Field Notes on Daemonkin Ritualists

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

So I've been running the Daemonkin ritualist specialist detachment quite a lot recently and here is what I have discovered so far.

 

 

My setup,

 

Red Corsairs

 

Sorcerer with jump pack, delightful agonies, warptime

Dark Apostle+disciples, -1 to hit prayer(something something illusions?)

2 Greater Possessed.  Both mark of khorne.  Sheppard of the True Faith on one of them.

15-20 possessed marines, mark of slaanesh.

 

1.  These guys can take a beating but only if you list plan for it.  I have run mine as Red Corsairs with Mark of Slaanesh and a dark apostle, sorcerer, and MoP for support.  Against imperial guard they have survived up to turn 3 not holding back at all on multiple occasions.  Other words, do not bring 15-20 possessed marines without support characters.  That always ends badly and ususally on turn 1.

 

 

2.  The MoP sucks. He is too slow and his buff powers too short range to be useful.  The possessed blob is fast and has to be a threat to charge on turn 2 at the latest and preferably turn 1.  As such, you just cannot keep up with the MoP so he is a total waste of 98 points imo.  Furthermore, cursed earth is too unreliable at warp charge 7 to be of much use.  A sorcerer with delightful agonies and warptime is vastly superior.  Getting stuck in on turn 1 and 5++ FNP is superior to anything the MoP does.  I've run him in 6 games now and he has never been a key player.  He either failed to cast his spells or just fallen behind the blob.  IMO he is the least useful buff character for possessed blobs.  He might still be good for summoning or supporting ranged daemonkin but I have yet to test that.

 

3.  Greater Possessed are great.  I would take 3 in every list if i had the models.  These guys are so good for 70 points i dont understand why everyone doesnt have them in any random list.  The thing I like best is that you can give them the Daemonkin Ritualist trait, Sheppard of the True Faith to give your blob some much needed punch in addition to making your character that much more dangerous in close combat.  Always make these guys MoK so you can fight twice if needed.  Always bring at least 1 and give it the detachment warlord trait.   Tactically speaking you can do a lot with these guys.  I have used them for their aoe str buff when needed.  I have used them to character snipe when getting lucky 6s on advance rolls.  Nothing is better than advancing 13 inches and charging a farseer or company commander and ripping their face off for Slay the Warlord.  You can also use them to capture objectives on the bottom of turns with a well timed charge+Fury of Khorne.  

 

4.  The Contorted Epitome is a very good ally.  If you run daemonkin ritualists you should look into daemon allies and nothing is better than the new Slaanesh Mirror/rorschach test model.  It can easily prevent fallbacks, casts hysterical frenzy with some reliability, hits hard in close combat, gives you another +1 str, and it is an excellent psychic defender.   If you face a gunline this model will cause your opponent to lose their mind after the first time you prevent them from doing their favourite "tactic" of falling back and blasting you off the table then bragging about it later on the internet.   Be prepared for a table flip if you cause one of their flyers to crash because they cannon fallback during their movement phase.  My prefered flavour:  Outrider Detachment:  Contorted Epitome, hysterical frenzy, phantasmagoria.  3x1 units of Fiends of Slaanesh.    

 

 

 

Overall I think the Daemonkin Ritualist detachment is fairly solid but only because of the warlord trait it gives.  Possessed marines in general are pretty good in a semi competitive environment but only with proper support.  

 

 

 

  

[N1SB]

Outstanding insight, thanks for sharing, Brother.  Really liked your short report.

[Doom Herald]

Sounds good. I see that you do mention using the GP strength buff. It is important to note that they only buff units with the same <LEGION> and <MARK OF CHAOS>, so if you run them with your Slaanesh possessed, you might want to make them Slaanesh, or break them into two elite units and make 1 Slaanesh.

[Prot]

Great review.... I'll add my own experiences:

 

 

My setup,

 

Red Corsairs

 

Sorcerer with jump pack, delightful agonies, warptime

Dark Apostle+disciples, -1 to hit prayer(something something illusions?)

2 Greater Possessed.  Both mark of khorne.  Sheppard of the True Faith on one of them.

15-20 possessed marines, mark of slaanesh.

 

 

 

Seems like a great setup. I have run mine as Red Corairs, However I primarily play Black Legion and have found that the Black Legion 1 CP to add an extra attack if you outnumber your opponent can be pretty cool. However access to Veterans of the Long War can be very significant.

