Kroot; My Experience

[Schlitzaf]

So, I have finished building (somewhat) my Kroot. Here are a few core things that stood out. My list was a narrative one so some aspects should be taken into account. I was running a single Inquistor, Ambull and some other characters (Ministorum Priest). But mostly it was Kroot the Army.

 

Here what I ran (1000)

-1 Greater Knarloc, Twin Krootgun

-1 Squad of Knarloc Riders*

-2 3 Man Squads of Krootox

-4 10 Man Carnivores

-2 7 Man Hounds

-Grekh

-2 Shapers

 

Non-Kroot

Inquistior w/ ForceAx, SBolter

Ministorum Priest (Count as Kroot)

Ambull

 

*1 Power = 20 Points

 

Now focusing on actual Kroot here what I learned;

1) Krootox are the best unit for Kroot. The rapid autocannons, on a durable mobile platform. Able to move and shoot. Espacially facing an army like GSC where T7 and below is common even on ‘heavy’ armor. They have the attack problem while benefiting from the “Kroot” Toughness. Both of these I’ll elaborate on later.

2) Knarloc Units are truly underwhelming. When I play 2000 points I’ll try them again and see if my opanion changes. As of now? They suffer from low attack, and low damage relative to point cost.

2a) Knarloc Riders espacially at what is rough 35 points a model, you get what are essentially 4 boltgun shots (2 at range and 2 in melee) and 2 Heavy Bolter in melee (which are better on charge). It does like an actual save, but only a T4 platform.

2b) Issue is first off is that you never want to take the Harness given it denies you autocannon shots. Likewise with the crossbow. So you have a 4 Autocannon. Compare for 40 points less you get 6 from a Krootox Squad with one less point of toughness, 3 more wounds. Knarloc does have one of the actual good melee given way it Pile in works. But only moves 7”. That said I do like the unit. Is quite solid. It just could use a bit more. Like say 2 more attacks.

3) Carnivores are Garbage. They die like Gaursdman, but are 20% more expensive lacking any reasonable buffs. Beside the Shaper. But for what they are? It could be worse. And they are actually reasonable good shooters. Given bolters everywhere. The scout move good for capping objectives.

4) Hounds are hit and mass. I would always take them. They are cheap, and only unit that doesn’t suffer attack problem. There issue is that they are fast. Which I’ll explain why bad in a second.

5) Shapers, lack scout moves, and trouble keeping up with hounds. Ironically best for buffing your autocannons. They don’t hit hard in melee either and only have a krootgun unless you want to flail with strength 3. But Liu reroll is nice with your autocannons.

6) Grekh; worth the 20 points every single time. If only for that conditional smite.

 

Now the attack problem: Kroot models are as a general rule cannot hit well. They have what feels like one or two attacks too few. Carnivores, Krootoxes and Greater Knarlocs are the most blatant in this regard. If Carnivores had two attacks a piece in melee they wouldn’t be the next best thing but would feel atleast acceptable. Krootoxes have only 2 attacks, it’s one of those things you just expect them espacially with there wound count have one or two more. Knarlocs are he worst here being are Carnifexes or Daemon Princes.

 

Now that said Fexes themselves only have 4 attacks but also 20 points cheaper, as well as being effectively 5 attacks. Through admittedly our mortal wound generation is better than fexes. Ultimately the worst offenders are the Carnivores and Cavalry Knarlocs. Whom both should put out more attacks.

 

The other thing about Kroot is the “Kroot Toughness”, is Kroot are randomly ‘durable’. Both our cavalry units (Krootoxes and Knarlocs) have 4 Wounds at 30-40 points. Compared to most units whom have 2 wounds at that range. Krootoxes are T5 for some reason. And compared to similar units the Greater Knarloc has a couple wounds more. While ultimately it should noted we have a save best describe as ‘what save’. It results in the army having good staying power. Shapers at 5 wounds are similar here. A lot of our units would benefit by essentially moving a wound to an attack. But the result is having a weirdly durable army.

 

Other Kroot Strengths And Weakness:

“Land Raider Or Knight? Enter the Scoop Phase”: We really cannot kill T8 and High Save Units. Our anti-tank is autocannon and our only good way to wound them is mortal wound Knarloc and Grekh. It’s an innate army weakness. But while I say “Enter Scoop Phase”, it’s in some ways a benefit. We lack good anti-heavy armor. We have a large amount of good anti-light armor. 18 + 4(X) Autocannon with reroll 1 to wound, where X is number of Greater you take. And even units like Rhinos, and Monsters w/ T7 while having 3+ or better save. Can be reasonably wounded. It’s a baked in weakness, and an actual in my opanion an acceptable trade off.

