Midnight Brotherhood Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. Apart from Blanche you've got Wayne England, Alex boyd and Paul Smith who did some really iconic and atmospheric art which shaped 40k into the gothic grimdark feel that all of those of us had who grew up with 40k. Some of the new artwork is okay but a lot of it is just too clean, or too perfectly posed, they've lost their touch in capturing the actions shots or those almost face to face encounters you'd see 2 opposing forces having which looked brutal and unforgiving. If anything I noticed the Chaos Space Marine codex actually recycling art from the 3rd edition era because it's just that good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5305791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I prefer some of the old art and some of the current art. It's all a wash for me but I'm also not wearing any kind of nostalgia glasses for 40k. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5305800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialIssue Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Of all the artist I only know John Blanche, and I think his work is awful. Like an obscura or spook induced hallucination of 40k. Using his work to get a glimpse of the 40k universe, is like using a painting by Salvador Dali to get an idea of our own world. I think that's precisely the point. It looks exactly how an Astropath might scribble down the fevered dreams he sees across time and space with an auto-stylus. I'd hesitate to take any of the image literally, either in-universe or when looking at it even from Blanche's viewpoint. Rather, its presentation in a dreamlike/messy/almost metaphorical sense is supposed to evoke feelings, and frame the essence of the culture and themes of the world he's depicting; the vast tyrannies of 10,000 years and the silence of space stretch out and separate an ancient empire lost among the stars. Nothing is absolute, so much has been lost; these are legends you are looking at, nothing more. I think they say more about 40k than any of the modern art has done - this isn't just sci-fi, but gothic sci fi, with its own unmistakable styles and dark twists on an otherwise all-too same genre. But I like Kopinski, Smith and Dainton more - combining the whimsy and myth of Blanche with an at-times almost idealized historical style which evokes a late renaissance/early modern painting (4th edition Space Marine Codex cover) which could be in-universe artwork hanging in a Ministorium or Chapter hall or in a guidebook. At other times using amazing artistic licence and imagination to provoke and almost shock; showing a vision of the dark glory of the 41st millennium before stricter ip constraints (the 4th edition Ecclesiarchy/space marine centerfolds, the 3.5 edition Chaos codex). 3rd - 5th edition was most of their work, and it is my favorite era - their work can be taken as literally or as metaphorically as you wish, be seen in-universe or from our own eyes equally as effectively. Also, I feel black and white / grayscale was far more appropriate for 40k. It simultaneously lent it's publications an almost historical 'weight', contributed to its gothic overtones, and helped tone down/hide the high-fantasy-style excess in cleanliness and saturation which can make it hard to take seriously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5305817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 There was never a uniform style for art. Some of the new stuff isn't great, some of the older stuff is horrific by today's standards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5305828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. It’s almost impossible to overstate how good the 3rd Ed rukebook is. Arguably, it’s not a great conceptual introduction to 40K, but it’s a truly incredible portrayal of the setting, and probably the best “game book as art” piece I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine the modern Studio pulling off something half as impressive, and that’s sad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. It’s almost impossible to overstate how good the 3rd Ed rukebook is. Arguably, it’s not a great conceptual introduction to 40K, but it’s a truly incredible portrayal of the setting, and probably the best “game book as art” piece I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine the modern Studio pulling off something half as impressive, and that’s sad. -is literally flipping through and staring at the 3E book now, thus lofts a brow- There's not a ton of full-page or even half page art in the 3E book, probably a half-score of pieces with a lot of little vignettes that show the same angular faced humans with really reaaaaaally punky piercings and bad hair styles. Most of the stuff is front loaded with kind of the genesis of 40K as we know it story-wise, but It's certainly no 'Visions' book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. It’s almost impossible to overstate how good the 3rd Ed rukebook is. Arguably, it’s not a great conceptual introduction to 40K, but it’s a truly incredible portrayal of the setting, and probably the best “game book as art” piece I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine the modern Studio pulling off something half as impressive, and that’s sad. -is literally flipping through and staring at the 3E book now, thus lofts a brow- There's not a ton of full-page or even half page art in the 3E book, probably a half-score of pieces with a lot of little vignettes that show the same angular faced humans with really reaaaaaally punky piercings and bad hair styles. Most of the stuff is front loaded with kind of the genesis of 40K as we know it story-wise, but It's certainly no 'Visions' book. Don't mind me. I think it's very safe to say that 3e-5e was the golden age of Warhammer artwork. There's just nothing that comes close to the peak of Smith's, Gallagher's, Boyd's, etc work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermintide Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Modern GW art is done in the same way as video game concept art. It's quick to produce and uses a lot of digital shortcuts. There are some truly great pieces, and when they do it right, it's beautiful. But sadly I think the art is one of the places they've cut a lot of corners lately, and it's sad because the artwork was always the biggest thing that stuck with me about 40k over the years. You can sometimes see some utterly amateurish proportion, perspective and anatomy issues in the official art.I mean, you expected that guy in the 2nd Ed book drawing everything by hand in ink to make a few mistakes here and there. It was a smaller company with a smaller budget, so you expected those orks to have weird squished heads, you could forgive some totally bizarre paintings like Marneus Calegar on his power armour potty. It had it's charm. When you're doing everything in photoshop, and you're asking for £40 per book, however, I find it pretty disappointing to see artwork that looks like it came from a teenager's DeviantArt. 