What do you consider a fluffy list

[MajorNese]

-not using kinda-specific characters. Most notably Captain Acheran of the Ultramarines, who isn't technically a "named character" ruleswise, but I hope people modify his model if they want to field a Phobos Captain from something other than the Ultramarines 4th (?) Company

The historically correct "fluffy list" - yep, some value that. Might be a bit specific though - GW usually "maps" all ranks to specific models to inspire sales. The C:SM list of UM companies explicitly states which model would have to be used as captain for which company (Master of Relics, Lord Executioner,...), only using those "historically correct" models would limit things considerably. And will probably be retconned soon enough.

 

Not to mention that few chapters are even that detailed - the chapter master might be known, but often it ends there already. The primaris coverage is also not explicitly mentioned for many chapters - though if you ask GW, the reply will surely be the usual "The chapter got decimated, Girlyman brought primaris, and they were gladly accepted."

 

Personally, the historically correct list is too specific for me, and has no consequences for the game. As long as the list in question makes sense in terms of era, levels of engagement and playstyle, it works for me. No one will ever complain if your captain has a different name or loadout than in a mostly unread corner of the codex, but facing hardcore lists of Girlyman, leviathans, castellan and loyal 32 is something quite different.

[TrawlingCleaner]

I consider fluffy lists to be a theme or story that you've built a list around. My Chapter are siege and trench fighters specialists, so a lot of my lists are going to be based around 30 intercessors and aggressors. I don't think fluffy should mean that you're pigeonholed into picking certain units either. Night lords don't have to take raptors, white scars and ravenguard don't have to take bikes and assault marines etc.I also think that you should play the way that you want to play and have fun however you have fun. There are plenty of people that only like playing narrative or fluffy lists and there's plenty of people that like playing ruthlessly competitive games and both are okay. You shouldn't mark anyone down because they play a certain way.

[MajorNese]

I consider fluffy lists to be a theme or story that you've built a list around.

[...]

There are plenty of people that only like playing narrative or fluffy lists and there's plenty of people that like playing ruthlessly competitive games and both are okay. You shouldn't mark anyone down because they play a certain way.

Agreed on both points. My post was just about what I consider fluffy, and as stated before - there are circumstances (esp. tournaments) where no one expects lists to be even close to fluffy, and as long as everyone is on the same page, that's absolutely okay.

 

And yes, the theme is the important part, not necessarily having everything written down in some GW publication. My Raptors have gone full primaris (oldmarines got boring after 4 army projects), but still they prefer sneaky precision bolters, ambush with automated platforms (tarantulas, deathstorm pods) and fast units to close the deal. There is no mention if Raptors even got primaris, but the theme itself fits. For the steamroll approach, I'm building an IH successor...

[Panzer]

I'd like to differentiate there. Themed lists are often (but not always!) fluffy, but not every fluffy needs to follow a specific theme since a regular all-comers deployment can be just as fluffy.

[Kinstryfe]

The charm of 40k is that almost anything you can build into a list can be considered fluffy. It's quite deliberate, as GW wants any army to rea$onably be able to include any model that they sell. So it's perfectly "fluffy" to have a force of White Scars Dreadnaughts and Vehicles who are the anvil to the bikers' hammer when they fight huge engagements, or an Iron Hands fast assault force they use to harass the enemy before the big guns move into position. After all Astartes are experts at all sorts of warfare; hust because they prefer one type doesn't mean they can't or won't excel at another when it's called for.

 

In a lot of ways then, the term "fluffy" just means that you have a story to rationalize the why of your army. Your all-assault and bike Ultramarines are an assault company, and so on. What a lot of people think of as fluffy is maybe better to consider Archetypical. White Scars bikers, Iron Hands Dreads, Raven Guard assault marines, are all things that the background leads us to believe will be common inclusions. I think those common things are what makes a force fluffy for a lot of people. There are for sure bunches of dreadnaughts in the White Scars but there are a whole lot more bikers, and I think that that's what a lot of people mean by fluffy.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Also lists which mix two known-associated or thematically similar factions. Ultramarines and Custodes. Iron Hands and the Adeptus Mechanicus. Black Templars and the Ecclesiarchy. Daemons of Nurgle and Death Guard. Grey Knights or Deathwatch and Inquisition. Knights or Titans and AdMech too.

[MegaVolt87]

Easiest way for a fluffy list is to do a historical one based off a Black Library novel. Or just focusing on signature stuff that is in the faction, eg Salamanders with melta, flame weapons, thunder hammer terminators etc. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think the main trait of a fluffy list is that means justify the ends. Whether your building around your favorite models, chapters themes, recreating a strike force, or in Brother Tyler's example building a strike force that the chapter would create for a certain mission your going to end up with something fluffly/thematic. It's when someone makes a list then tries justify it with fluff that it bugs me.

[Tamiel]

If you bring 10 man squads, you're fluffy in my book.