 

About the Mark: I never know what is better. I've bounced around between playstyles and I found that I seem to really like MoN + Dark Apostle -1 to hit, + Sorc w/Miasma of Pestilence seems to be my 'goto' right now. Having a mob of these guys at -2 to hit (and Miasma carries into close combat) is pretty solid.The minus to hit in close combat can ruin a lot of army's plans to have exploding 6's as a side benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

2.  The MoP sucks. He is too slow and his buff powers too short range to be useful.  The possessed blob is fast and has to be a threat to charge on turn 2 at the latest and preferably turn 1.  As such, you just cannot keep up with the MoP so he is a total waste of 98 points imo.  Furthermore, cursed earth is too unreliable at warp charge 7 to be of much use.  A sorcerer with delightful agonies and warptime is vastly superior.  Getting stuck in on turn 1 and 5++ FNP is superior to anything the MoP does.  I've run him in 6 games now and he has never been a key player.  He either failed to cast his spells or just fallen behind the blob.  IMO he is the least useful buff character for possessed blobs.  He might still be good for summoning or supporting ranged daemonkin but I have yet to test that.

 

 

I also prefer the Sorc with a Jump Pack. Warptime is exceptional for these guys and kind of helps mitigate my choice to not use Red Corsairs. I agree the MoP is slow and many times I consider pulling him out. I agree Cursed Earth is too difficult to get off, and that Aura is REALLY hard to keep in effect. 

 

So what I do is start the MoP in a Rhino, he gets a 3" start bonus this way (sort of from getting out of the Rhino) and you run him up, and if you make a close combat he's often out of reach on T1, but he'll often make it up there. The thing is nearly all the Maelific powers help these guys. Rerolling 1's to hit AND wound is also a nice boon. But I agree, getting this guy to the dance feels very labour intensive. The last selling point I have for him is "Vessels of the Neverborne" or something like that. Basically for 1 CP you add an attack and +1 Strength.

 

 

3.  Greater Possessed are great.  I would take 3 in every list if i had the models.  These guys are so good for 70 points i dont understand why everyone doesnt have them in any random list.  The thing I like best is that you can give them the Daemonkin Ritualist trait, Sheppard of the True Faith to give your blob some much needed punch in addition to making your character that much more dangerous in close combat.  Always make these guys MoK so you can fight twice if needed.  Always bring at least 1 and give it the detachment warlord trait.   Tactically speaking you can do a lot with these guys.  I have used them for their aoe str buff when needed.  I have used them to character snipe when getting lucky 6s on advance rolls.  Nothing is better than advancing 13 inches and charging a farseer or company commander and ripping their face off for Slay the Warlord.  You can also use them to capture objectives on the bottom of turns with a well timed charge+Fury of Khorne.   

 

 

 

I love these models personally. I love what they do, my problem is I find if I used 2-3 the rest of the list suffers. The counter to this list is pretty popular in my meta right now: Basically vehicles, and fly. Or both. (Tau, Eldar flying machines lists). Those match ups are super ugly. You can't interact with the Eldar flying machines lists... I've just come off a 6 game ITC event and in two games I fought 3 Crimson Hunters, + 5 Falcons. or 3 Crimson Hunters, + Bikes and Fire Prisms. These lists leave you having very little interaction with them. They are on one end of the table, then the next. You can't hide from them, and you won't out objective them. 

4.  The Contorted Epitome is a very good ally.  If you run daemonkin ritualists you should look into daemon allies and nothing is better than the new Slaanesh Mirror/rorschach test model.  It can easily prevent fallbacks, casts hysterical frenzy with some reliability, hits hard in close combat, gives you another +1 str, and it is an excellent psychic defender.   If you face a gunline this model will cause your opponent to lose their mind after the first time you prevent them from doing their favourite "tactic" of falling back and blasting you off the table then bragging about it later on the internet.   Be prepared for a table flip if you cause one of their flyers to crash because they cannon fallback during their movement phase.  My prefered flavour:  Outrider Detachment:  Contorted Epitome, hysterical frenzy, phantasmagoria.  3x1 units of Fiends of Slaanesh.    

 

 

 

Overall I think the Daemonkin Ritualist detachment is fairly solid but only because of the warlord trait it gives.  Possessed marines in general are pretty good in a semi competitive environment but only with proper support.  

 

 

 

 

I'll have to look into the Contorted Epitome. I've never tried it, but in part it's my reluctance to ally.

