Malevolence genric Legion units discussion

[rendingon1+]

Since Malevolence is with us for some time and I bet everyone is familiar with new consuls and units - let's talk about them! :)

Me first:

 

Main theme of Malevolence new stuff is combating the psykers/demons. I can kind of understand it, since we got entirely new list for Ruinstorm Demons (no personal experience yet), but on the other hand... What's the point of releasing an army with X strenght while at the same time giving other factions tools to deny or severly limit said army strenght. Especially since demons do not strike me as extremely powerfull. Not to mention that Thousand Souls will feel the backlash very harshly.

Anyway, let's start from the beginning.

Consuls:

 

Warmonger

 

I feel he's a total steal for what he does, don't think he was playtested in any way.He get's very good praetor grade wargear which is not available to normal consuls AND for a meltabomb cost he's able to teleport with ANY unit he can join. No limitations on wargear, number of warmongers that can be taken or a unit he can join.

Conclusion:

Very good upgrade, bordering on auto take.

P.S Can you deep strike him with rapiers?

 

Armistos

 

Is it that heavy bolter and culverins upgrade don't sell well?

 

Anyway... I like him. Very cheap upgrade, he comes with quite non orthodox equipment (hbolter/culverin, augury scanner) and with some special rules (stubborn) that are very useful. He blesses your HSS with rerolls if equiped with hbolters or culverins which depending on a mission, legion or playstyle might, or might not be considered great . Even if you don't take HSS, I think Armistos is a quite a nice addition to objective campers-shooting squad (I mostly think of seekers or veterans).

Has a support officer and can't take any mobility or heavy armour options.

Conclusion:

Before Malevolence release I was highly skeptical about this one but now I think Armistos is ok. Most important, he's very cheap and even if you don'n need his big gun, augury scanner of stubborn will find it's use for sure.

 

Primus Nullifactor

 

Expensive upgrade that might see some use vs demons. Source for a cheap sanctic psyker and adamantium will.

 

Coclusion:

Don't know what to think of him, can;t really see him in any list I would make. Even vs demons. His rerolling invs vs psyker/demon is nice but he's in cataphractii so mobility issues.

 

Esoterist

Librarian upgrade that costs half of what standard lib costs which in itself is unfair (additional ML taken into account) + he specializes in demonology (both flavours). I think this guy will be responsible for drop in games quality in the near future if wielded by WAACs. Summoning armies in 7th was not something I enjoyed fighting against and/or sanctic version with hammerhand and sanctuary will result with some totally unfluffy, broken deathstart attempts.

 

Conclusion:

A mistake.

 

Mortifactor

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well I'll chime in on waac strategies if you're worried about the esoterist; prime null gets to choose his power raw from sanctic for 5 points. He already gets terminator gear and an foc unlock for his cost and then you pay nothing to enable some wonky combos.

 

I don't think summoning is going to be as bad as in 7th, since you can't summon anything that knows daemonology. You'll get some free stuff, but you can't make a battery of free stuff.

 

Warmonger is very strong, obviously.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Ruinstorm:  It's funny how a percentage of people point their fingers the Daemons way and call them broken, whilst others think they're totally useless. Speaks a lot of itself and how far the HH community has come ... or not. They are a nice addition to the setting and gaming environment overall, but spamming monstrous creatures can be ... detrimental. I'm certain you all know what I mean. Also, the list might have some scaling issues in games of 3k points and up. We'll see.

 

Psyarkana VS. Thousand Sons:  I doubt the 'backlash' will be felt harshly, really. Thousand Sons are still very powerful and highly customisable, Psyarkana won't change that. Some of the items feel like they've even been written specifically for Thousand Sons, not against them. A bunch of other options are easily accessible by all the Legions and have the option to spice up your list without feeling broken or out of place. Others feel just ... meh ... like the Divining Blade - I abhor options that prostrate themselves as auto includes. Toxiferran flamers and especially cannons feel like they're a notch too powerful, but we'll see, I might be wrong. Destroyers feel like they've been boosted again, after their improvement in the playtest rules, which feels good and gives you more reason to take them.

