New Slaanesh models:what to build around

[Brother Crimson]

Rules are leaked to interwebs and they have some very nice new rules.

 

I really think about using the contorted epitome. For a bit more points than a demon prince you get a lot: +1 to cast, 2 spells per turn, anti fall back aura if you beat ld on 3D6. I think this model could be an important piece to both Slaanesh builds and undivided armies.

 

The new herald/DP mix in one is nice too even if a bit expensive and I might get two different HQ for bataillions instead.

 

Any ideas on how to use the new keeper of secrets ?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think the mirror will be a must take - not only for the reasons you give, but it is the only non-index herald that can keep up with the faster slaaneshi daemons such as seekers and chariots.

 

The prince/herald combo is good, and can really buff large blocks of deamonettes.

 

The keeper of secrets just seems like a target - its too easy to kill things in 8th edition, so I don't see much place for it, unfortunately.

[BitsHammer]

In addition to the Mirror I'd argue that it has a fair bit of synergy with the Infernal Enrapturess due to the perils on any doubles rule our new musical talent brings. If we can't stop them from casting we can make them more likely to suffer for it.

 

Plus the harp has a decent shooting profile and some much needed S8. Keep her somewhere central to your Daemonette blobs to help mitigate casualties a bit more too.

 

Basically she's solid support choice for most lists.

 

The most wholesome couple is great for busting through screens and then consolidating into a character behind the screen for maximum damage. Definitely give them the +D3 attacks trait if they're your warlord (assuming they don't have one locked in).

 

The Keeper feels like it's best used as a massive distraction. Give it the Shield (or the 6+ FnP power, though if you take the power then take the healing hand too so you can heal some more) and the relic Slaanesh sword a large number of wounds back onto the Keeper if you go mulching hordes.

 

I mean you could run multiple of them (probably worth it if you want to run the named Keeper, or are playing a game with a lot of titanic models) but one as a fast moving threat that can pinch into enemy lines on turn one is definitely worth it (just deploy out of LOS just in case you go second). Take the extra movement WT if you want the alpha strike, the extra attacks if you want to give Nurgle a run for the money on your ability to heal, or make someone else the Warlord if you're concerned about losing the model to enemy shooting.

 

I admit that I am biased having used Celestine as a high prioruty target even back with Codex Witchhunters, but dropping under 300 points on a distraction unit your opponent -has- to pay attention to or suffer for isn't a bad idea in larger games. Every shot at the Keeper is one not at your other important units (or chariots).

[Panzer]

Syll'Esske and the Contorted Epitome definitely are nice and will find their way in many lists. The Contorted Epitome basically replaces any mounted Herald if you aren't low on points and as long as you don't need FLY then Syll'Esske is a great alternative for a regular winged Daemon Prince.

 

About the Keeper of Secrets ... well I'll take one in my list because the model is awesome but I'd fool myself if I'd expect it to survive turn 1 in a pure Daemon list. It's super squishy at T7 W16 Sv5++ (for comparison, a Maulerfiend has T7 W13 Sv3+/5++ heals 1 wound automatically per turn and costs only half as many points) and pure Daemon lists don't really offer alternative targets for your opponents anti-tank shooting. In a mixed chaos list it would have much better chances to reach melee since you'd have daemon engines and tanks in your list as well.

 

I was thinking Witstealer Sword relic and the Hand for max wound regeneration, however I noticed that the Witstealer Sword relic only gives +1S like the old Witstealer Sword used to so the KoS would end up with only S7 instead of S8 ... and it wouldn't help with surviving turn 1 anyway. Aegis would be great if it'd offer more than just a 6+++. I'm not even going to consider that. The Knife is a bit underwhelming too imo.

In the end it's about the hand for some wound generation in case it actually reaches melee or the whip for some additional S6 AP-2 D2 shots.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I still cant find point costs for the Epitome :-/

 

However, here my thoughts:

 

New KoS looks amazing but has the same problems as before. He will get killed to easily. Maybe if you mix him with CSM tanks / engines or other greater Daemons...

