Houserule buff to GK

[Waking Dreamer]

I'm not personally opposed to all marines houseruling to have +1W and A. The whole Primaris thing is something I won't touch on as it tends to elicit a variety of emotional responses.

I like the initial pistol 4 effect too, but have to concede it's probably a bit much, even though the rule for it is easier to write.

Getting the feeling that the +1W/A, NFW, SB buffs are the absolute limit of buffage before significantly affecting points cost.

Well if you have standard 13pt (you could even bump them to 14pts) marines, starting with the same wounds and attacks as PAGKs, then for 21pts total...I think it's actually alright. People need to remember Purgation and Purifier squads don't get deep-strike and the former especially, will not have the NFW or SB buffs to benefit from (aside from the 1 Justicar), while starting at 19pts. Yikes!

[Trevak Dal]

Which the grey Knights should ALL have deep strike built in, as expensive as they are.

 

Fellas I lean Wardian on things like this.

[Waking Dreamer]

These ideas are meant as additions to current GK with their points being unchanged. Like how GW brought in Bolter Discipline.

Aegis Armour: the justification for GK infantry to have +1 wound and attack to their profile.

(Yes I know Aegis Armour of old was the psychic defence, but given how all GK can deny now, that component is redundant)

 

I'm curious would this apply equally to GKTs and Paladins? It would be a good opportunity to house rule a more even choice between them. I'm thinking +1W/A for GKT but having +1A/WS for Paladins all around. That along with their already +1Ld, +1 Special weapon (per 5 man), would be enough for an 8 point increase over GKT...??

[Atrus]

I had intended it as a blanket addition. So GKT and Paladins benefiting each as well.

Truth be told I'd forgotten about Paladins.

[Waking Dreamer]

I had intended it as a blanket addition. So GKT and Paladins benefiting each as well.

Truth be told I'd forgotten about Paladins.

 

That's okay, for GK players it has been a general consensus that in 8ed Paladins >> GKTs for their respective points costs (a reverse of 7ed ironically). 

 

I'm not really one for mathhammer, but if I'm correct in my number crunching currently:

- For approx. +20% in points, Paladins increases in Wounds +50%, Attacks +50%, +1WS/Ld (Paragon), +1 Special Weapon (per 5-man)

 

With consistent House-rules it becomes:

- For approx. +20% in points, Paladins increases in Wounds +33%, Attacks +33%, +1WS/Ld (Paragon), +1 Special Weapon (per 5-man)

 

So, the gap has definitely become smaller while making both units better. We can also consider GKTs naturally having ObSec and add to battalion requirements which is decent leverage in of itself. I was just wondering with those changes would Paladins still be a superior choice over GKTs...? I'll leave it for other forum members to add their input.

 

My 2 cents, keep Paladins at 3W (was there much demand for them to have more...?), but apply the +1A and have them all WS2+ (similar to 7ed), letting them have a solid combat edge.

[Naggi]

Hi,

 

generally i like most of Ideas, but i struggle most with den durability of our outnumberd troops.

The Idea of +1W +1A is valuable, but a bit boring. My ideas to buff up GK are:

 

When a GK unit deepstrikes, all enemy models suffer a -1 toHit penalty until the next GK players turn. Futhermore, enemy units can not fire overwatch when charged by a GK-Unit that deepstriked that turn.

-> This is the idea of the blinding light of the GK-Teleporter (orientated at the Bifrost-Light from Thor). With that, you buff the GK most iconic tactic - Deepstriking

 

A army-wide 5+ FNP for Mortal wounds in the Psi-Phase. 6s reflect a mortal wound

 

Termis are not viable in general atm. To buff their durability, i would give them the rule to reduce incoming damage by 1 to a minimum of 1, so that dmg2-weapons (Plasma!) not longer that devastating for them. (And its only relevant for weapons which to 2 damage)

 

Additionally Power-Armor-Marines are not really viable today too :-(. To fix that, i would add following rules:

 

1) Every Troop-Type Unit of Space Marines in Power Armor adds one Command-Point

-> Buff the tactical viabilty

2) Stratagem(1CP):  Use at the End of your turn. A  Troop-Type Unit of Space Marines in Power Armor  within 3" of an Objective-Marker gets +1A, +1to Saves until the start for your next turn

-> Buff the ability to hold important Objectives

3) Stratagem(1CP): Use at the End of your Movement- or Fight-Phase. A Troop-Type Unit of Space Marines in Power Armor not within 3" of enemy models but 6" within an Objective-Marker can Move D6 Inches.

-> Buff the ability to get important Objectives

 

 

After Battalion CP raised to 5, other Detachments (Vanguard, ....) should give 2CP instead of one.