4.  The Contorted Epitome is a very good ally.  If you run daemonkin ritualists you should look into daemon allies and nothing is better than the new Slaanesh Mirror/rorschach test model.  It can easily prevent fallbacks, casts hysterical frenzy with some reliability, hits hard in close combat, gives you another +1 str, and it is an excellent psychic defender.   If you face a gunline this model will cause your opponent to lose their mind after the first time you prevent them from doing their favourite "tactic" of falling back and blasting you off the table then bragging about it later on the internet.   Be prepared for a table flip if you cause one of their flyers to crash because they cannon fallback during their movement phase.  My prefered flavour:  Outrider Detachment:  Contorted Epitome, hysterical frenzy, phantasmagoria.  3x1 units of Fiends of Slaanesh.    

 

 

 

Overall I think the Daemonkin Ritualist detachment is fairly solid but only because of the warlord trait it gives.  Possessed marines in general are pretty good in a semi competitive environment but only with proper support.  

 

[ChazSexington]

Love it! I'm considering running something similar with my Alpha Legion (subbing out Advance and Charge for Scout Move).

 

Two questions:

Have you tried stringing out the Possessed or does that hamper their punch? 

How competitive are the lists you're facing? I'm thinking Punisher Tank Commanders would shred Possessed. 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Sounds good. I see that you do mention using the GP strength buff. It is important to note that they only buff units with the same <LEGION> and <MARK OF CHAOS>, so if you run them with your Slaanesh possessed, you might want to make them Slaanesh, or break them into two elite units and make 1 Slaanesh.

 

Yeah I guess I wasnt clear on that point.  When I run two GP... one of them is slaanesh for the aura, the other is khorne.  Fight twice is very useful.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Love it! I'm considering running something similar with my Alpha Legion (subbing out Advance and Charge for Scout Move).

 

Two questions:

Have you tried stringing out the Possessed or does that hamper their punch? 

How competitive are the lists you're facing? I'm thinking Punisher Tank Commanders would shred Possessed. 

I face mostly semi competitive stuff I think that is the where possessed blobs are at also.  I generally do not string them out.  I mostly keep them together and try to use them shred chaff, tie stuff up, and pickoff lighter targets.  I dont think Red Corsairs can play them for straight up damage dealing.  I would think Alpha Legion have the best version of possessed marines because they get -1 to hit for free and VoTLW.  You could easily get them to -3 to hit, +2 to wound , and whatever else.  

 

I wouldnt worry too much about punisher tanks.  They less effective against a blob than regular russes if you factor in delightful agonies+-1 to hit prayer.  

[Mekhitar]

If you touch cover with your possessed you don’t need to worry about punishers. 2+ armor ruins their day - same with vultures.

 

It’s plasma tanks (d2) and the relic battle cannon (d3) that will hurt, esp with Vengeance for Cadia, pitting you onto just your invuln.

[Prot]

If you touch cover with your possessed you don’t need to worry about punishers. 2+ armor ruins their day - same with vultures.

 

It’s plasma tanks (d2) and the relic battle cannon (d3) that will hurt, esp with Vengeance for Cadia, pitting you onto just your invuln.

 

Vengeance for Cadia absolutely demolished me in my tournament last weekend. Stuff like Basilisks getting 11 shots with reroll all is just sick. Plus you know every bloody Astra list had dual or triple batallions.

 

Possessed are fun, but even though out of the gates some were professing them as -the- competitive option in the codex, I never believed that. My meta is loaded in shooty armies geared against infantry pretty well. Plus a pile of it has fly which is a nemesis to these lists.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

If you touch cover with your possessed you don’t need to worry about punishers. 2+ armor ruins their day - same with vultures.

 

It’s plasma tanks (d2) and the relic battle cannon (d3) that will hurt, esp with Vengeance for Cadia, pitting you onto just your invuln.

 

Vengeance for Cadia absolutely demolished me in my tournament last weekend. Stuff like Basilisks getting 11 shots with reroll all is just sick. Plus you know every bloody Astra list had dual or triple batallions.

 

Possessed are fun, but even though out of the gates some were professing them as -the- competitive option in the codex, I never believed that. My meta is loaded in shooty armies geared against infantry pretty well. Plus a pile of it has fly which is a nemesis to these lists.

 

Sounds like you ventured into the realm of "competitive" with a semi competitive list.   Next time try alpha legion with the -1 to hit prayer.  I bet that would work a lot better.