3rd era artwork was the best, for me. That black and white watercolour style, the gritty black blood and stark shiny metals. Awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereticMarine1 Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. It’s almost impossible to overstate how good the 3rd Ed rukebook is. Arguably, it’s not a great conceptual introduction to 40K, but it’s a truly incredible portrayal of the setting, and probably the best “game book as art” piece I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine the modern Studio pulling off something half as impressive, and that’s sad. -is literally flipping through and staring at the 3E book now, thus lofts a brow- There's not a ton of full-page or even half page art in the 3E book, probably a half-score of pieces with a lot of little vignettes that show the same angular faced humans with really reaaaaaally punky piercings and bad hair styles. Most of the stuff is front loaded with kind of the genesis of 40K as we know it story-wise, but It's certainly no 'Visions' book. Don't mind me. I think it's very safe to say that 3e-5e was the golden age of Warhammer artwork. There's just nothing that comes close to the peak of Smith's, Gallagher's, Boyd's, etc work. I adore the art in the first 3 pics, when i think of chaos marines thats the art i think of, they look brutal. Another one of my favorites from the 5th edition codex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Some of the recent stuff has been great - I think there was a bit more of a low patch 4-5 years ago, when the studio didn't seem to want to invest in new art or artists. That being said, I grew up on some of the 'commission' era art of the late 80s and early 90s & Mark Gibbons etc, and that will probably always be my favourite. Love some of the rulebook art for its character, but I think the stuff below from Les Edwards, Dave Gallagher etc. is still technically even compared to today. These are just a few faves that I would love to have big prints of - but I could have posted dozens! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Pacific81/Models%20stuff/darkangels_lg.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Pacific81/dark_future_highway_warrior.jpg http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/5/17/222710_sm-Gw%202nd%20Edition%20Artwork.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V140bOLcNfc/Tt94XfWSjFI/AAAAAAAABhA/0O37kOInLV0/s1600/EPICCOVE.JPG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. It’s almost impossible to overstate how good the 3rd Ed rukebook is. Arguably, it’s not a great conceptual introduction to 40K, but it’s a truly incredible portrayal of the setting, and probably the best “game book as art” piece I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine the modern Studio pulling off something half as impressive, and that’s sad. -is literally flipping through and staring at the 3E book now, thus lofts a brow- There's not a ton of full-page or even half page art in the 3E book, probably a half-score of pieces with a lot of little vignettes that show the same angular faced humans with really reaaaaaally punky piercings and bad hair styles. Most of the stuff is front loaded with kind of the genesis of 40K as we know it story-wise, but It's certainly no 'Visions' book. Don't mind me. I think it's very safe to say that 3e-5e was the golden age of Warhammer artwork. There's just nothing that comes close to the peak of Smith's, Gallagher's, Boyd's, etc work. Usually I don't do this, but... -sighs- whatever. If ya like it ya like it and that's cool, but it's just not doing it for me. Don't get me wrong, there's some great pieces, but it's always been good with bad for me. Early art is formative but I don't have a sacred cow era or artist, and I have no horse in this race. I mean, Pacific's choice up there is something I grew up on too and just.. eh. It's not me is all I can say. It's not some objectively bad stuff, it's just not one that I'd choose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic_slug Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I don't think Wayne England has been mentioned enough times here. Besides GW, he did a lot of work for D&D and Magic too. I was sad to hear of his passing a few years back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Kopinskis Krieg were my favorite pieces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermintide Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I recently bought the 3rd edition rulebook in near pristine condition off ebay for 99p, absolute bargain. I bought it purely for the inspiring and evocative artwork and lore as well as a nostalgia hit. It’s almost impossible to overstate how good the 3rd Ed rukebook is. Arguably, it’s not a great conceptual introduction to 40K, but it’s a truly incredible portrayal of the setting, and probably the best “game book as art” piece I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine the modern Studio pulling off something half as impressive, and that’s sad. -is literally flipping through and staring at the 3E book now, thus lofts a brow- There's not a ton of full-page or even half page art in the 3E book, probably a half-score of pieces with a lot of little vignettes that show the same angular faced humans with really reaaaaaally punky piercings and bad hair styles. Most of the stuff is front loaded with kind of the genesis of 40K as we know it story-wise, but It's certainly no 'Visions' book. Don't mind me. I think it's very safe to say