Field Notes on Daemonkin Ritualists

[Prot]

Sounds like something I might try one day. The Slaanesh models are nice looking. I used to run a cheap battalion of Nurgle with Deathguard but it was super cheap with three nurgling squads and a pair of Heralds. This made sense with the foetid drones and plagueburst crawlers.

[Doom Herald]

@ Doom Herald - Voice of Lorgar has the same wording as Flawless Cloak now as per CSM FAQ... increase the range of bearer's aura abilities (Lord of Chaos, Demagogue, etc) by 3", but Voice also specifically states it works for Prayers too. Which does leave it for the Cloak to NOT work for psychic powers such as Cursed Earth, or other non-Word Bearer Apostle Prayers... even though they have a specific radius that could be effected.

 

 

You are right about the wording now that we have the FAQ. Not all prayers are Auras though. Take Soul Tearer Portent for example, it has a target, but it is not an aura. With Voice of Lorgar's FAQ though, it allows you to pick a target up to 9" away instead of a target 6" away, despite not being an aura. This would obviously not increase the range of a power that picks a target (ie: sacrifice) but the aura generated by a psychic power is different (ie: the aura granted by Cursed Earth).

 

 

On another note, has anyone considered using the familiar strat to give Warp Time to a MoP so it can keep up? I know it's probably not the best use of a CP and Warp Time, but it could be useful if you focus on Possessed.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

@ Doom Herald - Voice of Lorgar has the same wording as Flawless Cloak now as per CSM FAQ... increase the range of bearer's aura abilities (Lord of Chaos, Demagogue, etc) by 3", but Voice also specifically states it works for Prayers too. Which does leave it for the Cloak to NOT work for psychic powers such as Cursed Earth, or other non-Word Bearer Apostle Prayers... even though they have a specific radius that could be effected.

 

You are right about the wording now that we have the FAQ. Not all prayers are Auras though. Take Soul Tearer Portent for example, it has a target, but it is not an aura. With Voice of Lorgar's FAQ though, it allows you to pick a target up to 9" away instead of a target 6" away, despite not being an aura. This would obviously not increase the range of a power that picks a target (ie: sacrifice) but the aura generated by a psychic power is different (ie: the aura granted by Cursed Earth).

 

 

On another note, has anyone considered using the familiar strat to give Warp Time to a MoP so it can keep up? I know it's probably not the best use of a CP and Warp Time, but it could be useful if you focus on Possessed.

 

Seems like a bad idea.  A jump pack sorcerer is keeps up and casts warptime on the blob which is what you want to cast it on.  The MoP just sucks for fast blobs since the base unit cannot do what you want it to do without adding other inefficient choices.  

[40kChrista]

Lol, if they would just let Dark Apostles, MoP, MoE, Exalted Champs, and maybe Warpsmiths take jump packs the codex would be darn near perfect.

[40kChrista]

So with today's game finished up, I have some observations...

 

Running Flawless Host for my Daemonkin Ritualists(DR) was a good pick. 

 

Using Greater Possessed(2 total) and Syll'Esske for S7 Possessed with re-roll 1s was awesome.  Syll'Esske is a great multiplier for Possessed... +1S, re-roll 1s, re-roll Morale Tests, and taking Hysterical Frenzy to get the Possesed to fight in the Psychic phase is great.  Especially with proccing 2 extra attacks with DttFE, and DttImp.  Conversely, I think using 2 Heralds on foot could be just as good with one more Smite, and cheaper.

 

DR really needs Feild Commander for the detachment warlord trait... those 6s proccing Mortal Wounds was wonderful against Custodes.  I think a MoP with the Flawless Cloak would be best here so you can boost those much needed abilities to make those Possessed really shine.  This past game the 4++ and re-roll number of attacks was great.  If I wasn't running Syll'Esske I'd probably take Infernal Power for the re-rolls.

 

All in all, I wasn't disappointed and the detachment did some work.  Syll'Esske seems to be the final thing I needed to make my version of it work really well, a few more games and I'll know for sure.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

With 2 heralds, you wouldn't get the reroll 1s, though - you would need a lord or a daemon prince for that.

[40kChrista]

With 2 heralds, you wouldn't get the reroll 1s, though - you would need a lord or a daemon prince for that.

 

Fair... but it's unit redundancy, an extra Smite and extra Deny for about half the points.  Or use an Apostle for rerolls, for less than half of Syll'Esske... there's always options.  Points can be less of an issue at 2000, if it's a 1750 game you may want to go 2 Heralds instead.

