Fallen and summoned daemons

[Darnok]

Using the new "Fallen Angels" specialist detachment, Fallen gain access to characters that can summon daemons. I would appreciate feedback on an idea of mine, or rather multiple ideas. Please let me know what you think of each of the following options, each meant to represent "summoned daemons" by using a certain set of models, painted in ethereal colours:

 

1. Spirits of Fallen

Using models of Space Marines in older armour types, and with iconography of the DA, these are the spirits of the Fallen that were killed in past battles. Rising once more to fight alongside their brethren - "Angles of Death" indeed!

With this method I could use a visual coherent set of models: the the living and the dead would use the same models, the "daemons" are just painted differently. I would also have no problem in explaining why these spirits would fight for the Fallen.

 

2. Ghosts of some enemies (Space Marines)

Similar to the first option in overall model use, this time I would use the iconography of any chapter/legion - the summoned spirits are those of adversary Astartes slain in the past.

This one would give me more freedom for models, and I could use bitz for BA, SW and whatnot. I would need a good reason why these ghosts would fight for the ones who have killed them though...

 

3. Ghosts of any enemy

Like the second option, just using any (roughly infantry sized) model.

This one offers the greatest freedom concerning models, and I could add new ghosts for every fight I "kill" something. Again, the biggest question to answer would be: why do these fight for the Fallen at all?

 

 

Which one of these would you prefer, and why? Also: would you have a problem with this, if it was used in a game against you?

Any feedback is appreciated, thanks in advance!

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Which of the 3 options is used is, for me, less of an issue than how the concept is implemented.  My concerns with implementation are:

 

1)  Can your opponent easily distinguish which models are daemons and which are not?  For example, painting them like AoS Nighthaunts (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/14/14th-may-faction-focus-nighthauntgw-homepage-post-3/) might help.

2)  If you are fielding more than one type of daemons, can you opponent easily distinguish which models are which type of daemons?  As well, does your reasoning for why any given unit is represented by the models you have chosen make sense?

3)  Do you have a good rationale for the above 2 choices, as well your decision to as for using "counts as" models for daemons?

 

My concern is that, to your opponents, your choice would come across as mere stinginess (or laziness) in using your existing marines instead of daemons.  Therefore, to be acceptable to opponents, I would think that your rationale for using non-daemon models would need to be compelling and would need to be implemented in a way that looked good and made sense.  After all, not everyone likes proxies and most people (I would think) would prefer not to play someone who essentially was saying "this group of orks are chaos space marines, and this group of orks are possesseds, and the eldar are all cultists except for these 2 who are a sorceror and Huron."  I'm not saying that's what you would be doing, but it may feel that way to an opponent.

 

Now, to return to your actual question, whether you should limit your daemon count-as to fallen Fallen or also include space marines and/or xenos, certainly the more limited you keep it the stronger your theme.  That said, the more narrow it is, the more difficult it might be to differentiate between different daemons.

[Darnok]

Which of the 3 options is used is, for me, less of an issue than how the concept is implemented.  My concerns with implementation are:

 

1)  Can your opponent easily distinguish which models are daemons and which are not?  For example, painting them like AoS Nighthaunts (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/14/14th-may-faction-focus-nighthauntgw-homepage-post-3/) might help.

See the OP, I will paint them to look like ethereal beings. See here for what I did for ghosts years ago (over a decade! ). Something like that.

 

2)  If you are fielding more than one type of daemons, can you opponent easily distinguish which models are which type of daemons?  As well, does your reasoning for why any given unit is represented by the models you have chosen make sense?

I think this one could be the biggest issue - and a definite no-go for tournaments - since it would be the same unit of "spirits" for each daemon type. I would just declare "this is a unit of Plaguebearers this game", while it could be Bloodletters in the next, and Daemonettes in another. It would always be only one unit on the table at any time, so the potential for confusion is minimal, but I acknoledge that it could be considered gamey by some.

 

I also have no option to represent split Horrors with this, so would never summon them.

 

My concern is that, to your opponents, your choice would come across as mere stinginess (or laziness) in using your existing marines instead of daemons.  Therefore, to be acceptable to opponents, I would think that your rationale for using non-daemon models would need to be compelling and would need to be implemented in a way that looked good and made sense. 

Aye, and the point of this thread is to check the opinions of others to find out what possibility provides the strongest narrtive.

[Metzombie]

 

I think this one could be the biggest issue - and a definite no-go for tournaments - since it would be the same unit of "spirits" for each daemon type. I would just declare "this is a unit of Plaguebearers this game", while it could be Bloodletters in the next, and Daemonettes in another. It would always be only one unit on the table at any time, so the potential for confusion is minimal, but I acknoledge that it could be considered gamey by some.

In general I like the idea but I think you should build special modells for the different Deamons. for exempal Fallen with a big sword = Bloodletter. Fallen with two swords = Daemonette. Fallen with Boardingshield and Sword = Plaguebeares.

[DeRome90]

2)  If you are fielding more than one type of daemons, can you opponent easily distinguish which models are which type of daemons?  As well, does your reasoning for why any given unit is represented by the models you have chosen make sense?

 

I don't think that this would be much of a problem (even with splitted Horrors). You just need different unit types. Someting like Metzombie suggested.

For Horrors you use Bolter Marines, then Scouts and then Guardsman (fluffwise old Guard comrades).

For Cavalary you could use some Ravenwing models and for Screamers Assault Marines with Jumppacks.

 

Or you take a complete different route and use/convert Monsters from Caliban... e.g. if you role high enough for a Daemon Prince or even a Greater Daemon