1 Year 8th Edition Anniversary of Deathwatch Codex

[Qui-Gon]

Hello folks,

 

So it's been a year of the Deathwatch Codex having been in our hands, further empowering us to be able to smite the xenos.

 

I must say, I have been extremely happy with the state of the Codex, and with the changes that have trickled down to impact us from the core rules as well as the updates in the FAQs. The army never felt alive in the Index, but with the Codex, it is as good as I felt in 7E.

 

I wanna open this thread to the general conversation of things that we like about the Codex, what we dislike about it, awesome gaming moments, victories, defeats, pics, whatever. Let us celebrate the 1 year anniversary of our Codex in style.

 

I'm planning to do a 1 year retrospective of the Codex in a podcast style review. If anyone wants to participate, let me know.

[Prot]

Great thread. I want to do a bit more in depth on my blog, but If I were to give my personal experience, and perspective:

 

+ One of my favourite things is the ability to play an army that truly feels elite, and allows me to play 'marines' that feel competent. I play a lot of armies. The only thing that comes close is Indomnitus Crusaders for Ultramarines.

 

+ I felt Beta Bolters was too much for Deathwatch. That being said post FAQ it feels like this army is perhaps destined to be really fun but (as others have said) a "gate keeper" army. 

 

+ I've never been a big soup player, but as I write this I feel like Deathwatch have made a long cycle of: Not many played them (index), then very competitive (Beta Bolters), and back to 'a good ally'.

 

+ Going waaaay back: I, like so many others, was so happy to see the original codex! (I still have the beautiful Black Fortress Edition. Perhaps one of the best special edition release from GW to date!). Back at that time I watched a lot of hyper competitive players declare the Frag Cannon as a game changing weapon. Then reality set in with the cost, and then as a result the Deathwatch forum was extremely quiet. Fast forward to Beta Bolters and we got a lot busier again. 

 

+ Kill Team opened up another dimension to playing the army. Man I really enjoyed using them in Kill Team. Small, but tons of punch. (Locally we kind of drifted away from Kill Team as it expanded to characters/elites). Great fun though. And a great introduction to Deathwatch.

 

+ I never had the confidence in the army to take them into a tournament. Since I really don't soup it always seem to fall short on Knights/Astra, etc. I do plan on it though.

 

+ Background wise I'm really happy Black Library put out a sequel to the Deathwatch novel. : Shadowbreaker

 

+ I remember how excited I as the Chapter Approved changes changed everything. Finally marines (Vets specifically) became truly survivable against some of the most heinous threats around. I did up a bat rep with pictures as soon as we got leaks. It was against Tau and I quickly came to believe it was the Stormshields that would change everything for me:

 

https://prot40k.blog/2018/12/18/a-post-chapter-approved-2-deathwatch-battle-report-vs-tau-2000-pts/

 

+ So that's a bit of history, a bit of gaming, and a bit of fiction. Finally I'd add in that I finally got my hands on some limited release figures that fit in fantastically with Deathwatch and I was very happy to get them in the army:

[Lifeafter]

I love it! This codex got me back into the game. I made my Deathwatch army 10+ years ago, when the only thing I had to go off of was a 3rd edition, b&w pdf. 4th edition Sternguard with their special issue ammunition was as close as I could get to what we have now. I wish vets could take multi-meltas.  

 

I just hate xenos...I hate them so much...

 

*edit, had to add in how much I hate aliens.

[HighMarshalAmp]

 

*edit, had to add in how much I hate aliens.

Yeah, the Marines were a bit goofy, but it ain't like 3 or Resurrection were any better 

 

More on topic, it's a potent Marine Codex (for what that's worth) that actually gives Oldmarines a chance!

Even better, all the models you have left over from other projects can just be thrown together into a Kill Team and suddenly, they're a threat!

And I like that about it.

[SwashBuccaneer]

I have mixed feelings on the book. Last April I had just gotten into the tabletop via Dark Imperium box set and was working my way through the Death Guard models when the book dropped. I was familiar enough with the lore and universe that I couldn't wait to get my hands on it and make an army.

 

I shelved the DG guys and spent the next year building up my collection and having fun painting them. Not having much luck with the lists I've tried but want to make them work without souping so right now I'm just frustrated with them.

 

It's almost ironic that a force supposedly very elite and with access to top of the line equipment has a book that is so limited compared to other chapters. I really wish we had access to some other units available to other chapters and higher threat saturation without having to turn to Forgeworld or soup.

 

But all of this is just from a newbie who can't build a list worth a damn or play the game. :P

[Azaiel]

The Deathwatch was my return to 40k since 3rd edition. I am foremost a painter/converter but I still want to win sometimes.

 

DW ticks all the boxes I have for a 40k army hobbywise:

* Space marines

* Black armor

* Take all the cool bits from various chapters and make your own vets

 

Before the codex the army was pretty limited and it got way better after the codex dropped. The teleportarium strat and mission tactics made DW more competitive.

