Ignatius Numen Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 3000 pts Head of the Gorgon HQ 225 pts Warlord Autek Mor 130 pts Master of signal Artificer armour Refractor field Cyber familiar 100 pts Damocles command rhino TROOPS 175 pts 10 man Tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport 175 pts 10 man tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport ELITES 399 pts Medusan immortals x 20 Volkite chargers x 17 Graviton guns x 2 Sgt artificer armour and TH 735 pts 10 man Gorgan Terminator squad Chainfist 2 grav guns Cyber familiar Spartan dedicated transport HEAVY SUPPORT 410 pts Vindicator seige squadron x 3 tanks Squadron command tank Extra armour 500 pts Medusan seige guns x 3 Squadron command tank 290 pts Legion Heavy Support Squad x10 Augury scanner 10 missile launchers Total 3,139 pts Alrighty then. I'm making aHOG list for 3000 pts. And as tallied I'm over 139 pts and need to shave some. Here is my plan of attack: Holding the home end is the stubborn Medusan immortals that can weather so so much dakka and they are protecting the Medusa seige guns that will be pounding the oncomers with tank hunting shells. Mor will give the immortals preferred enemy. The also stubborn missile heavy support squad will also be in the back end hopefully in some ruins and accompanying them is the master of signal to call down his bombardment and boost the bs of the missile squad which if theirs any deepstriking enemy they will get a rude welcome from my Augury scanner. The damocles command rhino is also hiding in the rear away from fire and will call down a bombardment when optimal as well as helping my sweet reserves. In reserve is the rest of the force. The Vindicator tanks will out flank the enemy and demolish anything they find. Having the command tank grants monster and tank hunter which will be invaluable. The rhino's with troops are to get their Nuncio vox in the rear of the enemy to call down more accurate bombardments from the Medusa and I guess hold objectives even though my play style has neeeever been hold objectives because they will be mine anyway once the enemy has been totally annihilated. Iron father Autek Mor and his elite Gorgon terminators will outflank the foe in their inviolate Spartan and smash into the enemy's command or other sweet targets of opportunity thus they bring grav and chainfist for enemy armour. Mor gives his squad preferred enemy. I have a few alternative units that I could use and would really like to hear opinions. 3 Quad mortars. Probably drop the missile squad for them but then I would be tempted to also drop the MOS for a seigebreaker to get phosphex shells for them. Storm eagle assault gunship Replaces Spartan same roll though but have to drop a terminator and a grav gun to fit Mor though :( Probably use hellstrikes and extra armour Legion destroyer squad Loooove their points drop and want them bad. No idea what to drop for them but would want them out flanking in a land raider most likely Fortifications?? Ideas please iv never used any Any other units that would work well in my force/plans? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson73 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I feel like Orth is always a nice addition to an armour based list, he's cheap and adds a nice boost. Adding apothecaries to the support squad could help them survive longer, giving them flak missiles will also be a good source of anti-air, especially when coupled with the scanner. A cyber familiar would be a nice boost to the Medusan sergeant, as he'll get a 4++ in combat, allowing him to pose a serious challenge to anyone. I realise none of these points address the points excess, shaving lists down to size is always a bugger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5301981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Numen Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 Haha pearson73 I like all of your suggestions but ya still an issue. If I were to bring orth I'd probably drop the MOS but idk where I would put him, he would give a single Vindicator +1 bs and everyone would get tank hunter but I already have the command tank which grants TH anywho. An apothecarie would really help them not get wiped out asap, flackk missiles although good, only 2 people in the group have flyers so I'd just add as needed. And I forgot about the cyber familiar on the sarge......hmm would be neat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I’ve got a little experience with the HoG RoW, it’s a great RoW and really helps offset the iron hands ponderous mobility. The temptation for me, is to include lots of hard hitting units and neglect your scoring troops. I think you’re a bit light on scoring units TBH, especially at 3000 points. Those tacticals, placed in reserve are a great asset, but at 3,000 you might miss a fourth scoring unit. The issue with HoG is its predictability, which seems to be the main trait of the iron hands portrayed in the fluff at the moment, so maybe it’s fitting! You will probably only pull off the outflanking vindicator trick once against a canny opponent. I would consider, if you can find the points, giving them the machine spirit upgrade, this allows them to move 12” and fire, which increases their threat radius. It also allows