 

I also thought using the Chaos Familiar strat to swap out Smite for Prescience on a MoP... casting it on the big Possessed unit with an Icon to get the procs for DttFE on 4+ and DttImp on 5+ and that unit becomes much more of a problem.

 

This specialist detachment can be tweaked in several ways, and I love people are talking about what they've tried for it to work or are thinking about trying.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest that 2 heralds might not be better, but just that the bundle of advantages you described would not actually include the reroll.  For a build where you are fishing for 6s (or 5s and 6s if you have the banner), that reroll 1 has a bigger impact than just giving 50% of your misses another chance to hit.  That said, even if the reroll is key (or even if just good) for your build, you might be better off with one herald and one chaos lord, rather than essentially having both models wrapped into a more expensive package with the Dynamic Duo. 

[Prot]

What make are they getting?

 

I had one game trying flawless host with my Lord Discordants and it was okay, not great. With the Possessed I’ve gone through a few iterations and if I’m not doing Black Legion for the +1 attack Strat, I’m typically trying Red Corsairs but the problem with both Flawless Host and Red Corsairs is Vets of the Long Wars is so good against Knights or really darn near anything.

 

So again my best effort was against Tau. Using Nurgle Sorc and Dark Apostle to get them to -2 to hit. The Tau just couldn’t get rid if enough of them. It was either shoot at -2 at Possessed or shoot the Disco Lords. Once I fit into him with bonus attacks and the Warlord trait it was all but over.

[40kChrista]

What make?  I'm afraid I don't understand.

 

Lol, my Disco Lord(also the Warlord) was very lackluster yesterday... no extra hits at all!  But to be fair, I did mess up deployment and forget a bunch of things, so that's on me.  

 

You could always use an Apostle for the +1 to Wound when you're not running Black Legion.

[Prot]

Sorry my phone autocorrected mark into make. Good point about the Apostle, but come to think of it he’s usually only in range for one turn.

[40kChrista]

Sorry my phone autocorrected mark into make. Good point about the Apostle, but come to think of it he’s usually only in range for one turn.

 

Ah... i see... Mark of Slaanesh all day.  I'm pretty much dividing my forces to shooty Black Legion and CC Flawless Host.  I love Possessed, so Daemonkin Ritualist was an awesome addition; for me at least; from Vigilus:Ablaze.

[Prot]

 

Sorry my phone autocorrected mark into make. Good point about the Apostle, but come to think of it he’s usually only in range for one turn.

 

 

Ah... i see... Mark of Slaanesh all day.  I'm pretty much dividing my forces to shooty Black Legion and CC Flawless Host.  I love Possessed, so Daemonkin Ritualist was an awesome addition; for me at least; from Vigilus:Ablaze.

Have you played any tournaments with it yet? The reason I ask is I just finished blogging about my 6 game tournament experience and I found a few major issues I would have run up against. ( I did take Black Legion but it was based on what I wanted to take that I had painted) and the big problem I saw was the multiple Deldar airshow lists ( I personally faced 2). Those lists are extremely hard to interact with using assault forces and without a massive footprint they can challenge a firebase from a good distance, while being -2 to hit.

 

How have you handled that sort of matchup?

[40kChrista]

I don't really play tournaments, last one was GamesDay Chicago with Eye of Terror 13th Co., since I have a tendency to forget rules, and I am just an all around slower player anymore... that's probably mostly due to only playing 1-2 times per month so I never really get a chance to cement things in place well.  Practice makes perfect, and all that.  I like the game, I like the models, but the tournament scene has been slowly becoming more of a turn off as it gains popularity.

 

So I wish I could pass along better info for you but all my info is from a friend that I regularly play.  We play Matched and up-to-date FAQs.  My buddy plays  Custodes, so really great infantry that's really durable, and can be fast.  I'm trying to go through every combo I can think of without resorting to Death Hex right away.  After 5 games the current layout seems good.  So the core is set.

 

What about Prescience and Warpsight Plea on a lascannon, or maybe autocannon, Havoc unit or two?  If you'd like you can message me so we don't derail the thread too much.

 

After reading your bat-reps, there's only a few things I would have changed.  You seem like a very competent player, it just looked like some bad match ups and bad dice.

[ChazSexington]

 

 

Sorry my phone autocorrected mark into make. Good point about the Apostle, but come to think of it he’s usually only in range for one turn.

