Help building fluff and lore for warband

[General Strike]

So, I was hoping you guys would be able to help me with some of the fluff and lore for my warband, and to help me choose the best lore direction to expand my collection. I want my force to be a Coven of Sorcerors led by a Sorceror Lord, who focus on heavy weapons, daemon engines, obliterators, and tanks. Every marine in the force is either a Sorceror, Havok, Obliterator, or armored in TDA. What legion should they spawn from, and what should I start my collection with?

[Sanctimonius]

Lore-wise, Tzeentchian armies tend to favour more magic users than the other Gods, so you're probably looking at an off-shoot of Thousand Sons with support from a Dark Mechanicus power. It sounds like you're best off looking at Thousands Sons as a primary force, with a supporting detachment of daemon engines/heavy support. 

[General Strike]

I wish we had like Rubric Havoks

[Furnace Lord]

You could easily be an Iron Warriors offshoot who focused on sorcery, as well. The Eye of Terror brings out the gift in many.

Let me ask a few things that might help narrow down a theme. Do you want a warband that's an offshoot of a legion, or a renegade chapter? Do any Chaos gods in particular appeal to you, do you like to pick and choose your favorite things between them, or do you like a more Undivided approach of Chaos and warpcraft in general (Tzeentch loves sorcerers, but there's plenty of Nurgle, Slaanesh, and unaligned groups of sorcerers out there)? You say you don't want any marines that aren't in those particular categories, do you plan on using cultists; if so how does your warband view its cultists....acolytes, assets, pawns, or even outright slaves?

[MegaVolt87]

You could easily be an Iron Warriors offshoot who focused on sorcery, as well. The Eye of Terror brings out the gift in many.

 

Let me ask a few things that might help narrow down a theme. Do you want a warband that's an offshoot of a legion, or a renegade chapter? Do any Chaos gods in particular appeal to you, do you like to pick and choose your favorite things between them, or do you like a more Undivided approach of Chaos and warpcraft in general (Tzeentch loves sorcerers, but there's plenty of Nurgle, Slaanesh, and unaligned groups of sorcerers out there)? You say you don't want any marines that aren't in those particular categories, do you plan on using cultists; if so how does your warband view its cultists....acolytes, assets, pawns, or even outright slaves?

 

IW with a focus on sorcery? Sounds similar to silver skulls and their librarians, probably not related no need of further investigation into silver skulls origins. 

[General Strike]

@Furnace Lord

 

I think maybe IW would be good, I have a loyalist force of Black Templars as their sworn enemy. I also fancy Slaanesh most of the Dark Gods. They view their cultists as the future, training some highly as future astartes and as Assassins to kill mortal enemy commanders before a seige or attack.

[Furnace Lord]

@Furnace Lord

 

I think maybe IW would be good, I have a loyalist force of Black Templars as their sworn enemy. I also fancy Slaanesh most of the Dark Gods. They view their cultists as the future, training some highly as future astartes and as Assassins to kill mortal enemy commanders before a seige or attack.

Okay, cool. Now some more questions. None of this is criticism, just things to think about to help refine the character of your warband.

 

Now, are they still part of their Legion or have they broken away to do their own thing? Do they use Iron Warriors colors? What drives them more towards Slaanesh and how far down the road of Excess are they? Remember that space marine initiates must be chosen young, though adolescent soldiers trying to prove themselves worthy is certainly a thing. Also the Iron Warriors tend to use their human troops as absolute cannon fodder, why do your marines treat them so much better?

[General Strike]

I think they should have broken away, maybe they hate Perturabo and his methods, and value the life of Astartes as above all others. Demi-Gods before men, maybe it isn't all Cultists they treat this way, with a mass of cultists fed into the battles in place of Astartes lives. Only the chosen few, the advisors, scribes, and possible successors of each Astartes are trained or treated as more because of what they may become? Does that still work? Maybe Slaanesh because of the simplest form of pursuing perfection in war and slaughter?

 

And feel free to shoot down ideas or help me shape them and ask questions, thats why I asked you guys for help is Ive been stuck for a while on this.