them to fire their Demolisher Cannons if they are crew shaken/stunned result. The immortals are going to struggle on foot, as iron hands you have to pass Ld tests to run, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve failed to run my troops! Their volkites have a short effect range and the grav guns are heavy, so don’t complement the squads role, I would just drop the grav in favour of volkites. The gorgons need more chainfists. I would say at least three for the squad, ideally more. At the moment their role is too diverse, Autek gives them Preferred enemy infantry by joining them, the majority have power axes, but the special weapons favour anti tank. At least with more chainfists you can threaten a leviathan. Also, Autek grants a single unit preferred enemy infantry (as well as adding this to the unit he joins), so effectively two units can benefit from his warlord trait. It really helps immortals out ;) In terms of list changes, I would remove the heavy support squad and MoS, you have enough ranged support. To solve the above issues, I would add a second spartan for the immortals, and take a legion herald to accompany them. He makes them fearless and essentially a scoring unit, as well as buffing the immortals and surrounding (gorgons) by increasing their WS to 5. The difficulty is shaving off excess points, you can probably drop the command tank upgrades and extra armour, I would be tempted to drop the Damocles command tank. The only unit it is really helping is your vindicator squadron, as you want to keep the tacticals off the board, in most missions, as long as possible. The Spartans should probably be starting on the board (putting 700pt units in reserve makes me nervous!). Anyway, I hope that helps, just sharing a few of my experiences, for the iron Xth! Cadmus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Numen Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 Thank you Cadmus your insight has really made me think on this. Originally I was planning on the immortals to guard a home objective or just be a nice target for the enemy to come get as they are hard to dislodge and can take alot of punishment and thus the grav gun for anti armour as they probably won't move. However, they aren't going to really contribute much if they aren't fighting. They would do more good camping on an objective farther up the field or tiering up a hard unit. If I did just want them to sit and live long enough for the outflanking troops to do the real work I should drop the volkies and other expensive gear. They are just there to survive. Would you recommend outflanking the immortals in spartan or just running both Spartans up the field from the start? I also considered dropping the immortals in from a deepstriking storm eagle as it has the transport capacity. And is cheaper than a Spartan. Then they can claim an objective up field. I want some good hard hitting outflanking units as I play against Artillery heavy iron warriors and back field sitting imperial fists and others that leave very annoying units in the rear that take all game to get to and destroy. Best way thus far has been drop pod in my Leviathan with grav and drill and pop 1-2 things before it dies. And that a big points sink to last one turn. I wondered if 3 Vindicators would be enough of a backend cleaner crew to help or just what. Not that 3 Vindicators with machine spirit are cheap either but more hp and might live more than a single turn. Scratchy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 No problem. The issue with the immortals in the backfield is firstly, they can’t score in HoG (there are missions where a backfield scoring unit is helpful) and they don’t present any threat to your opponent at long range. So where’s the incentive for your opponent to come and get them? It’s 400pts not contributing to the start/middle of the game. Also, if you play iron warriors, they won’t be lasting long against artillery. Against units like Medusa’s, they are only slightly more survivable than a standard tactical squad. If you are looking at backfield scoring, you could place a herald in your missle launcher squad to make them scoring and fearless (avoiding pinning and morale check to shooting is helpful). I always feel that Storm Eagles are a little bit of a gamble, the contents won’t be contributing to the game until earliest turn 3. Plus, if your eagle gets shot down when it arrives, that’s 600pts essentially lost. I would start both Spartans on the board, purely from a target saturation/priority perspective. Two Spartans are harder to remove than one. Also, if you don’t have any infantry on the board, any anti-infantry units your opponent has are rendered ineffective. With regards to the vindicator and leviathan query, why not use both? If you can find the points. Cadmus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Numen Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 Updated list WIP All good points Cadmus, the immortals will serve better in battle. And the Spartan is probably a better transport, more armour. Now about the legion Herald, iv never given him much thought but seeing his updated rules are interesting. However there might be an issue with running him and Mor as Mor has jealous command and the herald has right of command