 

Mobile but Not Fast: The Army is very mobile. You have Kroot Scout move, several auto 6 advances. Easy reroll charge, and 7” move everywhere. The main thing is that none of your heavy are actually heavy. Giving an incredible freedom to move. You won’t get there fast per say you lack anything that moves quickly and can contribute. But there is never a reason a kroot list shouldn’t be moving. Which brings me to the final aspect.

 

Krootgun: Best aspect of the Kroot. It’s Rapid Fire not heavy, gives you a ton of mobility. It is by far the most useful and productive part of the army. It’s flexible and it’s platforms are not paper mache.

[Happy-inquisitor]

I have to say it sounds like you have had a lot more luck with your krootox than I have ever managed. Mine tend to die like flies, which makes me sad because I have 6 of them and I loved them in 6th/7th editions.

 

Kroot hounds on the other hand I have found to be consistently worth having in almost any list, admittedly I rarely play kill point heavy missions such as ITC.

[Marshlands]

I really like Kroot in a tau list, but by themselves they just don't have the killing power

 

I keep looking at krootox but with the current cost of a broadside they just perform the krootoxs role and more way better and with more durability

 

Carnivores and hounds I love, hounds are just cheap and surprising killy for what they are (against light infantry only). Honestly tell me i have an option that's 4 pts a model in a min unit of 4 and a movement of 12 and id take it regardless of the rest of the profile

 

Carnivores are underrated, can't build an army out of them but they can do good damage against t3 without much support and with mobility.

 

Compare them to a buffed unit of 40 cultists and they're terrible, but compared to a genuine chaff unit like 10 cultists without buffs and they're way better. I've found them fantastic against scouting nurglings for example, they can run forward rapid fire and charge turn 1 all wounding on 2s, dealing with an annoying unit without drawing in your big guns that nurglings are designed to waste

[Panzer]

I'd love to get my hands on some Krootox but I just can't justify the price and it being a metal model still. Also I don't expect that they would survive even one turn. They are pretty squishy for the gun they carry plus they look they could actually do some damage in melee unlike the rest of a T'au list even if it's not exactly true. Two reasons to shoot at them, nothing to help them survive.

[Panzer]

Carnivores are underrated, can't build an army out of them but they can do good damage against t3 without much support and with mobility.

 

Compare them to a buffed unit of 40 cultists and they're terrible, but compared to a genuine chaff unit like 10 cultists without buffs and they're way better. I've found them fantastic against scouting nurglings for example, they can run forward rapid fire and charge turn 1 all wounding on 2s, dealing with an annoying unit without drawing in your big guns that nurglings are designed to waste

That's the main problem though. Kroot get basically zero support from the rest of the Codex while Cultists, Guardsmen and so on benefit from lots of Stratagems, subfaction rules and so on. That and of course that a min sized unit is more expensive than a min sized Firewarrior unit so they don't even serve as a way to get cheap CP (though that's only an issue in a mixed list).

[Schlitzaf]

I'd love to get my hands on some Krootox but I just can't justify the price and it being a metal model still. Also I don't expect that they would survive even one turn. They are pretty squishy for the gun they carry plus they look they could actually do some damage in melee unlike the rest of a T'au list even if it's not exactly true. Two reasons to shoot at them, nothing to help them survive.

They are finecast for the record

[Panzer]

 

I'd love to get my hands on some Krootox but I just can't justify the price and it being a metal model still. Also I don't expect that they would survive even one turn. They are pretty squishy for the gun they carry plus they look they could actually do some damage in melee unlike the rest of a T'au list even if it's not exactly true. Two reasons to shoot at them, nothing to help them survive.

They are finecast for the record

 

 

Alright then they are slightly better. Not by a whole lot though. :D

[Schlitzaf]

 

 

 

I'd love to get my hands on some Krootox but I just can't justify the price and it being a metal model still. Also I don't expect that they would survive even one turn. They are pretty squishy for the gun they carry plus they look they could actually do some damage in melee unlike the rest of a T'au list even if it's not exactly true. Two reasons to shoot at them, nothing to help them survive.

They are finecast for the record

Alright then they are slightly better. Not by a whole lot though. :D

Fair enough; any case main point about the Krootox is for 34/102 points you get what is roughly 2/6 Autocannon shots that can move and shoot. At T5 makes them durable vs most small arms fire, and 4W means with only 6+ you need a lot of shots to kill them. (For those curious, 27 Bolters shot by a Marine Squad, and 36 Lasgun shots shot by a Gaurdsman Squad).

 

Once they start taking anti-tank they die like no ones business which in MonoKroot given you only have 3 “heavy” teir Units (Krootox, Knarloc Riders And Greater Knarlocs). But atleast sense most anti-tank is 3 damage or averages 3.5 you’ll end up eating 2-3 of Anti-Tank shots. Which is a nice thing.