[Schlitzaf]

Pardon the bump; but fluffy is for most the “stereotype” army. For Templars that is a massive black tide or raider rush style list. Codex Chapters might be a more traditional combined arms list. For me personally, a fluffy or as I prefer saying a flavor friendly list is a list that;

1) Is Adherent to the Chapter Core Themes

2) A List designed to be that Chapter

3) “Your” List

 

I’ll get back to three in a moment but 1&2 are intertwined. As a Templar, I have a set of three principles (to which I imagine every Templar player has, consciously or unconsciously)

1) Thou Must Never Use Tacticals

-Related concepts: thou must never use Devies or Walking Assaults

2) Thou Must Never Use Scouts

-This for me includes Scout Bikes and Storms

3) Thou Must Never employ the Witch

-Including Allied With

 

Now this is important in its entirety as pre-Primaris a Templar player would almost certainly make extensive use of its Crusader Squad. The chapter second most iconic unit and what in many ways defines the chapter. Number 3 is important is that is a fundamental part of the stereotype of the chapter. Notice what I didn’t say is anywhere is Chainswords. That comes onto designed to be that chapter which is different than being adherent to chapter stereotypes. A chapter being adherent can be used to excuse an army lack of flavor.

 

2) Designed to be that Chapter; Templars famously retain MSU Heavy/Special/Special. Meaning a RazorSpam using that list concept would adhere to the stereotype but would not be designed to be a list of that chapter.

 

Better put, Templars have several things, but among those several things only have of those are supportive of a ranged build (Heavy/Special/Special) 5 Man.

 

Otherwise between Cenobytes, ability to swap weapon, our 3 Special Characters, our Vigilus detachment and our codex relic, warlord and chapter trait. You have a set of rules that want reward a Templar Force for getting up close and personal. All 3 of our characters and Warlord trait have rules that benefit from getting up close and Personal to buff our troops or hit hard in case of EChampion.

 

Our two relics, one wants to enable to stay in buff aura post long charges, and the other wants you within 6”. Abhor is witch denial, meaning you want to be within 24” or more accurately a unit to deny buff powers which requires you to be close. Relatively speaking.

 

Suffer and Uphold are both fight phase only Strategems. All together a list designed to be Templars and utilize the chapters aspects in its entirety will be heavily focused melee oriented build. Sense it will be designed to use the chapter rules it will need to be.

 

Finally number 3) “Your” List. Everyone knows the your dudes concept. This is that concept but approached with list building lens. A flavorful list is a list YOU designed. A list where you made the time to practice, refine and create it. Every game is part of YOUR Dude’s story. Anyone can copy and paste a netlist, scratch over the chapter name and put a new chapter keyword in.

 

Which isn’t to say a netlisting frater doesn’t have a “their list”, in some ways that just part of the story of YOUR Dude. I for example upon release fully embraced the Primaris Units unlike a lot of my brother Templars. Why?

 

For one they filled a critical niche my preferred builds lacked due to my methods of listbuilding. I found FauxDevie Crusaders to be too fragile, to support my Crusaders mid. But I found I couldn’t afford nor really maneuver another couple tide squads. Intercessor filled that role and due to my stance on Scouts/Assault, I had Infilitrators/Reivars fill a niche my army required.

 

This wasn’t just me deciding a unit like covert ops atheistically very anti Templar, was gonna be included in my list. This was me after trial and year, in some sense, when I started playing 40k were Units I tactically wanted to include in my list. Back in 4th Ed I often included two infiltratoring Sword Brothern Squads for similar reasons.

 

Taking a netlist is a beginning to making a “Your” List. As netlists are like the Codex Astartes, a compilation of prior experiences from previous Astartes commanders. A but a good commander knows, that his situation and needs are different and must utilize what they have available to him. Which returns me to rule 1&2.

 

A flavorful list is a list to be “YOUR” List. But it’s a list written based on your life experience, your situation and your needs. But as you write it, it’s also just as important to remember why your CHAPTER is YOUR chapter both in flavor and how the mechanics of your chapter make it different from the chapter of your best friend Joe.

 

To me? That what makes a list flavorful or not.

[Jacques Corbin]

Ugh, I hate netlisting. Especially when it is a newb, who shows up with unpainted, half put together, models. It really irks me. This person is not after a fun game for all players, they want to crush their opponent from the start, and that has no place in casual play.

 

Now, the other side of the coin, is when both players agree to netlist, in a sort of fantasy match up, comparing strong lists from different events, or 2 lists from the same event that never faced off. That is fun.

 

But mostly, I send netlisters on their trolly way. Do not netlist if you are just getting started! Start small, and figure out what works for you through trial and error. Unless it is a witch, then it is trial and burning, or just burning if you are in a rush.

 

Also, because I have not said it in awhile :cuss the :cuss-ing Tau!!!

[War Angel]

Ugh, I hate netlisting. Especially when it is a newb, who shows up with unpainted, half put together, models. It really irks me. This person is not after a fun game for all players, they want to crush their opponent from the start, and that has no place in casual play.

Now, the other side of the coin, is when both players agree to netlist, in a sort of fantasy match up, comparing strong lists from different events, or 2 lists from the same event that never faced off. That is fun.

But mostly, I send netlisters on their trolly way. Do not netlist if you are just getting started! Start small, and figure out what works for you through trial and error. Unless it is a witch, then it is trial and burning, or just burning if you are in a rush.

Also, because I have not said it in awhile :cuss the :cuss-ing Tau!!!

A little off topic here, but isn’t the burning part of the trial?