Cults and allies - pros and cons

[Rogue]

Hello

 

I've been playing around with my Cult list, and have reached a point where I could go different ways with a couple of groups - namely, massed genestealers with a patriarch, and a trio of Leman Russ battle tanks. I can either get these units as part of the cult list, or dip into the Tyranid and Guard lists to include them as allies.

 

Genestealers:

• Cult genestealers have the ambush ability, benefit from things like the relic icon and primus aura, and have a better version of the patriarch. However, they cost 15 points each, are elites, and don't benefit from cult creeds.
• Tyranid genestealers are just 12 points, and do get hive fleet bonuses. They're troops, and allow me to run a battalion rather than a vanguard. They lose the ambush and the other bits listed above. If I get the broodlord rather than the patriarch, then he doesn't have to be the warlord (which is handy when he's likely to die gloriously in combat at some point).

Cults give me the potential for S5 stealers hitting on 1s (so still 2s even against -1 to hit), and even deny the witch. They have a very flexible deployment, can deep strike, the works. But the lack of cult creeds means that subterranean charges are less than 50%.

But Tyranids gives me more bodies for less points, and if I'm charging up the table as a distraction, then bodies matter, especially if you drop catalyst on them. Plus they'd have either a reliable advance, or a charge reroll.

 

Leman Russ:

• Cult Russes also have the ambush ability.
• Guard Russes can be tank commanders, giving BS3+ and tank orders. And if I take three, they can be a supreme command detachment.

So here, I trade off ambushing tanks at BS4+ for regular deployment at 3+ rerolling 1s. Which feels worthwhile for my big guns.

 

In my particular army, a full cult list is two battalions and a vanguard (the genestealers). In the alternate, allied version, it's three battalions (because the stealers become troops) and a supreme command, for a bonus 5 CPs. But less synergy, and less deployment trickery.

 

It's also pretty gamey (depending on your views on xenos soup), but that doesn't stop me wanting to play around with numbers, even if i don't choose to use them later on.

 

Anyone care to offer any thoughts?

[Marshlands]

The non GSC versions of both are better IMO for both for the reasons you have said, if harder to fit in a list sometimes.

[Exilyth]

If you want

• to stay pure GSC
• to ambush leman russes
• to run more than 3 of a unit (e.g. cult leman russes AND guard leman russes)
• or can not spare the additional detachments

then go with the GSC versions of the units.

 

Otherwise, I'd recommend taking leman russes (as tank commanders if possible) from astra militarum and genestealers from tyranids.

 

 

It is imho a bit sad that the namesake unit of GSC is weaker in their own codex.

[brother_b]

If you want

• to stay pure GSC
• to ambush leman russes
• to run more than 3 of a unit (e.g. cult leman russes AND guard leman russes)
• or can not spare the additional detachments

then go with the GSC versions of the units.

 

Otherwise, I'd recommend taking leman russes (as tank commanders if possible) from astra militarum and genestealers from tyranids.

 

 

It is imho a bit sad that the namesake unit of GSC is weaker in their own codex.

I don’t have the tyranid códex how are their GS more powerful? Because of army traits?

[Marshlands]

Traits + price + strategems and buffs

 

Kraken stealers can realistically move 20" and charge

 

40" with swarmlord

 

If they don't charge they could go another 20" instead

 

If they do charge and kill something they can go 20" afterwards

 

They're fairly quick.

[Rogue]

brother_b

 

The genestealers themselves have the same stat-line in both Cult and Nid armies, and the same basic set of abilities - flurry of claws, swift and deadly, lightning reflexes.

 

Cult 'stealers can be buffed, but because they don't benefit from cult creeds, it's only via character auras. These can be handy - surrounded by the right people, relics and spells, they can run at +2 to hit, +2 strength, +1 attack, can deny the witch and more - but are dependent on others being in the right place at the right time.

 

Nid 'stealers get hive fleet adaptations, so can be powered up in their own right. This could confer rerollable charges, or the best-of-three-dice advance thing, and makes them much better at what they already do well. Plus, Nid 'stealers are troops, so they get objective secured, can make up a battalion, and don't take up elite slots (which Cult armies have a lot of options for already).

 

And on top of all that, Nid 'stealers are 3 points cheaper, which amounts to 25 'stealers for every 20 that the Cults can field. And the Nid version gets a free acid maw (power sword equivalent) for every four models.

 

The only real advantage Cult 'stealers have is cult ambush, but as they're always charging at least 8" even with a clamavus, they've got a less than 50% chance of making it into combat, so that's not an ideal option.