Looking at his equipment I think the whip is the way to go. Potentially it does the most damage. Second for me is the healing hand, but I doubt the D3 wounds per turn will make a big change. If someone wants to see the keeper dead it will most likely die in one turn. Aegis is fishing for 6es. Statistically it is like the KoS going from 16 wounds to 19 wounds, which is not that amazing, especially since it is the most expensive option. The knive is just bad. The whip will deal more dmage throughout the game most of the time.

By the way: Why are there 2 whips in this pack? Do they look different?

 

The special KoS is strange too. I dont think he is worth it at all. Small characters will get killed in one go by a regular KoS, there is no need overkilling them.

When fighting monsters, the spear is slightly better (3,5 damage on average per wound compared to 3 from the sword). Again, the special rule only triggers on 6es, so nothing to rely on. BUT: When you fight something big like maybe a Bloodthirster, there is a high chance it will survive. Shalaxi gives a -1 to hit and a -1 to wound, which is nice. The normal KoS with the sword gives -1 to hit because of his aura and most likely another -1 to hit because of wounding with the sword. It is nice not to get wounded after being hit, but it is even better not getting hit at all.

So for me Shalaxi does only little more than a regular KoS (which can get Relics and WLT as you wish) but as soon as the enemy strikes back the regular KoS has better chances.

 

 

The Epitome is a big surprise for me. The model looks realy static but can keep up with our Seekers and Fiends. The support abilities are amazing. Cast 2 powers with +1, deny 2 powers with +1, +1 S Aura, stop enemys from falling back and on top of that it hits nearly as hard as a Prince.

I would have loved to put the Slothfull Claws on it, but unfortunately the 8 attacks are part of the Ravaging Claws rule. So as soon as you replace them with the Relic, RAW you will loose these 8 attacks. The Epitome itself has only 2 attacks in the profile. Maybe no one thought about that issue in advance...

Not knowing the point costs I am not sure if it is an auto include or not, but the rules are amazing.

 

 

Talking about auto include: Syll Esske is one for me! 9" movement with advance and charge is solid, he should see CC turn 2 most of the times. Since he is a small character he can hide behind Seekers and the likes. In addition to the +S and reroll hits he also gives a bonus to moral. Not as good as the Bilepiper, but it can help, especially with some Icons around. And with his ability to fight twice you can smash through a screening unit with the whip and use the axe against the more juicy target behind. Plus he is still a psyker that knows 2 powers + Smite. So good.

I like the combination with the Slaanesh Stratagem that generates extra attacks on wound rolls of 6. The Herold has 8d3 attacks. Every wound roll of 6 generates another d3 attacks because it is part of the weapons rule! On average that should be somewhere around 20 hits S5 AP-1 from just a single model BEFORE the axe strikes.

 

 

I think a basis for a Mono Slaanesh list can look like:

Epitome

Syll Esske

3x30 Daemonettes

20 Seeker

 

That should be about 1350 points depending on the Epitomes costs, leaving room for maybe an Enrapturess and some Fiends for a 1500 points army.

Seekers will get the 6+ FnP and maybe the 4++ Stratagem because your opponent will most likely focus them down first. Maybe they draw enough fire turn 1 so that your Daemonettes get into CC turn 2 relatively intact.

[Ahzek451]

I really want to use a keeper but I am hesitant (like most) due to the easy turn one potential death. I think I will be tinkering with setting aside points for summoning and trying this route. The main reason why is because slaanesh is unique in how quick and fast the army is. In some games you could even pull off a first turn charge with some units or at the very least get up in the enemies face. Considering this and the new FAQ clarification, I can use the harp ladies to help summon one first turn. This would prevent any instant death from not getting first turn, and by this point, there will be so many other slaanesh units in the enemies face that there may be some target priority issues. Maybe lock a few things down with the mirror and feinds. 

 

Without some allies, a pure Slaanesh daemon list will suffer against flyer spam armies. 