and If I recall right the FAQ said you can't have 2 kinds of HQ that has the "must be your warlord rule" unless he's a primarch. But the rules are a bit different and my common sense says Mor would obviously overrule the Herald. If it works having the immortals scoring would make them very helpful. I removed the grav guns on the gorgons for fists and chainfist because their just not thaaaat exciting and chainfist are much more reliable for me thus far. Especially if the herald is around to grant +1 W's. Can the herald wear terminator armour in the update? With the points remaining I am torn. Either I can use a missile squad as before. And maybe fit orth in somewhere. Have a Leviathan seige dreadnought with drill and grav drop pod in.... However that's alot of points and I could choose several other options below that I have available, thudd guns and flare sheilds for Spartans or a predator squadron which could also outflank maybe for less to same points. 3000 pts Head of the Gorgon WIP HQ 225 pts Autek Mor TROOPS 175 pts 10 man Tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport 175 pts 10 man tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport ELITES 408 pts Medusan immortals x 20 Volkite chargers x 19 Sgt artificer armour and TH Cyber familiar Spartan dedicated transport 730 pts 10 man Gorgan Terminator squad 2 Chainfist 2 power fists Cyber familiar Spartan dedicated transport HEAVY SUPPORT 410 pts Vindicator seige squadron x 3 tanks Machine spirit x 3 310 pts Medusan seige guns x 2 Insert one option below: 395 pts Leviathan seige dreadnought x 1 Seige drill & meltagun Grav flux bombard Dreadnought Drop pod 180 pts Elite rapier quad mortors x 3 (could put flare shields on Spartans with leftover pts) Heavy support 425 pts Predator squadron x3 Las sponsons x 3 Executioner Plasma destroyer x 1 Machine spirit x 1 (might have to shave a couple points I think) HQ 155pts legion centurion Herald consol Artificer armour Refractor field Cyber familiar Power fist...(or a Volkite? I Love volkite) Aquilla banner (would go with the immortals) I'm doing this on my phone at work reading off bad pics I took of my red books for info so please point out any of my bad mistakes lol Scratchy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Good catch with the herald rule, it’s unfortunate as it would have been a nice way of increasing your scoring units. The leviathan in a pod is a nice distraction unit, if they focus on the leviathan, it’s less incoming fire for your Spartans and vice versa. I would put a phosphex discharger on it, just to guarantee you kill that backfield unit on the drop. Difficult decision with the scoring units, I’ve run a 3000 point HoG list with two tacticals and a ten man terminator squad, I found I needed more scoring units at this points level. One other, slightly off the wall option, would be to change the RoW for company of bitter iron. You would loose the tactical flexibility of outflanking tanks, but the immortals become a scoring unit. Perhaps not worth the trade off, but something to consider. Cadmus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Numen Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 I do like the bitter iron rite but i use it mainly for zone mortalis, if I can have tanks..... I do tanks haha good suggestion though for scoring immortals. And I will go with the dreadnought it's probably the biggest oh :cuss factor. 3000 pts Head of the Gorgon wip HQ 225 pts Autek Mor : Warlord TROOPS 175 pts 10 man Tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport 175 pts 10 man tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport ELITES 408 pts Medusan immortals x 20 Volkite chargers x 19 Sgt artificer armour and TH Cyber familiar Spartan dedicated transport 735 pts 10 man Gorgon Terminator squad 3 Chainfist 3 power fists 3 power axes Sargent Thunder hammer Cyber familiar Spartan dedicated transport HEAVY SUPPORT 410 pts Vindicator seige squadron x 3 tanks Machine spirit x 3 310 pts Medusan seige guns x 2 410 pts Leviathan seige dreadnought x 1 Seige drill & meltagun Grav flux bombard Phosphex discharger Dreadnought Drop pod Total 2988pts Another idea, changing the Gorgon terminators for my catiphractii ones and adding more fists and weapons is the same cost however the increase in inv save is great but not the loss of fnp. I think I'll keep the gorgons though as a 5++/5+++ is really nice over the straight up 4++. Now I have 152 pts left Either I slap on a pair of flare sheilds for the spartans and a couple of command tank upgrades for the Vindicators and Medusas or other such upgrades on "stuff". Or A consol of some kind for the immortals I am partial to the MOS for his bs boost Or Flare shields and a techmariene with conversion beamer to pop stuff from the back and be annoying Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Do your Spartans have armoured ceramite? In every 30k game I’ve played, it’s always been a useful upgrade. Even one multi melta slapped on a rhino is a threat without AC. With regards to flare shields, how competitive is you opponents list? If you are going fully competative I would add them. They render all Str8 weapons from the front arc useless (siege terminators, quad mortars, missile iron havocs etc) and lascannons can only glance