 

Warmonger:  Has the potential to be quite powerful in certain combinations, no doubt, but feels mostly inferior compared to a Dreadclaw. 

 

Primus Nullificator:  If you play him  (RAI, hello again sloppy rules writing !)  so he has to roll for his powers, he's mostly balanced I feel. Also, I like options that allow for FOC shenanigans without the use of a RoW.

 

Armistos:  I feel like, in his obvious role, he's only viable for very specific army builds / certain legions (hello master-crafted acid shell heavy bolters ... ) and mostly inferior to an attached MoS (or any character with a Cognis Signum). But looking at him from a different perspective, you're getting a nice cheap character that provides stubborn, which can be useful in handful of circumstances, not only for HS squads. Oh, and if I were a Death Guard player, I'd totally run a scoring, stubborn, volkite wielding HS squad in The Reaping with this guy ... 

 

Esoterist:  Fells like the most 'un-fluffy' addition to the available options overall. Putting that little grief behind, he can certainly add some options to specialised lists, and his cost's a steal, no doubt. Just keep in mind that you'll  'Peril'  on any roll of a doubles. He might add the most to Word Bearers (if taken as a third HQ choice). Thousand Sons can't even take him, which is hilarious from a certain point of view.

 

Mortificator:  Gods ... his 'Keeper of the Dead' special rule is like ... half a page long. Surely this could have been written better / in a more cleaned up way. In other news, 'Ancient Devotion'  feels like it's completely broken, but we'll find out in time. That and the fact that he's not a Support Officer easily make him the most abusable option amongst the new consuls in my personal humble opinion.

 

 

There, I did it - Unknown Legionnaires complete guide to generic Legion additions in Malevolence ... (TiC)

Please not that my opinion on these new consul types is highly subjective, I'm not approaching things from a WAAC perspective ever, and strife for a balanced and enjoyable gaming experience for all participants of a game. 

[Marshal Rohr]

The Mortificator seems like a good way to get a free elites slot if you typically run dreadnaughts, though they have to squad up. I had struggled for a long time to fit Apothecaries and weapons batteries in my elites choices for a Stone Gauntlet list and now that he exists I can run a Praetor and Mortificator with my dreads, and take my Apothecary, rapiers, and terminators.

 

Now if they could just get around to lowering the Breacher's points

[Slips]

More than just a free elites slot since most dread talons are limited 1-3 dreads; he can take up to 5. So for 1 HQ slot, you can basically get 2 Dread Talons / elite slots worth of dreads.

[Purge the Daemon]

More than just a free elites slot since most dread talons are limited 1-3 dreads; he can take up to 5. So for 1 HQ slot, you can basically get 2 Dread Talons / elite slots worth of dreads.

They are a bit more restricted than regular dreads so that is an important factor but with iron hands they are disgusting.

[Slips]

 

More than just a free elites slot since most dread talons are limited 1-3 dreads; he can take up to 5. So for 1 HQ slot, you can basically get 2 Dread Talons / elite slots worth of dreads.

They are a bit more restricted than regular dreads so that is an important factor but with iron hands they are disgusting.

 

While true, you can still take Regular Contemptors with him meaning you cant have Av13 5++/5+++ baseline. Iron Hands w/ Ferrus and HOTG only make them Absurd with a 5++/5+++ IWND and BAutosim.

 

True, they have to move together as a unit, they still have split fire which means you can just shoot at whatever but it does make for a tempting template target. That said you can still probably get away with using 1-2 "ablative" contemptor-cortus' at the front of the unit to take the damage for the rest first.

 

I definitely wouldnt bother with Boxnaughts for such a unit if you were wanting to run an optimized unit because they'd only have the benefits of cost on their side. With at most Av12, it wouldnt be that hard to nuke them off the table.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

 

More than just a free elites slot since most dread talons are limited 1-3 dreads; he can take up to 5. So for 1 HQ slot, you can basically get 2 Dread Talons / elite slots worth of dreads.