[Prot]

I realize my list wasn’t competitive, but I won’t lower my Black Legion to creeping in the shadows ;).

 

The dogs of the emperor will see their killers!

 

Seriously though, as mentioned above, my take with my experiences with possessed is Miasma and dark apostle for a minus 2.

[40kChrista]

I've been running a 20 strong unit as Flawless Host with Icon of Excess, and 2 Greater Possessed.  They can do some heavy lifting, even though they get killed every time.

 

I've run DAs, Sorcerers, ECs, and MoPs with them and have; pretty much; realized I'll need to use Sorcerers or Lords with jump packs to keep up.  Which I think with Warptime and Delightful Agonies isn't a bad thing. 

 

I've also ran Slaanesh Heralds with these guys for the extra Strength and to, hopefully, get off a Hysterical Frenzy or two.  Sadly I haven't been able to get this to work well yet... I suck at positioning characters for maximum effect.  Contorted Epitome is also been a option, but haven't been able to try it yet.

[Prot]

In one game I did a turn 1 summon of bloodletters through the MoP which worked well but it felt like too many points to back the Possessed and there isn’t a shot fired between all of that.

 

Aside from that I haven’t tried any Daemon units with them. It does sound like some of the new Slaanesh stuff might be fun.

[40kChrista]

I'm in the same boat... i have my Possessed unit and I'm just trying to figure out the best support options for them that's not over the top.

 

It seems to be the only thing a MoP is good for is the move and summon.  They just seem so slow to buff a Possessed unit while trying to keep up.  Although, the Flawless Cloak does help mitigate that somewhat by bumping auras 3".

 

I'm going to try Syll'Esske with the Possessed this weekend... the combo of Herald and Demon Prince *should* be great.

 

Another demon option could be an Infernal Enrapturess... she has the Herald of Slaanesh keyword, good shooting, and +3 to her summoning rolls; but that's probably way more situational as the MoP ability to move and summon is much better.

[Mekhitar]

I’m fairly certain that “auras” are only abilities on a character’s data sheet - which psychic powers are not - so alas no help there.

 

MOP do have uses, but I find much more so in a daemon engine list (putting all your 130+ pt machinery on a 4++ is nice); less so wth possessed, I guess. It’s rough, characters usually end up move + advancing behind the cc bubble and then go out of range when the charge is made. For large units stringing back isn’t so hard, but possessed are expensive to string out.

 

Eta:

You know, I went digging in the FAQs and all I found was (1) auras are persistent abilities, (2) the space wolf strats are considered auras, (3) the Sisters strat ‘vessels’ is not an aura b/c it is instantaneous.

 

Given that, I think you are right about flawless cloak. Cool! Going right into my list :)

[Doom Herald]

I’m fairly certain that “auras” are only abilities on a character’s data sheet - which psychic powers are not - so alas no help there.

 

MOP do have uses, but I find much more so in a daemon engine list (putting all your 130+ pt machinery on a 4++ is nice); less so wth possessed, I guess. It’s rough, characters usually end up move + advancing behind the cc bubble and then go out of range when the charge is made. For large units stringing back isn’t so hard, but possessed are expensive to string out.

 

Eta:

You know, I went digging in the FAQs and all I found was (1) auras are persistent abilities, (2) the space wolf strats are considered auras, (3) the Sisters strat ‘vessels’ is not an aura b/c it is instantaneous.

 

Given that, I think you are right about flawless cloak. Cool! Going right into my list :)

What you do have to watch for is that some abilities, I believe Voice of Largar is among them, say they afg2ect auras on the unit's datasheet. Psychic powers don't affect these, since the aura isn't on the datasheet. I do not believe the flawless cloak specifies on the datasheet though, so it should be fine.

[Prot]

All I can say about the Aura thing is this:

 

Last year when I was taking Deathguard to a tournament I was  going to use the aura extender ability on a unit that I was giving an aura ability to (To re roll ALL to wounds on Plague weapons).

 

I was told I cannot do this and that it is meant for inherent ability aura's so only the 're roll 1's' to hit aura, and not a secondary aura I would give the Daemon Prince. I was told this came from some GW definitions. I'm sorry I'm vague but I don't know the actual source of that rule, just that it was enforced on me.

[Dallas Drake]

The latest FAQ specifically mentioned that Arch Contaminator is affected by Fugaris' Helm. Not sure why it took years to FAQ but there you go...

