Battlecannon vs Executioner Plasma Cannon

[domsto]

Hello fellow Guard players

 

I am rethinking the loadout of my Russes.

And it pretty much boild down to BC vs Executioner.

I can't decide which one is better.

Both seems to have pro and cons.

 

The Plasma Cannon is cheaper, has better Ap and consistend damage. But with shorter range and relys on overcharging.

 

The BC has a very long range, isn't that vulnerable to -1 to hit modifiers and doesn't need reroll 1s so badly. But only ap-2 and d3 damage often results in only 1 Damage.

 

So how do you equip your Tanks and which one do you think is better overall?

[MrZakalwe]

Every time I use the plasma cannon I regret it - to hit modifiers really mess it up and the range difference should not be underestimated - if you don't take sponsons you have huge deployment freedom with a battlecannon russ as it can generally fire across the board and often be placed out of range of anti-tank threats (or if you deploy first it can be hidden out of LoS to things closer and fired diagonally at targets further down the board that again  can't hit it back - Grinding Advance is love, Grinding Advance is life) 

 

I think the battlecannon is worth the extra points. 

[Wassa]

Relic Battle Cannon > all.

 

I generally prefer mine with Battle Cannons in the rear out of range of enemy Lascannons and not moving for the Cadian reroll 1 bonus while rerolling shots.

 

If I'm against MEQs I may bring an Executioner for the extra AP, and 2 DMG against Primaris hurts. I normally run these as Catachan and equip it with Plasma Sponsons which allow it to move a bit, still reroll 1s, and reroll shots. However it will get shot being in range of enemy anti tank. Can be useful as a distraction though.

[Halfpint100]

Unless your against lots of 3+ or 2+ armour saves, the battle cannons wins every time due to the range and higher strength with no risk. 5+ invun saves are also surprisingly common, so the difference between -2 and -3 ap isn't much. But the difference between S7 and S8 is since a lot of vehicles are T7, the battle cannon wounds them on 3s.

[MrZakalwe]

Unless your against lots of 3+ or 2+ armour saves, the battle cannons wins every time due to the range and higher strength with no risk. 5+ invun saves are also surprisingly common, so the difference between -2 and -3 ap isn't much. But the difference between S7 and S8 is since a lot of vehicles are T7, the battle cannon wounds them on 3s.

The Executioner is S8 if overcharged but otherwise, yeah. 

[WarriorFish]

Plasma isn't something Guard are short of, if you want. Regular troopers can take it, and Stormies can deliver it up close and personal on a 3+. The battlecannon is effective and versatile, plus a nice range on it.

 

My rule of thumb is that if I can get it elsewhere without much trouble, it's not the best choice for my armour. I'd rather have bigger guns for special duties that I can't get elsewhere. Plus the battlecannon is iconic and has served me well for many editions now :)

[duz_]

Pretty much this edition I've always included a command plasmacutioner and never been disappointed

There's also this thread

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334215-improving-the-effectiveness-of-the-leman-russ/

[Colonel Bindoff]

I take Plasma russes almost every time. 42” is more than enough effective range for me (I deploy aggressively!) and the consistency of overcharged damage just wins out: my d3 rolls always seem terrible.

 

And they look great.

 

Don’t be afraid to overcharge all the time. You’ll lose a few wounds but usually not enough to be game changing. And it’s the guard, son. Life is cheap.

[HallofStovokor]

At 2000 points, I always try to bring an executioner and battle cannon. They both have downsides, the battle cannon less since vigilus.

[duz_]

I take Plasma russes almost every time. 42” is more than enough effective range for me (I deploy aggressively!) and the consistency of overcharged damage just wins out: my d3 rolls always seem terrible.

 

And they look great.

 

Don’t be afraid to overcharge all the time. You’ll lose a few wounds but usually not enough to be game changing. And it’s the guard, son. Life is cheap.

Agreed! :tu:

[sairence]

For me it depends on the regiment. Note, i tend to run Tank Commanders these days, rarely regular tanks.

Cadians, I would generally go with Battlecannons, as you need the range to avoid moving.

Catachans I used for quite a while and usually mixed the relic battlecannon and 2 executioners. That consistent damage on all shots was great.

