Undoing Superglue (and more)

[ImperialTuba]

Before I set the stage for the predicament I've found myself in, I'll list some specifics that might play a role in how I tackle this situation:

 

1) First off, the models involved are resin.

2) I'm using Loctite Gel Control Super Glue, as I have for all models up to this point.

3) The models are Primaris Intercessors, none of which have been assembled beyond their legs, torso, and packs.

 

Plot Summary: If you've read some of my previous posts on the forum, you might have an idea of how I got into this mess. If not, I'll try to summarize it as quick as I can. I ordered ten Intercessors that turned out to be recasts. They arrived out of their sprues with no way of identifying which parts corresponded to the ones listed in the instructions that I had to ask for on here a while back (and a fair bit of extra resin in annoying places, too). I've been doing my best to assemble them correctly, but...

 

The Predicament: It seems that I've made a mistake or two (or three) in putting these guys together. Namely, the two chest plates that I'm left with almost certainly don't match up with the legs and backs that I have left. After looking back at the legs and torsos that were already put together, I noticed a slight gap where the chest plate meets the hips in at least two of the marines. So I have at least four guys with mismatched parts, hopefully no more than that. 

 

Now the question of how do I proceed? I know that acetone can be used to undo superglue, but have no idea how it might react with resin. Another concern of mine would be if it could even reach into the spaces where the models have been fused. Is there anything I could use to disassemble the models and get the right pieces where they belong?

 

The other option I was considering was using modeling clay to fill the gap in the midsection for the guys that have already been built, and shaving away enough plastic on the two models left to essentially force the pieces to fit.

 

As always, your help and suggestion are appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Your neighborhood idiot.  

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Resin is the most fragile of the three common materials used by Citadel. While if it were plastic, I'd recommend you grab an ultrasonic cleaner and some Super Clean (note, I haven't tried that myself, but I've heard it works) I'm unsure how resin will react, *especially* recast resin. Be very careful with anything you do. Frankly, you're probably best off putting them away and picking up real plastic.

[ImperialTuba]

Resin is the most fragile of the three common materials used by Citadel. While if it were plastic, I'd recommend you grab an ultrasonic cleaner and some Super Clean (note, I haven't tried that myself, but I've heard it works) I'm unsure how resin will react, *especially* recast resin. Be very careful with anything you do. Frankly, you're probably best off putting them away and picking up real plastic.

Seems a little early to abandon the whole project, no? I had hoped I was making this out to be a bigger problem than it actually was. 

[Ciler]

SUper glue (unlike plastic glue) can be broken. One usual recommendation is to put it in the freezer for a few as the cold makes it even more brittle and see if it'll snap easily.

[ImperialTuba]

SUper glue (unlike plastic glue) can be broken. One usual recommendation is to put it in the freezer for a few as the cold makes it even more brittle and see if it'll snap easily.

Might be something I'll consider if no other option remains, but would the resin be at risk of cracking, too?

[Arkhanist]

It is a risk, mainly for fragile/thin joints. Torso to legs doesn't really have thin bits, so should be practical. The way the freezer method works is that the resin and superglue shrink (as most things do) when getting cold - but at different rates, causing fractures in the glue; while tiny amounts of water captured in the super glue expand when freezing, adding to the effect.

Gel super glue will be most resistant to this method, as it's usually rubber-infused to make the dry glue less brittle, which also makes it more resistant to freezing.

 

The thing not to do is try and break the joint while the resin is still frozen, as that's the main risk while so cold. So freeze, then thaw gently back up to room temperature before attempting to pull them apart. You can also do the freeze/thaw cycle two or three times, which should enhance the effect. 

 

Option 2 is to use a solvent that doesn't affect the resin, but does attack the superglue. Three possibilities that people have had success with removing superglue from forgeworld resin; acetone, high strength isopropyl alcohol and simple green. Each can be used to strip paint from FW resin safely, and also weaken super glue. Acetone will melt normal GW plastic though, FYI. Before using any of them, I'd soak some scrap offcuts if you have any left from the pieces for a while, ideally super glued together - so if it does melt the scrap, you know not to use it on your particular resin! There are a lot of different types of resin, so there's no way to know for sure beforehand what is safe in your specific case.

 

The third option is to crack out the modelling knife and jewelers saw (also known as a piercing saw) and just cut them apart again. The downside of course is you will likely need to greenstuff them a touch after reassembly.

 

And the fourth option is of course to sand as needed and greenstuff the holes.to just make your mismatched parts fit. This is probably the option I'd go for as the simplest, but I also have a couple of decades of greenstuff/milliput repairs, so YMMV!

[ImperialTuba]

It is a risk, mainly for fragile/thin joints. Torso to legs doesn't really have thin bits, so should be practical. The way the freezer method works is that the resin and superglue shrink (as most things do) when getting cold - but at different rates, causing fractures in the glue; while tiny amounts of water captured in the super glue expand when freezing, adding to the effect.

Gel super glue will be most resistant to this method, as it's usually rubber-infused to make the dry glue less brittle, which also makes it more resistant to freezing.

 

The thing not to do is try and break the joint while the resin is still frozen, as that's the main risk while so cold. So freeze, then thaw gently back up to room temperature before attempting to pull them apart. You can also do the freeze/thaw cycle two or three times, which should enhance the effect. 