[MegaVolt87]

I think they should have broken away, maybe they hate Perturabo and his methods, and value the life of Astartes as above all others. Demi-Gods before men, maybe it isn't all Cultists they treat this way, with a mass of cultists fed into the battles in place of Astartes lives. Only the chosen few, the advisors, scribes, and possible successors of each Astartes are trained or treated as more because of what they may become? Does that still work? Maybe Slaanesh because of the simplest form of pursuing perfection in war and slaughter?

 

And feel free to shoot down ideas or help me shape them and ask questions, thats why I asked you guys for help is Ive been stuck for a while on this.

 

 Mainline IW in 40K already have this attitude anyway about themselves to mortals beneath them (no/low respect, selected competent mortal underlings). You could have buddy buddy IW and the Game of thrones style drama amongst the mortal followers for the IW entertainment etc. "he is my brother but I hate him and kill him if they are weak/ I can lvl up" is far too overdone for CSM IMO, only so many ways you can tell that for super human soldiers. 

[General Strike]

Yeah, the focus being the chosen mortals screwing each other over to be elevated. With the Legionnaires playing such a focused role in the warband, aka obsessing over magics or heavy destruction, maybe their is significantly less astartes compared to mortals.

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah, the focus being the chosen mortals screwing each other over to be elevated. With the Legionnaires playing such a focused role in the warband, aka obsessing over magics or heavy destruction, maybe their is significantly less astartes compared to mortals.

 

If a legionary interacts in the petty squabbles it could also be a significant enough part of the narrative you are making. Having mortals involved in the HH really strengthened that story telling that was going on. Could be just me, only so much bolter porn I can sit through while reading. 

[General Strike]

Do rubrics work well in non Thousand Son lists? Or should I stick to the Tsons codex.

[Syrakul]

Do rubrics work well in non Thousand Son lists? Or should I stick to the Tsons codex.

One thing the CSM codex can apparently do over tsons is take a soulreaper cannon in 5 models, though to maximize their longevity 10 man with more psyker support is best (warptime slow unit into bolter/ smite range, or improve invun. if situation calls for protection from plasma or something.) and I suspect tsons have much better support there.

 

On paper rubric feel expensive for another t4 1w model. Most armies have the right firepower to pluck though your special defensive bonus (weight of fire  with -1 ap typically does it) but they are a good distraction as their ap2 bolters will put the fear into opponents, especially after bolter drill means you don`t worry as much about their slow movement. Get em forward one turn and they can sit)

 

Modelling wise if Tsons will be your 'base CSM' to demonstrate their elevated level you could always "counts-as" a thousand sons detachment. Models that look how you want (IW colors, CSM bodies with conversions, etc) but are represented in the rules by tsons.

so:

tsons battalion with tsons sorcerers, 3x rubric squads

IW spearhead with havocs, obliterators, daemon engines (can also fit 1-2 elite here without making 3rd detachment)

 

But if the points are:

Marines are precious, occupy elevated roles

Respect for human renegade forces, building them up (I like the concept, marines making their own guard equiv, though i think keeping these forces armed and fed is abit much without the full weight the Imperium has in comparison. Maybe they still use the dregs as fodder but quickly reorganize the humans that prove their worth into competent warriors)

 

Then could keep marines to a spearhead/vanguard with HQs, terminators, heavy etc., I would maybe say add cultists here to fill out as a battalion

Add renegades and heretics elite options as its own vanguard detachment. Both Disciples and Marauders from that FW Index list are decent and work as elite human level forces well.

I wouldn't flesh out the renegedes into battalion because HQs are worthless there and their cultists won't benefit from CSM strats.

[the emperor is scottish]

You could go iron warriors.

A coven of iron warrior sorcerers who specialise in biomancy.

Cast out of the legion for their practise.

As the years pass and more and more of them fall to bolter and blade they rely more and more on their engines and delve deeper and further into the arts.

[Ketzer]

I don't want to kill all your pre-works... but when i read "Sorceror Lord, who focus on heavy weapons, daemon engines, obliterators, and tanks" I tought: sounds like some kind of Deamonkin Army.

So you could go for a Sorcerer OR you could go for a Master of Possession - or both.

Iron Warriors would be a good way - but also Black Legion (which works for everything - sorry guys. no offense meant)

An isolated group of Black Legionares - maybe forgotten by the Warmaster. Or if you want to go wild with conversion you even could go for some Oathbroken.

They turned to Sorcery and Possession to keep the force in a fighting condition - and maybe even became good at it.