GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 So I read somewhere that the footprint of a Chaos Bastion is 6 inches by 6 inches. Is it physically possible to get one or more of them "wholly within" 6 inches of a Noctilith Crown so that they benefit from the invuln (since they are CHAOS units)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 So I read somewhere that the footprint of a Chaos Bastion is 6 inches by 6 inches. Is it physically possible to get one or more of them "wholly within" 6 inches of a Noctilith Crown so that they benefit from the invuln (since they are CHAOS units)? What book are the rules for it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 The Imperial version is in Chapter Approved 2017 - not sure where the chaos version is. As for the footprint of the Bastion, the base is just under 6" square. However, if you measure from the end of one heavy bolter to another, its more like 6 3/4". So, if you read the rules as needing the heavy bolters also to be wholly within 6", you can't fit any bastions wholly within 6" of the crown. However, if you read the rules as not requiring the ends of the guns to be within 6", if you place the model in contact with the crown, you can fit 2 bastions wholly within 6" (one on the front side of the crown, one on the backside of the crown). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnok Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 However, if you read the rules as not requiring the ends of the guns to be within 6", if you place the model in contact with the crown, you can fit 2 bastions wholly within 6" (one on the front side of the crown, one on the backside of the crown). Basic geometry disagrees. The NC aura has a radius of 6'', and since you can not overlap Bastion and NC, you can never fit a 6'' square Bastion wholly inside the aura circle. This will only change once the aura goes up to 9'' in turn three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 However, if you read the rules as not requiring the ends of the guns to be within 6", if you place the model in contact with the crown, you can fit 2 bastions wholly within 6" (one on the front side of the crown, one on the backside of the crown). Basic geometry disagrees. The NC aura has a radius of 6'', and since you can not overlap Bastion and NC, you can never fit a 6'' square Bastion wholly inside the aura circle. This will only change once the aura goes up to 9'' in turn three. Where are you measuring the radius on the NC from? Anything stopping you from facing it vertically instead of horizontal to measure its footprint/ aura? Aura could reach out way more from vertical deployment I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnok Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Where are you measuring the radius on the NC from? Anything stopping you from facing it vertically instead of horizontal to measure its footprint/ aura? Aura could reach out way more from vertical deployment I would imagine. This has nothing to do with where you are measuring what, it is really just geometry: Assume the NC at the centre of the circle, whose radius is the same length as the edge of a Bastion. There is no way you can fit the Bastion inside of the circle due to the fact that the Bastion must not overlap with the NC. HOWEVER... This was assuming the NC being either a point, or its base shaped like a circle (the argument above would apply just the same) - which it is not. Its base is shaped (roughly) rectangular, and its front edge is more than 6'', so the aura is shaped like this: So I was right with my original idea, but only looking at the actual model (sitting in a cabinet right next to me ) made me realise my mistake. You can indeed fit two Bastions next to a NC (one in front, one in back). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 However, if you read the rules as not requiring the ends of the guns to be within 6", if you place the model in contact with the crown, you can fit 2 bastions wholly within 6" (one on the front side of the crown, one on the backside of the crown). Basic geometry disagrees. Well, I'm glad you got basic geometry to agree with me. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Wouldn't it be more fun to build a double bastion and then mount the crown on top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Might be an interesting project, though you would likely have to make your own rules for it. You would need to cut down the feet of the crown some - if you put 2 bastions together you lose about 3/4 " from each as you have to leave off the sloping sides where they join together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 Thanks folks. This seems like it might be kinda cool to do, given that a Crown is 90pts cheaper than a Void Shield Generator and also helps with psychic tests. Plus, the protection doesn't go away if someone drops in pointblank. Not world-changing, but worth some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 The model doesn't have to be wholly within, only the unit does. So as long as part of a single model unit is within 6" then that's wholly within. At least that's how terrain works with vehicles which count as 'entirely on' a terrain feature even if they're just touching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 The model doesn't have to be wholly within, only the unit does. So as long as part of a single model unit is within 6" then that's wholly within. At least that's how terrain works with vehicles which count as 'entirely on' a terrain feature even if they're just touching it. That's not true though. We had this discussion already here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354884-land-raider-with-treads-in-cover/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 The language in the FAQ has just changed to make clear what "within" and "wholly within" mean - it works the way the thread sfPanzer provided says it should. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en-3.pdf - page 7, topmost pink section on left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 Looks like the Big FAQ also specifies that "wholly within" is based on the entire base or *hull* of the model (emphasis mine), so we're good to have the Heavy Bolter barrels peeking out. This could be interesting as a strongpoint for sorcerers or protection for fast infantry, with a disembark move to give them a good launching. Given the clarifications on Incursion and first turn summoning, it could be an interesting launcher for an MoP summoning some Daemons too. Maybe only go with one Bastion on the "front" side to keep costs down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I don't have my book with me, so I could be wrong about this, but wouldn't it take 3 detachments to field 3 fortifications? That's all you get in ITC, meaning this probably won't work there. Please let me know if I'm misremembering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Fortification detachments are 1-3 fortifications each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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