 

What is making me apprehensive is the major changes that comes in FAQ:s and Chapter approved. Especially for our Vet squads. In one year we went from Vets using bolters + CC (before codex) too Stormbolters + Stormshields. Im afraid that in the next CA our stormshields will go up in price. The Beta Bolter nerf was invevitable since it made our regular troops so much better than all the other marines.

 

Meanwhile our signature weapons havent got any points drop(?), Infernus is still crap and how many shotguns do you use? The Corvus is cool but needs more work.

[spacewatch]

I started 40k soon after DW got 7th ed. codex. I didn't know anything about the 40k, Space Marines or Deathwatch before. I selected Deathwatch just because I liked the lore and models looked cool (black and silver). I didn't play many games during the 7th ed. so the only tactical element I was able to figure out back then was how bad Deathwatch was against armoured vehicles (more of this later).

 

When 8ed came I started to take very accurate notes, ask help in this forum and then analyze and mathhammer everything based on what I was adviced. It did't take long to realize how versatile our Kill-Teams are and how well SIA works against basicly everything but vehicles. I just love SIA. I also really really love the concept of Kill-Team both as a lore and game rules it gives us. Kill-Teams really are the very core and eliteness of the Deathwatch. Two Terminators, Vanguard and 3-4 Storm Shield Veterans combined with 4-3 Veterans having SB, Combi-Plasma, Combi-Melta or Frag Cannons depending on your overall plan and you're ready to rock. Yes, there are other Kill-Team roles than just SB+SS Veterans. I also love how our strategems (doctrines, teleportarium) further empower the usefullnes of the SIA and Kill-Teams. I also like how Primaris Marines in Deathwatch can form Kill-Teams even though I rarely take my Primaris Hellblaster Fortis Team into play.

 

What I don't like and would like to see changed is our iconic weapons and units. I favour Frag Cannons over Combi-Plasma knowing that Frags are not the most optimal weapon choise. While Frags are ok (just IMO) Deathwatch Shotguns, HTH and Corvus Blackstar are not ok. Shotguns should be free of charge because when you choose Shotgun you in practice choose role for your unit and not better weapon effectiveness. HTH should be 3+D3 or 2D3 or something else that prevents rolling 1 as damage. Corvus should have PotMS which would make it somewhat usable as a gunship or otherwise it should have more wounds which would make it more durable as a transport. 

 

Finally back to the AT. My son plays Astra Militarum army so I could easily bring two tank commanders and cheap troops as an ally but I don't. Why? Because I really don't understand why elite of the elite that has tools to slaughter or vaporize almost everything imaginable cannot handle simple plates of steel. So whoever mechanic was responsible storing our Dread's multi-meltas during 7th ed. please reveal yourself immediately, you will not be punished but we really need those meltas right now. Meanwhile I keep my two Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts well maintained and ready for next mission.

 

'Do not ask, "Why kill the alien?"

Rather, ask, "Why not?"'

- Watch Captain Artemis 

[Black Knight]

PROT! Do not show me photos like that... I feel small already!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t play them anyomore but they were a lot of fun. I play soup but always found my armies with them to be a gatekeeper. It is a very well designed codex.

[Trollbeard]

Sorry, what does gatekeeper mean??

[Kallas]

Sorry, what does gatekeeper mean??

 

Generally means that the army hurts a number of other army builds by being extremely effective against them, making them less viable in the wider meta - generally to do with tournaments.

 

I, however, do not agree that Deathwatch, in their current state, act as a Gatekeeper army. Soup in general does; and pre-nerf the Castellan certainly did; but Deathwatch as they stand are elite enough for even hordes (their main prey) to have value against them. They have some strong options, but are too expensive as a mono-Codex army to be enough of a Gatekeeper.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I take gatekeeper to mean there’s a good chance you’ll face this faction on top tables at a tournament.

[Lemondish]

This codex had me for a long time, but the lack of legitimate wargear choices for units leading to extremely limited tactical options soon became boring. Thanks to the Kill Team game I still get to make use of my DW models, but this codex quickly turned into a dud for me.

[GrinNfool]

Depends how you look at the codex as to how I would rate it.  Loved it in 7th DW were a fantastic drop pod army but very pricey so alpha strike dependent.  I felt they got the feel of how DW should be correct.  8th in general is a bit of a mixed bag for DW.  If taken as a pure codex army I feel the army is pretty mediocre to poor honestly, with only a few armies performing worse as a mono dex.  Souping them with other imperial armies though tends to be good.  They offer a nice flexible anti-infantry/monster tool kit, and can allow you to kit them to focus on survival or damage or a mix depending how much you want to spend.  It also tends to be the best way to get to use the fun stuff in the codex without suffering hugely on CP.  Best thing in the codex is frag cannons, not even close to me.  Ya ya SB/SS is good, but frags are just sooo dang fun.