They are a bit more restricted than regular dreads so that is an important factor but with iron hands they are disgusting.

While true, you can still take Regular Contemptors with him meaning you cant have Av13 5++/5+++ baseline. Iron Hands w/ Ferrus and HOTG only make them Absurd with a 5++/5+++ IWND and BAutosim.

 

True, they have to move together as a unit, they still have split fire which means you can just shoot at whatever but it does make for a tempting template target. That said you can still probably get away with using 1-2 "ablative" contemptor-cortus' at the front of the unit to take the damage for the rest first.

 

I definitely wouldnt bother with Boxnaughts for such a unit if you were wanting to run an optimized unit because they'd only have the benefits of cost on their side. With at most Av12, it wouldnt be that hard to nuke them off the table.

100% contemptors or cortus my only issue with the unit is that it makes combat hard very few combats need 5 dreadnoughts in them admittedly it's better than domitar so maybe it's actually alright. The 5++/5++ iwnd and blessed is actually ridiculous like you just show up with this :cuss and your opponent needs an ordinatus saggitar to deal with it.

[Slips]

For the IH Dreadstart, yeah, youll probably need S:D, luck on your side or a hilarious amount of Haywire.

 

That said, if you have no way to repair the dreads themselves, then a single immobilized result could shut them down pretty hard for at least 1 turn.

[Purge the Daemon]

I wrote up a 3k iron hands list with a dread star bit of a meme melee star but some decent fire power but probably could run kheres unit for sure instead.

 

Head of the gorgon

 

Mortifactor 135

- cyber familiar

- artificer armour

- refractor field

- power fist

 

5 Contemptor Dreads 1225 (plasma blasters are expensive as hell)

- 10 plasma blaster

- 5 chainfist

- 5 ccw

- 5 extra armour

- 5 havoc launchers

 

2 x 10 tactical marines 140 (280)

- artificer armour

- melta bomb

 

2 x rhino 55 (110)

- dozer blade

- multi melta

 

Deredeo Dreadnought 220

- aiolos missiles

 

Sicaran Venator 195

- dozer blade

 

Ferrus Manus 455

- forgebreaker

 

Cataphracti command squad 165

- 3 chainfist

- 1 plasma blaster

 

Land raider phobos 250

- armoured ceramite

- dozer blade

 

Comes out to 3k dread star is half the list and you still need to buy ferrus.

 

Rip after istavan though and the list is kind of small obviously the terminator star doesnt hell could do

[Charlo]

Mortifactor's rules are so weird.

 

You don't lose a HULL POINT, but you can still be exploded etc......

[rendingon1+]

+ the murky area of wound/hullpoint allocation. He's a non vehicle in a vehicle squdron, so how does it work in for example, challanges (overkill)?

 

I see my post was cut once again, I don't know what's going on...

Anyway there were only nullifactors left (which for me are just useless, with very lame fluff) and this guy. My conclusion is that FW run out of ideas, these consuls do not seem very fluffy or bcgrg interesting.

 

Psyarkana VS. Thousand Sons:  I doubt the 'backlash' will be felt harshly, really. Thousand Sons are still very powerful and highly customisable, Psyarkana won't change that. Some of the items feel like they've even been written specifically for Thousand Sons, not against them. A bunch of other options are easily accessible by all the Legions and have the option to spice up your list without feeling broken or out of place. Others feel just ... meh ... like the Divining Blade - I abhor options that prostrate themselves as auto includes. Toxiferran flamers and especially cannons feel like they're a notch too powerful, but we'll see, I might be wrong. Destroyers feel like they've been boosted again, after their improvement in the playtest rules, which feels good and gives you more reason to take them.

 

Sure, there are some nice things for TS but things like Icon of the Blazing sun or Pentcles can ruin their day very well. You can shut down Magnus' spellcasting with preator just by doing Ld tests if you're within 12" and make any unit with psyker rule variation I1 in cc as a passive ability.

 

Psyarkanas are definitely better thought than their Relics predecessors, unfortunately some of them are just broken with no risks involved or extremely unlikely chance to backfire.