that 3e-5e was the golden age of Warhammer artwork. There's just nothing that comes close to the peak of Smith's, Gallagher's, Boyd's, etc work. Usually I don't do this, but... -sighs- whatever. If ya like it ya like it and that's cool, but it's just not doing it for me. Don't get me wrong, there's some great pieces, but it's always been good with bad for me. Early art is formative but I don't have a sacred cow era or artist, and I have no horse in this race. I mean, Pacific's choice up there is something I grew up on too and just.. eh. It's not me is all I can say. It's not some objectively bad stuff, it's just not one that I'd choose. If you want to pit the absolute worst of one era against the very best of another era, we can go in circles for hours. Honestly though, as cool as it is to see a near photo-realistic depiction of 40k, it's more Black Hawk Down than gothic sci-fi. The sarcastic "stale" quote on it is true, it evokes no character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 .... If you want to pit the absolute worst of one era against the very best of another era, we can go in circles for hours. Honestly though, as cool as it is to see a near photo-realistic depiction of 40k, it's more Black Hawk Down than gothic sci-fi. The sarcastic "stale" quote on it is true, it evokes no character. Y'make it sound like that's not what people do on a completely regular basis: remember only the best of the best and forget the worst of the worst while reminiscing how much better all the old golden times were. Nostalgia. Like I said, I don't hate any era, and there's no artsy Satan. I ain't rubbing my hands together saying, "Oh that Karl Kopinski, he's just the worst. He's never done any good art, EVER!" One of the images I remember remarkably well and like a ton is... And yes, 100% I miss the look of the old metal Cadians, they will never look half as good again! Guess who? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 No one does guard like Karl. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Some of the examples from Vykes are hilarious. It's exactly what I had in mind when I pointed out some of the older stuff is unacceptable by today's standards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 No one does guard like Karl. Kopinski is very much either 'great' or '...' for me. I'm not a huge fan of his more 'sketchy' images, and I think he did the 4E cadian art which I always felt made them look like gormless peasants (and he did Empire state troopers which also look it, and they look great!) ... buuuuut.... Art from the Only War series got them for me, and lo and behold, and some just migrated into the newer codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Yup some of the early stuff is quite poor - certainly late 80s, if you look at the Rogue Trader book they obviously had to fill it with artwork and some of it was definitely filler. I'd argue it was still very characterful, although that's a personal thing. Remember in the early days you had a lot of commission-per-piece artists - Les Edwards etc (did a load of the Heroquest box art) who had established careers outside of GW - still do in a lot of cases. I think then there was a jump in quality from some of the mad airbrushed and oil work (honestly I think on a technical level some of it was up there with the very best sci-fi/fantasy art of the time) to some of the GW-stable artists at that time (with some exceptions - Mark Gibbons etc). I suppose the good thing again now is that at least GW are spending some money on art and artists - there was a period when they didn't, or very sparingly at least, and some of the new stuff (I have to say, seems mostly with AoS and the specialist games -perhaps a bit more room for imagination there) is stunning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I don't think Wayne England has been mentioned enough times here. Besides GW, he did a lot of work for D&D and Magic too. I was sad to hear of his passing a few years back. When Wayne England was one of Wizards of the Coast's go-to artists, around mid- to late Third Edition D&D, it started to bother me how 95% of the artwork he did was this kind of "single figure staring directly at the viewer, completely front-on" work, to the point that it was a relief when they started having him just draw illustrations of magic weapons and whatnot where a flat presentation was appropriate. The only modern artist I don't really like is whoever it is who draws Space Marines with heads that are 80% the size they should be: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnok Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I think it depends on your definition of "old". In my opinion the best artwork came out of 3rd and 4th edition. 2nd edition had some excellent stuff as well, but also lots of the RT sillyness that I do not like at all. Later editions also had good stuff, but much less than before. There are exceptions, but in general I dislike the new "digital art". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Codex Chaos Space Marines 3.5, Codex Space Marines 4th and Codex Necrons 3rd edition. That is all there is to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 One of my favorite pieces of artwork appears on the Dark Heresy RPG book Blood of Martyrs: https://static1.paizo.com/image/product/catalog/FFG/FFGDH12_500.jpeg No idea who made it, how old it is or if it existed beforehand, but it captures the techno-gothic feeling of the 40k setting perfectly, while still having a realistic style. For me this is the benchmark of all 40k artwork. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5306371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Isn't a lot of this down to their copyright scuffle with Chapterhouse, which stopped them asserting copyright over things they didn't make? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5307561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I don't care for Blanche's art style. It looks like red yellow and black scribbles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355664-am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-old-gw-codexrulebook-art/page/2/#findComment-5307769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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