 

Things I would like to see improve would specifically be the infernus, I WANT to love the weapon its so neat of a concept, but its just not competitively priced for what it does, partly the fault of the guns its based on cost, and partly the fault of the frag (which is reasonably priced)  If they changed the hvy bolter profile to assault like in 7th that might be enough, but that probably wont happen.  Hvy thunder hammer should probably come down in cost by about 10 points, love the weapon,  but it isn't twice as good as a normal T. Hammer, it only averages .5 more damage with the .17-.33% (with strat) chance to do flat 6, but you lose the storm shield option which is a big thing.  Think it needs to be about 20 points, or 22 and not be unwieldy, since you forgo anything else with it.

 

Lets see favorite moments using them from games.... most of them involve frag cannons or heavy thunder hammers (as terrible a weapon as it is its a blast to use).  With frags:

 

Had a guy kill 4 of my 5 man kill team leaving 1 alive with a frag, only had a few big weapons left decided it wasn't worth shooting him.  So he passes morale proceeds to walk over and kill a 5 man tac squad with las cannon.  Opponent, "Hmm guess I should have finished him oh well"  Next opponents turn devotes 3 bikers of shots into him, and he tanks them like a champ, i've tied up most things again other than a few hvy platforms.  He says no way I am gonna let him live again, and shoots a TLC at him, 1 shot misses 1 fails to wound him.  My turn he proceeds to walk over to the biker squad and kill them, (hero of the imperium right there)  my opponent and I are laughing at this point at this 1 guy who is just walking around the battlefield vaping squads, was great.

 

Frag story 2: Similar situation kill team has been shot down to 1 guy who has a frag, this 1 is vs my wife though.  She doesn't want to leave the guy alive (she knows better) but she is out of shooting.  She has a 4 man crusader squad a 4 dominon squad and 4 death cult assassins in range to charge him.  She charges the crusders first since the invulns wll likely make it she says.  I roll 11 hits and shred the crusaders,  Annoyed but unsure what to do she says ok well I'll charge the death cults, they die, now she is irate about this 1 guy and charges the dominions, also die.  My wife hates my DW now, and specifically hates that 1 model whose squad is now obliterated 1st thing every game since lol.

 

Hvy Thammer:

Combat squadded out 2 VVs with them with a few bikers, Eventually they found their way to friend's castellan that was down to 15 wounds, and charge.  He kills the bikers on the charge, but the VVs make it, get 3 hits, 3 wounds, 1 of them is a 6.  He fails the save for all 3 so instantly down to 9.  He tells me I better not kill it, just roll average he says.  I roll exactly 9.  The castellan then explodes killing the 2 VVs, went out in a blaze of glory.

 

Same set up as before vs nids,  Got them in on a carnifex and kill it with no problem  Opponent charges them with another carni, kills 2 bikes the hvy thammers kill the 2nd carni, on his turn.  They then manage to get 11" away from the swarmlord, and I say what the heck lets charge,   Opponent laughs saying if you fail this I am going to charge you anyways next turn.  Make it with a 12, opponent laughs and says its fine swarmlord will take them out.  I pop strategem for +1 wound, and get 4 hits on the swarmlord, opponent now slightly more worried.  I get 3 5+s and 1 normal wound, opponent laughs nervously, "I get my 3++ right?"  Takes the normal damage first and blocks it, then decides for dramatic effect to roll them 1 at a time.  Rolls the first, fails, so down to 6 health now.  ":cuss... ok still got 2" , Rolls the 2nd and makes it, fist pumps at this.  Rolls the 3rd... and fails swarmlord dies.  I swear to god the guy does the infamous added in darth vader NOOOO yell.  3++ is great except when it isnt lol.

[Trollbeard]

I love my DW, I started them in 7th and found them to be woefully underpowered, and had shelved them until the codex came out, and what a change it was!

 

I love being able to kit out each squad for a specific purpose, Stormshields on lots of dudes, along with some termies and a VV make for an awesome squad composition.

 

To me they feel like a scalpel army, it’s all about applying pressure to specific threats at specific times to do the most damage you can and cripple portions of the enemies force.

 

All my friends HATE SIA, which makes me love it all the more! Being able to choose what you need when you need it is awesome, though I’ll admit it’s mostly hellfire rounds lol.

 

All in all I was super happy with the codex! Even with our somewhat limited choices!

 

I also play GK(sad face) and nurgke demons, do having a shooting based army is a breath of fresh air for me!

[Lemondish]

I love being able to kit out each squad for a specific purpose, Stormshields on lots of dudes, along with some termies and a VV make for an awesome squad composition.

The problem I have is that it's really the only viable squad composition.