[BitsHammer]

With GW locking us out of properly being able to take a weapon upgrade on the Mirror (pending FAQ in the future at least), I feel like the gem is the best option to take. With the fast movement speed the Mirror can keep up with our front line attack elements and being able to lock something into combat by using the gem on it (say, an important character or a knight) is never a bad option.

 

As for flyers, I feel like Daemon Princes might be our only option in a pure daemon army (since you can charge flyers with units with fly) and they do a fair amount of work to help with that.

 

Anyone else getting the feeling that we're starting to become a little HQ heavy in terms of options? I'm starting to think points should be left aside for one option or another (say a KoS or DP or a couple of Heralds) and depending on the opponent determines what to bring instead.

 

That or we could go with a double Battalion supported by a supreme command detachment. I'm more partial to building towards a Brigade since we have a lot of cheap options (chariots) to fill slots with and those can do some work (plus add to vehicle saturation on the board).

[Panzer]

Yeah I'll take the gem on the Epitome as well. Either that or the Mark of Excess. If we'll get an Errata that lets us Slothful Claws with all 8 attacks on the Epitome then this will be my go-to relic though. 8 attacks hitting on 2+ with S7 AP-2/-4 D2 is just sick.

[Ahzek451]

With GW locking us out of properly being able to take a weapon upgrade on the Mirror (pending FAQ in the future at least), I feel like the gem is the best option to take. With the fast movement speed the Mirror can keep up with our front line attack elements and being able to lock something into combat by using the gem on it (say, an important character or a knight) is never a bad option.

That could be fun. Hopefully this will be fixed in a codex update relatively soon. Honestly I was hoping for a masque adjustment/update. I have not received my models yet, does she get an updated datasheet in her instructions or same as the current codex?

[BitsHammer]

I won't be getting models until next week (and after overcommitting on some resin bases this week's purchases will be pretty light), but with everything dropping tomorrow we should have a solid idea of the new rules and points pretty soon.

 

Now a thought that has just crosses my mind: a Renegade Knight might be our best ally option for the army. It provides a second target to protect the Los, adds in anti-air support if you take an Icarus Autocannon and be set up to help us shred through things we'd normally have trouble with. Not a mono-daemon option, but it feels like a solid support option even if you stick with one of the cheaper Knights and not the Castellan. Just be careful with Knights as they can quickly turn into a points sink if you get a big crazy in taking options.

[Panzer]

A Knight in my daemon army? Only over my dead body lol. Maybe in a mixed chaos list (though I'd much rather take some daemon engines), but not in a daemon list. ;)

[Ahzek451]

It's a good thought. There are a few slaanesh knight conversion bits that are inspiring. Just wish we could dedicate knights to the gods via keyword. My plan is to play with the daemons a bit and get a good feel for them even if it means getting trounced by flyers. However, that is up until emperors children get there codex and a flying fulgrim backed by noise weapons will create a balanced unholy union. 

[BitsHammer]

I agree it definitely pushes us more towards mixed Chaos if we take a knight, but thay might be the best place we can sneak a Keeper of Secrets in. The named keeper (I really need to learn how to spell those names) could be a lot of fun there as he could hunt an enemy xharacter knight.

 

I really wish the Renegade rules were more robust with options for marks and possession (who doesn't want a knight that counts as a Daemon of Slaanesh?), but at least the conversion options are pretty good.

[Brother Crimson]

We just have to wait for Fulgrim to hit the store and the fire will be split between KoS and him.

[BitsHammer]

We just have to wait for Fulgrim to hit the store and the fire will be split between KoS and him.

While true, I feel like that will still put us with a mixed Chaos list. Basically the Keeper needs friends to be effective.

 

At least he's not pointed too badly.

[Ahzek451]

Hoping for some adjustments when the daemon codex drops. I was at least hoping for some sort of aura, relic, ability, etc. With all the new stuff. That was like "he look at me! I'm beautiful! You dont want to shoot me!" Ability that caused a minus to shooting.