you. But, if you have more of a narrative or friendly approach with your games, I would leave them off. Personally (in the context of my gaming group), I would drop one of the familiars (from the immortals) and add another bare tactical squad in a rhino. Put a charger on the immortal sergeant and upgrade one of the power fists on the gorgons to a chainfist. Cadmus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5302914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 This is more a general tip then anything specific to HoG/IH, but sometimes cutting squads down to 8-9 dudes instead of the full 10 (or 18 instead of full 20) can shave some points yet keep the overall same effect. In my experience, an opponent who wants a unit to die will find a way to kill it, regardless of whether it’s 5 dudes or 20. Secondly, although we all love the stories of Pvt Lucky being the last guy left in a squad, valiantly holding that OBJ, that realistically does not happen all the time. So in short, unless you’re trying to unlock more 1per5 special weapons, it can’t hurt to shave a few bodies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5303533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Numen Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 Cadmus This guy usually brings a few basic Tacts in rhino that don't move until turn 3-4 Medusas, scorpius, quad mortors, sometimes iron havocs with Las or autocannon and perterabo and the tormentor running iron fire. Ya he's rather competitive and I have yet to beat him or manage to kill pert or the tormentor and its getting annoying lol best I did was pod in the Leviathan, destroyed the scorpius and nearly killed pert's land raider before being nuked by the tormentor and my 3 pimped out (out flank) plasma predators took 6 hp off the super heavy before dieing. Then ferrus and gorgons charged pert from their destroyed spartan but first got smashed by Las and quad mortors..... It ended bad. He literally doesn't have to move a single guy to ruin my army. Frustrating....so ya flaresheids are great, anytime iv taken them they have been so so nice even against anyone else like spamming proteus word bearers or heavy support missiles and Las death guard so nice. Most of the other games are quite friendly but everyone in my group takes pretty good units there's not many people that take meh units just because their cool. As for the immortal sarg iv been dieing to feild my TH sarge because he looks soooo good even though I find the TH unnecessary and not fitting for the Volkite squad. So I agree in competitive terms I should drop it for a charger, personally I believe the only iron hands that should get into cc are ferrus and his retinue because inviolate armour is the biggest boon to our army. Indefragable I hear you on that one, I definitely overlook them thinking that I "have to" have max squads because it's points efficient when looking at the single squad itself but ya for a few less dude I can safeguard my spartans or other precious units better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5305353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Numen Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 3000 pts Head of the Gorgon wip HQ 225 pts Autek Mor : Warlord TROOPS 175 pts 10 man tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport 175 pts 10 man tactical squad Melta bombs Nuncio vox Rhino dedicated transport ELITES 406 pts Medusan immortals x 19 Volkite chargers x 19 Sgt artificer armour Spartan dedicated transport Flare sheild 780 pts 10 man Gorgon Terminator squad 3 Chainfist 3 power fists 3 power axes Sargent Thunder hammer Cyber familiar Spartan dedicated transport Flare sheild HEAVY SUPPORT 410 pts Vindicator seige squadron x 3 tanks Machine spirit x 3 310 pts Medusan seige guns x 2 410 pts Leviathan seige dreadnought x 1 Seige drill & meltagun Grav flux bombard Phosphex discharger Dreadnought Drop pod With the flare sheilds on I have 109 pts left. Dropped 1 immortal and the TH and cyber. I could add orth to the Vindicators, I'm too short to add another tactical squad without dropping another 2-3 immortals and maybe some other weapons. I would really like to have a third Medusa with command tank upgrade but I feel like it's already such a bullet or volcano cannon magnet already. That and I have nowhere near the points. The new plan is to charge both Spartans charge up and using the Medusas to start taking out enemy heavy support squads or shaving off hp from armour. The Leviathan will pod near the tormentor and gravaton it and hope to live to charge with his drill unless I want to pod him against his Medusas. In that case Mor and the chainfist terminators will take the tormentor down.....hopefully. Tacts stay in reserve until there's less dakka to smear them. Then outflank for objectives. Vindicators outflank and hit the quad mortors and other targets of opportunity. Immortals will hit either his Tacts or his command squad probably sit back and choom. And he's bringing a Warsmith for his HQ with tyrant seige terminators in tow. Yay! Edit: seige breaker warsmith Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355519-3000-hog-help/#findComment-5305383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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