[40kChrista]

@ Doom Herald - Voice of Lorgar has the same wording as Flawless Cloak now as per CSM FAQ... increase the range of bearer's aura abilities (Lord of Chaos, Demagogue, etc) by 3", but Voice also specifically states it works for Prayers too.  Which does leave it for the Cloak to NOT work for psychic powers such as Cursed Earth, or other non-Word Bearer Apostle Prayers... even though they have a specific radius that could be effected.

 

I know logic doesn't always equal game mechanics.

 

@ Prot -  The only BRB aura ref is for page 179, where it just states the bearers benefit from their own auras, nothing in the recent CSM faq, or BRB faq, I don't know Deathguard at all though, so I apologize for my lack of knowledge there.  It could also mean I have missed it, which I wouldn't surprise me since I don't play as much as I would like.

 

To get slightly back on topic... I try and run Slaanesh Heralds from a Slaanesh Aligned Detachment for the Adv/Charge with my Possessed.  Its worked out pretty well so far.  That's why I think Syll'Esske (+1S, Adv/Charge, re-roll 1s to hit) with a big unit of Possessed should work well for a Daemonkin Ritualist detachment and have an Epitome close by for back up if it's not babysitting a Soulforged Pack demon engines so they Adv/Charge as well.   Throw in a MoP for Cursed Earth and the Ritualist Warlord Trait for the Mortal Wounds on 6s.

[Prot]

So I don’t know much about Daemons and I don’t know off the top of my head what a Slaanesh Herald does but what about that new unit? I think it forces a 3D6 leadership test on a unit that wants to fallback from close combat.

[40kChrista]

All flavors of Heralds give +1S to friendly demon units... i.e. CSM demon units - Possessed, Mutilators, etc.  If you took a Supreme Command Detachmnet of demon HQs and made them all the same alignment characters get a bonus ability called a Locus... in the case of Slaanesh Demons it's Adv/Charge.

 

The unit you are referring to is The Contorted Epitome and it's a beast. All units within 6" must roll under their LD on 3D6 if they want to fall back. It also ads 1 to Psychic and Deny tests, casts 2 powers, and eats Mortal Wounds on 2+. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Another benefit of the Epitome is that it fast - I think its movement is 12, making it far faster than your typical mirror. :)

[Prot]

I must have one of these magic mirrors for my possessed. I think playing mono Black Legion is a little too difficult in the competitive meta here and either I have to maximize Abaddon ( cut out possesses) or embrace a Slaanesh daemon slant to hive myself a chance. Right now I don’t know any to go all in on the Daemons. I kind of dislike the idea of making the army too reliant on Daemons.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

All flavors of Heralds give +1S to friendly demon units... i.e. CSM demon units - Possessed, Mutilators, etc.  If you took a Supreme Command Detachmnet of demon HQs and made them all the same alignment characters get a bonus ability called a Locus... in the case of Slaanesh Demons it's Adv/Charge.

 

The unit you are referring to is The Contorted Epitome and it's a beast. All units within 6" must roll under their LD on 3D6 if they want to fall back. It also ads 1 to Psychic and Deny tests, casts 2 powers, and eats Mortal Wounds on 2+. 

It also denies 2 powers!  It is comparable although still inferior to Ahriman in that regard.

[40kChrista]

I must have one of these magic mirrors for my possessed. I think playing mono Black Legion is a little too difficult in the competitive meta here and either I have to maximize Abaddon ( cut out possesses) or embrace a Slaanesh daemon slant to hive myself a chance. Right now I don’t know any to go all in on the Daemons. I kind of dislike the idea of making the army too reliant on Daemons.

 

I think playing mono anything is difficult task... seems to be too limiting at the moment. 

 

It doesn't have to be Slaanesh demons, it could Khorne demons instead... I play Slaanesh demons because I love the idea of them, and I love the models for them as well.

 

You don't have to go all in on demons... they're just another tool on the box.  The list I'm trying on Saturday will only have 3 demons in it from the Demon Codex. 

 

I think if you're playing demon heavy CSM units, it would behoove you to try some demons.  Even if it's just a Supreme Command Detachment of 3 Heralds.

 

That said, in terms of Daemonkin Ritualists... barebones Heralds can keep up with your Possessed while buffing all the demon CSMs.  You can mix and match what you need with the Locus each Herald can bring with a good Legion Trait.  They're cheap, buff, can be psykers... did I mention they're cheap?