choppyred Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 This question has been on my mind for a while now. If the great crusade had gone as planned what would the Emperor do about the Mechanicum? The treaty of Mars seems to be all about pragmatism and expediency on the part of the Emperor something of a necessary evil to get the materiel needed for his Great Crusade without crippling his nascent armed forces and wasting valuable time in a war with Mars. However at the end of the great crusade would that still be the case ? Would he let the treaty of Mars stand allowing the Mechanicum to keep their religion (which seems to contradict the Imperial truth) and semi independence within the Imperium, or would the legions have been unleashed on Mars and it's stellar empire of forgeworlds to take back technology and it's means of production. I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) that it has been at least implied that had the webway project been a success then the Navigators would have been eliminated. So did the Emperor have a similar plan for the Mechanicum and if so what would it have looked like in it's execution? If this has been explicitly stated anywhere could someone please point me in the right direction if not informed speculation will do nicely Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarabando Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 i dont think a war with them would have been his plan out of all the groups in the universe at that time realisticly they are the only ones capable of fighting him to a standstill. I think Lorgar would have been in his element converting forgeworld after forgeworld into the truth the rapid techniclogical advances on these worlds no unhindered by superstition would have outstripped mars pretty fast IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I think, and I'm still early in the books, so may be very wrong, that his next phase was to do something with the Webway and 'awaken' humanity to the warp and its denizens in some form of controlled manner, so the dichotomy between the 'truth' and the 'imperial truth' may not have been such an issue? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinespider Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 All-out war would never have worked - as humanity expanded outward, the Imperium only ever became more dependent on the Mechanicum for supplies and materiel, not less. I have to assume he had some kind of long-term plan to slowly integrate them into his vision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Perturabo in his primarch novel had an ordo chronos adept furnish him with schematics based on just the science, though only problem was the mechanicus symbol on the pages, otherwise he considered them perfect. They are capable of going straight science but you have to really twist their arm to do it. I think the Emperor wanted to bring them back to proper science and invention over time. I could see Ferrus, Vulkan etc having the same attitudes to tech in the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Once a successful webway had been setup, I can see the need for the Mechanicus certainly diminishing. Much less need for spacecraft, less weaponry as the crusade ends. I could see a bloody engagement happening, or I could see them being steered toward The Emperor's will. Given they revered him as The Omnissiah, I could honestly see it going down either way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Once a successful webway had been setup, I can see the need for the Mechanicus certainly diminishing. Much less need for spacecraft, less weaponry as the crusade ends. I could see a bloody engagement happening, or I could see them being steered toward The Emperor's will. Given they revered him as The Omnissiah, I could honestly see it going down either way. The Imperium is much like the Roman empire, a stagnant empire is a dead empire. Mechanicus would still be very much relevant even if the Imperials tapped into the web way successfully. There will always be a new enemy over the horizon and within due to the Imperium's size. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Either he would of allowed his legions to grow to such a degree that he could destroy the Admech swiftly with the Webway(How do you defend from 100,000 spawning in the back of your base?) or he would of slowly integrated the Imperial Truth more and more into Admech society. He also had the option of slowly removing the most devote of their followers(Assassins) and replacing them with priests like Cawl. Remember he had to get rid of the Space Marines too and he wasn't going to be able to do it like the thunder warriors so maybe he was saving them for that final war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Nothing, he's the omnissiah after all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The God Empress Of Mankind Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 To Purge them eventually, hence why I find the theory of wiping out the marines stupid the crusade would have never ended with the conquest of the milky way, but thats another topic.I think allot of the mechanicum would have sided with the emperor & accepted his new direction for use of technology, remember to him he is the machine god. Many would not and a civil war with the Imperium on the side of 1 faction of the mechanicum would prevail. Not all tech priests and adepts were backwards, remember the girl from mechanicum and of course Arkan Land there are plenty of adepts who would grab the freedom the Emperor would give them with open hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I'm not sure. The Emperor intended to conquer the galaxy. With all the encroaching threats the unforeseeable future may hold (the Tyranids for a start and how many other "unknown" races are yet to be a