 

Option 2 is to use a solvent that doesn't affect the resin, but does attack the superglue. Three possibilities that people have had success with removing superglue from forgeworld resin; acetone, high strength isopropyl alcohol and simple green. Each can be used to strip paint from FW resin safely, and also weaken super glue. Acetone will melt normal GW plastic though, FYI. Before using any of them, I'd soak some scrap offcuts if you have any left from the pieces for a while, ideally super glued together - so if it does melt the scrap, you know not to use it on your particular resin! There are a lot of different types of resin, so there's no way to know for sure beforehand what is safe in your specific case.

 

The third option is to crack out the modelling knife and jewelers saw (also known as a piercing saw) and just cut them apart again. The downside of course is you will likely need to greenstuff them a touch after reassembly.

 

And the fourth option is of course to sand as needed and greenstuff the holes.to just make your mismatched parts fit. This is probably the option I'd go for as the simplest, but I also have a couple of decades of greenstuff/milliput repairs, so YMMV!

I should have known my choice in glue would come back and bite me in the ass! Haha. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try the freezer method as long as I keep a close eye on it and if the pieces don't seem like they're ready to budge move to option four. Unfortunately, I don't think I have any spare resin to test option two, and I only just bought a hobby knife, so my level of competence there is something I'd rather not put to the test. 

[Grotsmasha]

I would try the freezer method, overnight should be long enough. Use something small and metal, and use small amounts of pressure to try and lever the pieces apart. If the won't budge, I'd go back to gap filling your assembled ones, and then I'd grab a file for the last ones and shave in small increments until they're close enough that you can gap fill them.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Quixus]

I should have known my choice in glue would come back and bite me in the ass!

What other options did you have? AFAIK plastic glue does not work on resin.

[Ciler]

There are other varieties of cyanoacrylate glues that are not "super" glue. They are less known because they are mostly used in the building trade rather than model making.

[Arkhanist]

Two part epoxy glues also work well on resin and give a longer working time and higher shear resistance (i.e. twisting) than superglue. Kinda fallen out of favour these days. I think ImperialTuba's response was because they've used gel super glue which is harder to crack with the freeze/thaw method than 'ordinary' super glue - but still easier than removing 2-part epoxy!

[ImperialTuba]

 

I should have known my choice in glue would come back and bite me in the ass!

What other options did you have? AFAIK plastic glue does not work on resin.

 

Mostly meant that as a joke, but as Arkhanist said I was referring to the fact that I happened to be using a type of glue that might be more resilient against the "Freezer Method". We'll just have to wait and see.  

Thank you all for your help and suggestions! I'll likely post about the results in the near future once I get a chance to test it out. 

[Bat33.1]

Acetone can work but the fumes are dangerous when it reacts with superglue. The best way is to place the items in a plastic container with a lid and place something in the bottom of the container that you can put the parts you wish to separate on out of direct contact with the acetone. Pour in a small amount of pure acetone, put the lid on and leave the container somewhere that little hands cannot get hold of it for 24-48 hours and let the vapour go to work softening the superglue. I'd advise some disposable gloves when separating the parts as glue residue can be messy and you can use some warm water to wash off any remainder before rebuilding.

 

Note for anybody using acetone the vapour is highly flammable so never use it anywhere near a naked flame or source of ignition and always use it in a well ventilated space.

[Boshea]

Simple Green works surprising well on breaking Resin apart that was assemble with Super Glue. Soak the models over night and you should be able to snap stuff pretty easy.

[ImperialTuba]

Acetone can work but the fumes are dangerous when it reacts with superglue. 

My main concern with using acetone, or any chemicals for that matter, is that I don't know what type of resin I'm dealing with since the models are recasts. 

[Imren]

If you doo the freezer method, then afer freexzing/thawning before pulling on the parts, try to cut along the superglue seam with the scalpel/hobby knife to help out the applied force to act on the superglue interface and break there instead of breaking in the resin

[Semper Fortis]

If you doo the freezer method, then afer freexzing/thawning before pulling on the parts, try to cut along the superglue seam with the scalpel/hobby knife to help out the applied force to act on the superglue interface and break there instead of breaking in the resin

Ah, the hobby equivalent of "tear here" perforations. :) Great idea!

 

But please, if you do this, don't be tempted to try a little twist with the knife just to see if it might help. Xacto type hobby blades and scalpel blades snap under pressure in the best of circumstances. They snap incredibly easily under torque. You really don't want a flying piece of metal in your eye. Painting with two eyes is just so much easier.

[ImperialTuba]

 

But please, if you do this, don't be tempted to try a little twist with the knife just to see if it might help. Xacto type hobby blades and scalpel blades snap under pressure in the best of circumstances. They snap incredibly easily under torque. You really don't want a flying piece of metal in your eye. Painting with two eyes is just so much easier.

 

 

Thanks for the tip! I'll be much more conscious of this when I freeze the next marine. (Yes, I still have both my eyes and my Xacto blade is still in one piece.)  

[Brother-serpent Tylydox]

I would just use the Green Stuff to fill the gaps and file on those models where there is extra plastic.  This way you will have unique models.