Recovery of Progenoid Organs?

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

I thought they could remove both, as long as they were replaced with fresh, un-matured ones? Or do they need at least one mature one for genetic stability? 

 

This is actually brought into question in the book "Wolf of Fenris" when a Silver Skull has both his Progenoids harvested by the ex-Astral Claws Corpse-Taker in chief (name escapes me apologies) and he is returned to his chapter.  There is some stigma attached, as although he is declared fit for duty, the Apothecarion are worried about him for stability reasons and his brothers see him as a lesser individual for not having any of the glands.  It was a full brother, so both glands would have reached maturity.

 

I admit it's an author's take and milage on it may vary, but it's an interesting snippet.

 

MR.

 

 

Yeah, that sounds... not quite right. There's a reason the Astral Claws Apothecaries were called Corpse-Takers, after all.

[Mazer Rackham]

I agree, but like I said, author's own plot device, IIRC the Marine in question was liberated during an attack by the Silver Skulls force, before corpsification, but forget about that, think of the possibilities - here, please consider filling in this form...our associate Fabulous Bill drew up?  What's that you say?  No, no relation to any Heretics you have heard of.

 

Just sign here.  You only need the one Progenoid anyway right?  

 

MR.

[Knight of the Raven]

A space marine who's not being trained as a future apothecary probably can't recover a fallen brother's progenoid glands, no. He can try, but it'll be an absolute fluke if he succeeds in extracting them without damaging them.

The glands are already extremely fragile on their own and become only more so when you factor in the tools used to recover them properly. A combat knife of all things will have a hard time leaving them intact in the hands of trained personnel; a space marine uninitiated to his own biology will assuredly savage them.

Even a skilled apothecary can mess up recovering the glands and shear them in half by mistake. All it takes is enough distraction. It's apparently a severe enough mistake to be revoked from the rank even if you're the only apothecary in an active campaign.

 

The progenoids are also fragile in the sense that they need specific equipment just to keep them safe and healthy until they can be restored to the chapter's vaults.

There's also more to recovering the progenoid glands than keeping the chapter alive and safeguarding the legacy of each brother. Chaos getting their hands on them means more chaos space marines, as well as more defilers if the lore from their introduction into the game is still valid. When it's not simply, crudely used as a very valuable currency.

 

edit: removed unnecessary spoilers.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The way I see it, the progenoids probably aren't any different from any other organ in terms of removal. Any schmoe with a knife can remove an organ, but to have it undamaged, and still viable for implantation? That takes training, and a steady hand. Could a random battle brother remove the progenoids? Sure. Could he remove them without damaging them? Less likely.

[The Unseen]

I figure most marines are at least familiar enough with their own biology for first aid purposes, and handy enough with a knife, that they could do it if need be.

Removing an organ isn't actually that hard if you have the time, and don't care about what happens to the surrounding tissue.

Doing it without making a mess of a living patient is an entirely different matter.

But a corpse doesn't flinch, or need it's tissues intact. If your in a hurry though, cutting through an Astartes ribcage is probably going to be quite... messy. I don't see someone without a reductor pulling of a successful progenoid removal under fire, too many things to go wrong.

 

But, 9 times out of 10, why not just carry your brothers body out?

It's safer inside his body under his armor than it is being carried around exposed to the air without the supervision of an apothecary and his specialist equipment, like portable stasis equipment.

Get his body to your ships apothecary station/medbay, and let the trained people deal with it.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

To be honest I'm sure it's something that could be made into Cannon. Marines given training to at least be able to identify where and what to cut out. Maybe its the Apothocaries who have the specialist knowledge to utilize and safely store the Geneseed but I'd also wager that it would be a very sensible venture for all marines to have basic training on how to remove an organ which may ensure the survival of their chapter.

[nooker]

Thanks all, this has been enlightening!  I think I can do what I want to do given what you have told me.  I am planning to run a tier 2 Wrath and Glory after school game/program at my son's school and he wants to play an SM Scout, but I'm hoping that he'll be the only one as I want a mixed bag of characters and hope for some girls to join.  The scenario starts out on a stricken Imperial spaceship (probably a Mars Class Battlecruiser) that they have to travel from the bow to the stern to escape.  Carrying the bodies of the rest of his squad through the catastrophically damaged ship isn't feasible, but trying your best to recover the glands and carry them with you, even if you ultimately fail, does make sense.  At least you tried to preserve the geneseed of your comrades.

[Cleon]

If he's a scout then might be better to simplify it so he only recovers the Sargent's glands as the other scouts ones won't be matured, would take him less time to extract and he could maybe start by trying to heft the body until it proves unfeasible.

[Mazer Rackham]

If he's a scout then might be better to simplify it so he only recovers the Sargent's glands as the other scouts ones won't be matured, would take him less time to extract and he could maybe start by trying to heft the body until it proves unfeasible.

 

That's a pretty solid idea.

 

If he can't get the Geneseed, perhaps he could recover something to remember the Sergeant by, his bolt pistol or weapons, (which are also valuable to the Chapter) or some kind of amulet/icon/honour badge bestowed upon him by the chapter master perhaps.

 

Good luck with your campaign nooker!

 

MR.

[nooker]

Excellent suggestions!

There's a good chance he'll be an Imperial Fist and they do that whole scrimshaw thing with the finger bones. I thought recovering one from each brother would be good too.  The other chapter he likes is Blood Angels, do they do anything like that?

[slitth]

I am pretty sure that the average Astartes training in Progenoid recovery is limited to this.

Are you a training and sanction Apothecary, then proceed with honour and caution.

If not, wait for a training and sanction Apothecary!

 

After all not only are we talking about insuring the chapters future.

But we are also talking about the death Astartes legacy.

 

Even if you somehow cut out the Progenoid without damaging it, how will you keep it safe and viable.

The Narthecium is not just a fancy knife. It has a cryo-receptacle for the Progenoid.

[Knight of the Raven]

Come to think of it, there are probably more instances in the lore of space marines holding the line against all odds until an apothecary or (more likely) an evacuation vehicle arrived on the scene than there are of cutting out the progenoids themselves.

 

nooker, If you can stomach Nick Kyme's addiction to apostrophes and his constant references to the Salamanders' lexical field in the narration, the Tome of Fire trilogy may have some answers. These novels feature both an apothecary and his trainee as secondary characters.

 

After all not only are we talking about insuring the chapters future.
But we are also talking about the death Astartes legacy.

Destroying a space marine's legacy in precisely that way is exactly what made an apothecary bluescreen in one novel.