threat in the far future) it doesn't make sense to demilitarize your strongest asset. Scale down or impose a limit per legion however, most definitely! yet only enforce this when the galaxy is secure (if such a thing is even possible) or re introduce a reintegration program for astartees, allowing them to potentially have some form of retirement. In terms of the mechanicus however, they have always been a "We do as you ask but not as you command" sort of establishment. Ironically a very archaic form of establishment for those who work towards technological excellence. They have also always been a sort of Red Elephant in the room in terms of identity. Are they apart of the Imperium or not? Would they support the Imperium in a time of crisis or exploit them? It's really hard to get any sort of bearing on them. I'd imagine ambiguity around potentially the 2nd most powerful faction in the imperium would lend weight to "annihilate the threat" scenario. But what if they could be proven worthy and loyal, would they still be wiped out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 To the last part, it seems to depend on who you ask in the Mechanicum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 The Emperor does come off as discarding things that have become useless to him sometimes, but I'm curious about how much of it is "you have outlived your usefulness" and how much is "you've gone from an asset to a liability."The nuance is subtle, but it amounts to whether you get rid of someone because you don't need them anymore or because they've gone on to do more harm than good—when they've not become an actual threat.Incidentally, for all the things the Emperor was a hypocrite about, self-sacrifice doesn't seem to be one of them and as such, I wonder if he'd actually have bowed out and let the curtain fall if he had indeed managed to safeguard humanity from all foreseeable threats.Focusing on the Mechanicum, I've gathered that there was more evidence in favor of the Emperor getting entirely blindsided by the Heresy (or at least by its scale and/or who turned out to rebel) than seeing it coming. Meanwhile, bits and bobs I've read on this forum point towards preparing himself for a war against the Mechanicum while they themselves carefully planned for a future optimal for them; for them alone, if necessary.If this information checks out, without the Horus Heresy, civil war between the Imperium and the Mechanicum wasn't a matter of if but a matter of when. With the sole variable being who fires the first shot.As the God Empress of Mankind points out, it wouldn't be "everyone in the Imperium" against "everyone in the Mechanicum." Some of the latter would side with the Emperor, some of the former would side with Mars—or more probably, against the Emperor.Regardless of whether "what's left of the Mechanicum" is actually all of them because several miracles happened and there was no war or not, it's possible he might have had to enforce his own 'Codex Mechanicus.' Shielding mankind from Chaos is useless if the Half-Men of Iron wipe it out anyway, and the one core principle of Guilliman's Codex Astartes that was NOT negotiable was making sure no one could wield enough power to threaten humanity's existence ever again.A Fabricator-General sounds like someone who could be such a threat. He wouldn't even need to take up arms, all it'd take is making sure everyone else wouldn't be able to. He's literally in charge of all the equipment in the Imperium, and "High Lords of Mars" has such a nice ring to it...I'm not up to date with the human council established by the Emperor before the Horus Heresy but if they're anything like their successors, there are several counter-powers at work, even if they're fueled by each High Lord's personal interests. I'm not so sure about the highest echelon of the Mechanicum.If he intended or expected to be out of the picture when a new existential threat appears—something I'm not sure can be verified—I can only guess he assumed the various leaderships of humanity would unite against it and go back to bickering among themselves once mankind's survival was secured once more.I've been told the War of the Beast didn't quite work out that way, but hindsight is 20/20. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I think it all boils down to mutual need. The mechanicus need the manpower of the imperium as much as the imperium need the weapons they supply them with. Mutual benefit will always overshadow potential threats or even coo's. If mars going renegade in the biggest imperial civil war didn't guarantee their demise not much (if anything ever) will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 New lore direction of Emperor planning do ditch Astartes and Ad Mech like the thunder warriors is garbage and a dumpster fire. I hate BL is doing this. idiots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5314985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 They aren’t doing that. That’s never been confirmed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5315229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 True enough. There are suspicions, but even then such changes would run over centuries or longer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5315250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhar'Neth Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 I think that the Question is what Emperor intended for Void Dragon. Maybe that determined what would happen to Mechanicum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5315441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Tech Support Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355980-what-did-the-emperor-intend-for-the-mechanicum/#findComment-5315715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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