, Wraight, or French, though.

 

Edit: One good reason to keep The Flight of the Eisenstein is that otherwise you don't get any perspective on the reaction to the Heresy on Terra until Praetorian of Dorn.

[b1soul]

@ Orwell84

 

I'd also throw Warhawk, Little Horus, and Last Son of Prospero into the mix

 

The WS arc is really the most consistently well-written in the HH series

[lokkorex]

Anything by Chris Wraight and Aaron Dembski-Bowden, as well as Know no Fear is what I ca't recommend enough. I'm a bit on the fence about Angel Exterminatus and the Tallarn books, maybe pick 'em up if you see them cheap somewhere? I'm a die-hard Iron Warriors fan, but I have mixed feelings about those last mentioned books.

[bluntblade]

Ascanius, I disagree on the Terra front. The Lightning Tower is also handy (though the whole anthology which contains it is pretty vital, I'd say)

[Ascanius]

My list deliberately only includes novels, primarily because if someone's looking for a limited selection it doesn't make sense to me to recommend short story collections - especially when most anthologies only have a few stories which are both good and essential to the "main narrative". I'm not saying it's the only way, just the one I picked.

 

The Flight of the Eisenstein is important to the narrative because of Terra, Saint Euphrati Keeler, and the first signs of Chaos corruption of the Legions.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Ahh Tarik.. Man he is a great character. You all touched on great scenes but his best is in GiF. His last words to lil Horus.

 

 

The two warriors faced one another, and Torgaddon could see a look of regret flash across Little Horus's face.

 

'Why are you doing this?' asked Torgaddon.

 

'You said you were against us,' replied Aximand.

 

'And we are.'

 

Both warriors lowered their guards; they were brothers, members of the Moumival who had seen so many battles together that there was no need for posturing. They both knew how the other fought.

 

Tarik,’ said Aximand, 'if this could have ended another way, we would have taken it. None of us would have chosen this way,’

 

'Little Horus, when did you realise how far you had gone? Was it when the Warmaster told you we were going to be bombed, or some time before?'

 

Aximand glanced over to where Loken and Abaddon fought. 'You can walk away from this, Tarik. The Warmaster wants Loken dead, but he said nothing about you.'

 

Torgaddon laughed. 'We called you Little Horus because you looked so like him, but we were wrong. Horus never had that doubt in his eyes. You're not sure, Aximand. Maybe you're on the wrong side. Maybe this is the last chance you've got to end your life as a Space Marine and not as a slave,’

 

Aximand smiled bleakly. 'I've seen it, Tarik, the warp. You can't stand against that,’

 

'And yet here I am,’

 

'If you had just taken the chance the lodge gave you, you would have seen it too. They can give us such power. If you only knew, Tarik, you'd join us in a second. The whole future would be laid out before you,’

 

You know I can't back down. No more than you can,’

 

Then this is it?'

 

Yes, it is. As you said, none of us would have chosen this,’

 

Aximand readied himself. 'Just like the practice cages, Tarik,’ 'No,’ said Torgaddon, 'nothing like that.'

 

 

Aximand readied himself. 'Just like the practice cages, Tarik,’ 'No,’ said Torgaddon, 'nothing like that.'

 

 

 

The look on Tarik's face must have been haunting.

 

 

 

Btw the best story in the HH was Iron within. From Age of Darkness.

[Trevak Dal]

Was that the one with Dantioc?

[mc warhammer]

Ahh Tarik.. Man he is a great character. You all touched on great scenes but his best is in GiF. His last words to lil Horus.

 

 

The two warriors faced one another, and Torgaddon could see a look of regret flash across Little Horus's face.

 

'Why are you doing this?' asked Torgaddon.

 

'You said you were against us,' replied Aximand.

 

'And we are.'

 

Both warriors lowered their guards; they were brothers, members of the Moumival who had seen so many battles together that there was no need for posturing. They both knew how the other fought.

 

Tarik,’ said Aximand, 'if this could have ended another way, we would have taken it. None of us would have chosen this way,’

 

'Little Horus, when did you realise how far you had gone? Was it when the Warmaster told you we were going to be bombed, or some time before?'

 

Aximand glanced over to where Loken and Abaddon fought. 'You can walk away from this, Tarik. The Warmaster wants Loken dead, but he said nothing about you.'

 

Torgaddon laughed. 'We called you Little Horus because you looked so like him, but we were wrong. Horus never had that doubt in his eyes. You're not sure, Aximand. Maybe you're on the wrong side. Maybe this is the last chance you've got to end your life as a Space Marine and not as a slave,’

 

Aximand smiled bleakly. 'I've seen it, Tarik, the warp. You can't stand against that,’

 

'And yet here I am,’

 

'If you had just taken the chance the lodge gave you, you would have seen it too. They can give us such power. If you only knew, Tarik, you'd join us in a second. The whole future would be laid out before you,’

 

You know I can't back down. No more than you can,’

 

Then this is it?'

 

Yes, it is. As you said, none of us would have chosen this,’

 

Aximand readied himself. 'Just like the practice cages, Tarik,’ 'No,’ said Torgaddon, 'nothing like that.'

 

 

Aximand readied himself. 'Just like the practice cages, Tarik,’ 'No,’ said Torgaddon, 'nothing like that.'

 

as much as i’m not a fan of this book or the writing, this is a very nice bit of writing

 

The look on Tarik's face must have been haunting.

 

 

 

Btw the best story in the HH was Iron within. From Age of Darkness.

as much as i’m not a fan of this book, this is a very nice bit of writing

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Was that the one with Dantioc?

Aye.  The fortress in a astroid field, on the roof....