 

The main things through; I have not experienced yet is that 6++ FNP granted by Ethreals will help the Carnivores. Through it’s something you Honeslty wish could benefit the Krootox and Knarlocs.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

I'd love to get my hands on some Krootox but I just can't justify the price and it being a metal model still. Also I don't expect that they would survive even one turn. They are pretty squishy for the gun they carry plus they look they could actually do some damage in melee unlike the rest of a T'au list even if it's not exactly true. Two reasons to shoot at them, nothing to help them survive.

They are finecast for the record

Alright then they are slightly better. Not by a whole lot though.

Fair enough; any case main point about the Krootox is for 34/102 points you get what is roughly 2/6 Autocannon shots that can move and shoot. At T5 makes them durable vs most small arms fire, and 4W means with only 6+ you need a lot of shots to kill them. (For those curious, 27 Bolters shot by a Marine Squad, and 36 Lasgun shots shot by a Gaurdsman Squad).

 

Once they start taking anti-tank they die like no ones business which in MonoKroot given you only have 3 “heavy” teir Units (Krootox, Knarloc Riders And Greater Knarlocs). But atleast sense most anti-tank is 3 damage or averages 3.5 you’ll end up eating 2-3 of Anti-Tank shots. Which is a nice thing.

 

The main things through; I have not experienced yet is that 6++ FNP granted by Ethreals will help the Carnivores. Through it’s something you Honeslty wish could benefit the Krootox and Knarlocs.

 

 

You wouldn't shoot with Bolters or Lasguns at a T5 unit though. Those are better used against regular Kroot and Kroothounds. You'd rather shoot with something with S5-7 at it and against those they melt quickly since such weapons usually either have multi-damage or high ROF. Heck even Plasma would be a good use gainst them considering there's not much else in a Kroot list to shoot at with it and when overcharging it does on average the exact same amount of damage as Autocannons against Krootox.

 

I've used the 6+++ and as always it's too unreliable to be of real use. Per 10 incoming wounds you on average only get 1.5 6s and at that point your Kroot will most likely just run away in the morale phase anyway. Any of the other 3 Ethereal buffs make more sense. -1 for Morale tests is basically the same as trying to roll 6+++ for a unit of 10 but much more reliable so you can be sure to benefit from it even if the opponent kills only 3 or 4 Kroot in a unit, re-rolling charges is good to get on objectives early on and re-rolling 1s to hit when stationary basically replaces the need for Markerlights in a Kroot army.

I stand firm with my opinion that a 6+ save of any kind isn't worth even a single point. A 5+++ is worlds better.

[Schlitzaf]

I mean a 6+++ save for models with a 6+ saves turns a 6+ into a 5+ (ie take 18 Wounds, 6+ save 3 of them, then 6+++ saves another 2.5. Makes it almost same as having a 5+).

 

Also in PureKroot, enemy anti-tank is divided between Knarloc (Greater and Normal), as well as your Krootoxes. My 2k list I plan to eventually actually play is something like

 

Kroot Brigade

HQ

Aun’shi

Ethereal Hover (Warlord: Gunship)

Darkstrider

 

Elite

3x Shaper

3x Krootoxes (3 Man)

1x Firesight Marksman (Tau)

Grekh

 

Troops

7x Kroot Carnivores (10 Man)

 

Fast

2x Knarloc Riders (3 Man)

1x Knarloc Rider (6 Man)

2x Kroot Hounds (9 Man)

 

Heavy

2x Greater Knarloc, TwinKroot

1x Heavy Gun Drone, 3 Man, Mark&Burst (Tau)

1x Sniper Drone, 4 Man (Tau)

 

2x Auxillary Detachment

Elite

2x Ambull

 

It’s not really pure Kroot but it’s I think a pretty close reasonably (Knarlocs pointed as 20points equal 1 power). But more in point, in a pure kroot list due to limited range, the enemy will have a lot of viable targets to use their anti-tank against. Knarloc Riders also have T4 and 4W.

 

And I prefer 6+++ considering that units want to benefit from it for reroll 1, (Krootoxes, Knarlocs (Both) are neither Infantry or battle suite. And I dunno Morale wise? I am not running a carnivore squad at larger than minimum. At which points an Ethreal LD9 should protect me more than any -1 to test.

[Panzer]

If you prefer the 6+++ then that's your decision. I just gave my opinion on it and that is that it's pretty much useless due how unreliable it is. Also the -1 to morale tests isn't instead of the LD9. You obviously get both.

[Schlitzaf]

If you prefer the 6+++ then that's your decision. I just gave my opinion on it and that is that it's pretty much useless due how unreliable it is. Also the -1 to morale tests isn't instead of the LD9. You obviously get both.

And I appreciate it. Just explaining why I prefer 6+++ opanion might change through once I actually finish my kroot for 2k