Heldrakes after new FAQ...

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

So now units with FLY can charge over screens and FLY units with a minimum move can't take up space the way other models can.....

 

The Heldrake, of course, does have FLY and doesn't have a minimum move. Therefore it can still block up space and now it can move 30", then charge over screens to get at the "good stuff."

 

Does this extra table control and better charge mobility make it actually worthwhile now? At its current point cost I think it might. It also might be worth seeing if Hades Drakes can actually do something now with a Lord Discordant nearby.

 

Thoughts?

[Mekhitar]

I really think HDs should be fast attack...

 

Early in 8th I was very unimpressed with them because the ap-1 claws just mean they mostly bounce off enemy flying targets. I swore off of them for a good long while.

 

Now that I know how to use them, they are absolutely fantastic, especially as character assassins, and board control elements if you play ITC. 1 is great, 2 is better than 1, and they partner with your daemon engines without taking up space.

 

Don’t expect them to punch well against things in their own weight class. They’re just as they are in fluff - harrassment units that excel at bullying the little guys your opponent leaves on objectives or forcing them to do all sorts of screening. They will eat a non-CC character for breakfast, tag an entire tank line, etc. I love them. I’ve had them snipe anything from a farseer to sammael to a daemon prince (if you roll a lucky baleflamer d6).

 

I take 1 World Easter drake so I have range to shut off any power I please.

 

Also, okay, I admit I just love the model.

[Sception]

Offensive output is still very limited for their points cost.  I'd personally like to see them a bit cheaper - or better yet a fair bit more threatening*.  Either way, even with the re-revised fly rules they still have some trouble charging over screens due to their large base - after all, fly or no, there needs to be enough open space to physically place the model on the other side.  While you might catch lone characters out a couple times, it shouldn't take long for your opponent to learn out to screen it away.  And even then, that only matters for characters who don't have the armor saves needed to mostly shrug off the drake's limited offense anyway.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still sort of like it as a light harassment option, but I think that's more trying to find excuses to run a model I like rather than something that's efficiently filling a mechanical role my army needed to function.

 

 

*my thoughts: Reduce base attack values by one, replace talons with jaws at +1 strength -2 ap d3 damage; add the talons back as is except with 'when you attack with this model in the fight phase you may make two additional attacks with this weapon' in place of the bonus to hit vs. fliers, then make the bonus to hit vs. fliers a special rule applying to all attacks made by the heldrake, making the hades a marginally less terrible option.

 

Sadly, with the 2.0 codex freshly minted it's going to be years before we have any chance of seeing the mecha-dragon's offensive abilities buffed in any way, so in the mean time we can only hope to see the points cost reduced a bit to match its significantly sub-draconic, light harassment type profile.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I know a lot of people are looking at Slingshotting a Disco Lord up the board fast turn 1 with warptime. That means he could potentially keep up with Heldrakes, no?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I know a lot of people are looking at Slingshotting a Disco Lord up the board fast turn 1 with warptime. That means he could potentially keep up with Heldrakes, no?

 

He can keep up with them even without Warp Time in many cases. They have no minimum move and not every destination is going to be 30 in away. In fact, he'd probably only need the slingshot on Turn 1.

 

Then they can surround him like vicious pets and make him impossible to charge.

 

I'm actually building a Night Lord army with an LD and 3 Drakes right now....for fun of course, but we'll see how it does.

[Sanctimonius]

Dumb question - do the hellchickens and dinobots also benefit from the legion trait?

 

Also are you running the LD with Night Haunter's Curse? Does that help him much in the way of survivability, or would you run something more like Unholy Fortitude or just go Nurgle?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Dumb question - do the hellchickens and dinobots also benefit from the legion trait?

 

Also are you running the LD with Night Haunter's Curse? Does that help him much in the way of survivability, or would you run something more like Unholy Fortitude or just go Nurgle?

No, hellchickens don't benefit (though the Disco Lord does because he's a CHARACTER per the new FAQ). Yes, I'm running him with Night Haunter's Curse, especially since he can use it to reroll a charge if he needs to. The rest of the army is a Raptorial with Raptors and Warp Talons, plus some CSM to sit in the backfield with single heavy weapons and provide both fire support and Battalion CP. The Raptorial includes a Sorcerer with the relic wings, a flying Black Hunt Khorne Lord, and a flying Khorne Hammerlord with the Talisman of Burning Blood, so there will be lots of threats. The backfield portion also includes 2 Dark Apostles, so the Disco Lord might have a -1 to be hit early on.

[Sanctimonius]

@GreaterChicken - how many points is that at?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

@GreaterChicken - how many points is that at?

2k.

[Prot]

Right now I’m off the chicken bandwagon.

 

I was using it in the Daemon Engines Detachment. I’m not going to go off on some negative rant but my last game with it against Tau this is how it went down.....

 

I get Turn 1 and move it 32”. I flame drones right beside one of his Riptides. I kill 2 only. (I shot stuff at drones and got the Riptide down to 2 wounds from other units)

 

I decide since the Riptide is down to 2 wounds and has fly I would assault it with the firechicken. I don’t do any damage after all is said and done.... (but I take 4 wounds in combine overwatch)

 

Tau turn... he moves away with his Riptide and unloads a unit of fishwarrriors by the Drake. I take all my wounds from shooting and all said and done the Drake blows up. I roll first on the drones and kill them. I roll a 1 on the Riptide so I cp reroll it and destroy it to my opponent’s utter shock. Then I take out some fish troops and part of their transport.

 

Man was that funny... he had to laugh too. And that is the greates Damage I’ve had from it. I’ve just found it typically does nothing.

[Panzer]

Not really much changed for the Heldrake imo.

It rarely had to charge over enemy units because the base is too big to fit behind most screens anyway and the flyer problem didn't affect him at all before he's not immune to charges from non-FLY units like the units are they introduced the changes for.