Nowadays I tend to run them as part of my Tallarn brigade and that usually means a Punisher with plasmasponsons, relic battlecannon and potentially an additional battlecannon. I tend to use the extra move order a lot to hide again after shooting, so I appreciate the fixed number of shots on the Punisher.

[Tokugawa]

Battlecannon > else.

 

Ap-1/-2 are best in 8th. Too many good units have isv.

 

If you want plasma, you can mount it on sponsons.

[WarriorFish]

Tank Commanders is a different kettle of fish :P Executioner is a great pick for a TC, Pask even more so as he can hammer pretty much anything with plasma death. Though to be fair, TCs are generally solid for whatever Russ you pick...

[Halfpint100]

Tank Commanders is a different kettle of fish :P Executioner is a great pick for a TC, Pask even more so as he can hammer pretty much anything with plasma death. Though to be fair, TCs are generally solid for whatever Russ you pick...

With the exception of the vanquisher, which is doomed to be useless for the rest of its days

[WarriorFish]

Yeah it's not the best sadly, but Pask can make it work at least :) With the odds to hit greatly improved it did quite well for me, though again you're back to the "what can do it better" question... maybe I'll give it another run out see how it goes.

[Colonel Bindoff]

I've found that the vanquisher does serve a good purpose, actually, in that loads of opponents seem to take it out first.  I don't know why - maybe they're intimidated by the size of its gun or something(?!) but it's often drawing a lot of firepower.  This leaves the actual tank threats, the aforementioned plasma russes and my trusty demolisher (NEVER LEAVE THE BARRACKS WITHOUT ONE) to take names and dispense the emperor's righteous fury.

[domsto]

I've found that the vanquisher does serve a good purpose, actually, in that loads of opponents seem to take it out first. I don't know why - maybe they're intimidated by the size of its gun or something(?!) but it's often drawing a lot of firepower. This leaves the actual tank threats, the aforementioned plasma russes and my trusty demolisher (NEVER LEAVE THE BARRACKS WITHOUT ONE) to take names and dispense the emperor's righteous fury.

Kinda Funny the demolisher was the first i droped out, because for me it seems it la ks both range and shots^^

[duz_]

The Relic battle cannon from Vigilus is pretty nice too

[Colonel Bindoff]

 

I've found that the vanquisher does serve a good purpose, actually, in that loads of opponents seem to take it out first. I don't know why - maybe they're intimidated by the size of its gun or something(?!) but it's often drawing a lot of firepower. This leaves the actual tank threats, the aforementioned plasma russes and my trusty demolisher (NEVER LEAVE THE BARRACKS WITHOUT ONE) to take names and dispense the emperor's righteous fury.

Kinda Funny the demolisher was the first i droped out, because for me it seems it la ks both range and shots^^

 

 

S10 is often handy for me despite the short range.  i use it as a sort of bodyguard unit for the others. Plus wounding stuff on 2s seems to make invulnerable saves less frustrating somehow.  I wouldnt take in a hardcore list though.  

[WarriorFish]

Before 8th Demolishers used to do almost all my heavy lifting, I relied on them to shore up the deficiencies of Guard and they did glorious work especially against vehicles. I even took Vindicators for my Marines too, something about those pie plates o'doom that was immensely fun to put down as well as effecitve Unfortunately I rarely seem to find much opportunity to wish I had them on the table again, and the times I have rolled them out they were decidedly mediocre

 

S10 doesn't seem to yield much benefit, certainly not for my regular foes, so I'd take an Executioner for some heavy hitting (on Pask, for some really heavy hitting!).

[Rommel44]

Executioners are only really worth it if you take the Cadian Doctrine. Battle Cannons all the way imo as they are far more reliable and effective in most cases.

Yeah it's not the best sadly, but Pask can make it work at least :) With the odds to hit greatly improved it did quite well for me, though again you're back to the "what can do it better" question... maybe I'll give it another run out see how it goes.

Pask is the only option that makes a Vanquisher even worth considering imo

[sairence]

Cadian and Catachans Tank Commander are fairly interchangable on their own, with the only real difference being that Catachans don't have to stay still for the full benefit.

 

With their respective mix of doctrine and orders they both get to reroll random shot-numbers and 1s to hit. Catachans get a bit more out of some sponsons, Cadians can get Pask as a 4th elite tank.