War Angel Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 It can move and shoot all of its weapons right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Yes it can .... + Heavy Support [9 PL, 304pts] + Predator [9 PL, 152pts]: Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Heavy Bolters Predator [9 PL, 152pts]: Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Heavy Bolters + Dedicated Transport [16 PL, 280pts] + Repulsor [16 PL, 280pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, 2x Storm Bolters,Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launcher, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Twin heavy bolter Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) .... with less shots but higher strength and more range .... and while Predators don’t have the Fly keyword they are faster than a Repulsor. Here’s the part I find significant. While they are T7 not T8 for what that is worth (and it is something) they have a total of 6 more wounds and are two units/targets that have to be dealt with not just one. This is where personal style comes into play. The Repulsor is a slightly better hammer, but it doesn’t have quite the redundancy/survivability of two Predators. I prefer the durability and ability to effect two different objectives over the Repulsors one. It really is just too juicy a target (especially when loaded with infantry) in a game that takes down Knight Castelans in Turn One. We arent shaking up the meta either way or one of these combos would be top table material .... that are not. What it is, is a difference in approach to a situation PS: I’d prefer a couple units of Aggressors Striking from the Shadows myself (even after the nerf) but that’s a whole other playstyle and definitely not “optimal” anymore ;) My advice is find out what playstyle you enjoy most and make it work the best it can for you. Metas change, rules change, models pretty much stay the same so future proof your fun and go with the rule of cool. Full disclosure I don’t use Predators anymore because they are too closely associated with non-Primaris models .... instead I have two Xiphons Ishagu turned me on to a year or so ago ;) Best of Luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I'd personally pick fly any day of the week. Leaving combat, flying over buildings to get a better firing position, no penalty whilst moving thanks to machine spirit, transport on top of all that and delivering troops. Because Astartes are generally expensive in terms of infantry you need the vehicles to deliver multiple functions. Xiphon is great too. It looks so cool Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 I appreciate the help. Should probably rename this tread “help I feel like a noob and want to pew pew better” So I guess my next step is to start working on the hellblasters and intercessors, then I can make some changes to my list. Then start putting that repulsor together. Any thoughts on the smash captain idea? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Smash captain is decent. The BA one specifically is very good. I've not felt the need to run one myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 My battle plan was to have base and then an element that would deep strike and then another element that would go forward to take objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Any thoughts on the smash captain idea? Very Chapter dependent. Blood Angels do it best by a wide margin. Second place is probably Raven Guard since they have access to the ability to advance and charge and shut off overwatch. After that probably Deathwatch because they can buff their hammers to 4 damage. The rest of the Chapters are all about equal in their Smash Captain being pretty good but not an auto-take by any stretch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I think only the BA Smash Captain is truly viable due to the stratagems to help ensure a long charge, no overwatch and lots of attacks plus four flat damge each attack that gets through. He can one shot a Knight. He also +1 to wound first round of melee... all of these are huge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 I was trying to do a 2000 point list with a captain, LT that held down a fire base of hellblasters eleminators and suppressors while a smash captain an assault squad and an inceptor squad flanked, and two tac squads advanced in rhinos or razorbacks. Didn’t have enough points in the end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Always good to start with the basics WA :) I’d make sure you have a HQ for reroll to hit for those nasty 1’s that disproportionately show up when rapid firing. ;) if you don’t think rapid fire is going to be part of the game plan might think about the heaxy version Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I was trying to do a 2000 point list with a captain, LT that held down a fire base of hellblasters eleminators and suppressors while a smash captain an assault squad and an inceptor squad flanked, and two tac squads advanced in rhinos or razorbacks. Didn’t have enough points in the end. I wouldn’t waste points on an assault squad... they hit like a wet piece of tissue and die to a stiff breeze. Inceptors with plasma are crazy good - each one has 2d3 shots. They die quick too but can do a lot of damage. A think a Librarian would be more useful than a non BA Smash Captain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just a second inceptor squad then I guess lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356222-dealing-with-invol-saves-and-fnp/page/3/#findComment-5323665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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