 

 

My3cents

Naggi

[Beams]

Hi,

 

generally i like most of Ideas, but i struggle most with den durability of our outnumberd troops.

The Idea of +1W +1A is valuable, but a bit boring. My ideas to buff up GK are:

 

When a GK unit deepstrikes, all enemy models suffer a -1 toHit penalty until the next GK players turn. Futhermore, enemy units can not fire overwatch when charged by a GK-Unit that deepstriked that turn.

-> This is the idea of the blinding light of the GK-Teleporter (orientated at the Bifrost-Light from Thor). With that, you buff the GK most iconic tactic - Deepstriking

 

A army-wide 5+ FNP for Mortal wounds in the Psi-Phase. 6s reflect a mortal wound

 

Termis are not viable in general atm. To buff their durability, i would give them the rule to reduce incoming damage by 1 to a minimum of 1, so that dmg2-weapons (Plasma!) not longer that devastating for them. (And its only relevant for weapons which to 2 damage)

 

Additionally Power-Armor-Marines are not really viable today too :-(. To fix that, i would add following rules:

 

1) Every Troop-Type Unit of Space Marines in Power Armor adds one Command-Point

-> Buff the tactical viabilty

2) Stratagem(1CP): Use at the End of your turn. A Troop-Type Unit of Space Marines in Power Armor within 3" of an Objective-Marker gets +1A, +1to Saves until the start for your next turn

-> Buff the ability to hold important Objectives

3) Stratagem(1CP): Use at the End of your Movement- or Fight-Phase. A Troop-Type Unit of Space Marines in Power Armor not within 3" of enemy models but 6" within an Objective-Marker can Move D6 Inches.

-> Buff the ability to get important Objectives

 

 

After Battalion CP raised to 5, other Detachments (Vanguard, ....) should give 2CP instead of one.

 

 

My3cents

Naggi

Giving GK the ability to ignore overwatch when they deepstrike is an easy way to make sure no one wants to play against GK.

 

Denying overwatch is already considered a Negative Play Experience, as is charge from deepstrike, since both remove player agency

[Waking Dreamer]

I just realised the -1 to invuln save for NFWs, naturally makes the NF Sword a better choice against units with Storm shields or Iron Halos. So there doesn't need to be any additonal rules to make them more competitive against the Twin Falchions or Halberd (like we were discussing in another thread).

[Yossarion]

less rules more rework only listing my changes if its not listed it wasnt changed unless it was an oversight, additionally these may be overtuned, its easier to nerf something to balanced compared to buffing it.

 

army passives

daemonbane - ignores hit penalties in melee and reroll to wound vs DAEMONs

 

aegis armor- 5+++ in psychic phase vs MWs. Gives you something more to do in opponents phase that doesnt feel as gamey as rerolling 1s on a DtW

 

unit changes

 

all power armored gk get +1 A

 

all TERMINATORs can fire their ranged weapons in CC. need to have a reason to cost double a strike squad

 

paladins- 2+ eat wounds for nearby grey knight characters. theyre body guards like SM honor guard.

 

Bro Cap- lose smite aura gain reroll 1s to wound to gks within 6"

 

Libby- double smite aura from Brocap

 

Chaplain- reroll prayers to gks within 6"

 

GM- reroll damage rolls of 1 on nemesis force weapons (no daemon needed) gks within 6" aura

 

draigo- reroll all damage rolls on nemesis force weapons (no daemon needed) gks within 6" aura

 

prayers

in the spirit of old psychic powers i feel prayers answer a common grievance with the army, a unit can only roll for either prayer once unless otherwise modified.

hammerhand- functions identically as it currently does, roll 1 die on a 3+ gain the effect

sanctuary- same as psyker power, on a 3+ on 1 die.

 

essentially you pick if the unit will be offensive or defensive. These are done in the psychic phase and can not be denied.

 

new stratagem

1 CP lets you roll for the other prayer on the same unit.

 

psychic powers

hammerhand and sanc are now prayers replacing them are

shrouding- cost of 8 gives -1 to hit in a 6" bubble, also enemies measure 12" less to shoot at you. (probably needs to be tuned down)

power i cant think of a name for- casts on a 6 lets you manifest a 2nd prayer

 

 weapons

swords- -2 to invuln saves as well

falchions- now reroll to wound instead of +1 A

other melee weapons might need a change, i cant think of any for either that feel appropriate

 

psycannon - damage 2.

 

for stratagems you could probably just reduce the cost of all our stratagems other than honor the chapter and death does duty end and we'd be fine there too. tell me what you think, whats op and what looks neat. there is a lot of redundancy with reroll wounds i know.

[Captain Antargo]

Yes, I Agree as the Nemesis force sword is just a slightly upgraded Power sword with nothing special about it at all