 

Ah... i see... Mark of Slaanesh all day.  I'm pretty much dividing my forces to shooty Black Legion and CC Flawless Host.  I love Possessed, so Daemonkin Ritualist was an awesome addition; for me at least; from Vigilus:Ablaze.

Have you played any tournaments with it yet? The reason I ask is I just finished blogging about my 6 game tournament experience and I found a few major issues I would have run up against. ( I did take Black Legion but it was based on what I wanted to take that I had painted) and the big problem I saw was the multiple Deldar airshow lists ( I personally faced 2). Those lists are extremely hard to interact with using assault forces and without a massive footprint they can challenge a firebase from a good distance, while being -2 to hit.

 

How have you handled that sort of matchup?

 

 

I follow the tournament scene and run a few myself, and I have to say, facing two Dark Eldar flying circus lists... I feel for you. 

 

Don Hooson runs 3x Heldrakes alongside a Disco Lord. I'm not sure if it would solve the problem - Eldar flyer lists are really strong (and boring). The best thing about Eldar players is that they don't play Tau.

 

https://donhooson.wordpress.com/2019/05/14/the-bao-list-takes-flight/

[Prot]

So true.

 

Don (if I may be so bold) probably suffered from pulling the Drakes. I say this in our conversation especially since we are talking about Possessed lists. I personally believe that aside from AdMech that we can really struggle from facing Eldar airshows. With Possessed we aren’t typically taking Daemon Princes. ( maybe we should? Or perhaps DPs with wings are flat out better?)

 

So for my money in ITC I’d have a Scorpius whirlwind or something with indirect as well as a way to interact with flyers. I know the Deredeo is a fix but it really doesn’t fit the Possessed lists too well.

[Doom Herald]

I'm not too familiar with Eldar rules but, if the flyers have a minimum movement, summoning Skaarbrand or the Contorted Epitome could help deal with them. Allying them in could help too. I do suppose getting them within 1" of the flyers is a problem though. Between Heroic Interventions and movement in the fight phase, you can maybe make it of the flyers get too close to your or their units. Not ideal, but it does add a little more they have to be mindful of or lose models easily.

 

Edit: the more I think about it, the more it seems like this is a useless idea. It kind of depends too much on your opponent screwing up. I'll blame it on late night posting. :p Throwing some bloodthirsters that can actually fly, unlike Skaarbrand, might do decent though.

[ChazSexington]

I'm not too familiar with Eldar rules but, if the flyers have a minimum movement, summoning Skaarbrand or the Contorted Epitome could help deal with them. Allying them in could help too. I do suppose getting them within 1" of the flyers is a problem though. Between Heroic Interventions and movement in the fight phase, you can maybe make it of the flyers get too close to your or their units. Not ideal, but it does add a little more they have to be mindful of or lose models easily.

 

Edit: the more I think about it, the more it seems like this is a useless idea. It kind of depends too much on your opponent screwing up. I'll blame it on late night posting. Throwing some bloodthirsters that can actually fly, unlike Skaarbrand, might do decent though.

 

You're on to something - Raptors, Warp Talons, Furies, Daemon Princes with Wings etc. can fly, so if you have a Contorted Epitome within 6" of a Flyer that's been charged by a unit with Fly, the Flyer autocombusts. I think that's the case, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

[Panzer]

That's right. Just not very practical. Apart from Daemon Princes those units aren't exactly good and you still have to catch those Flyers with at least two units who also have to survive (it should be pretty obvious what you are attempting when moving an Epitome towards a flyer ^^).

[Doom Herald]

Well, consider the forced roll for fallback aura has an effective threat range of 16+D6 for both units (8"M+8"aura & 10"M+6"aura +D6 for advance), so we only need it to get within 18" (being conservative on the advance roll) of the whichever unit you are using. Then we need a charger. Furies are the cheapest, as Nurgle, they have the most survivability against the explosion and melee, though Tzeentch are more likely to survive overwatch and almost as likely to survive melee. Screamers are nice too with 16" movement. Being conservative with charge rolls, they have a fairly reliable threat range of 20". The other option, is to ally a Host Raptorial and deepstrike Raptors (Cheaper) or Warp Talons (immume to everwatch) with the warlord trait for +2 to charge, succeeding on a 7+ charge roll.

 

The best option is probably Screamers, which can be summoned before hand or already on the fieald, or the Host Raptorial which can be dropped anywhere, meaning you only need the flyer to be in range of 1 model. Also, if you do Night Lord Raptors with the Nurgle Icon, you get -3Ld, making that break away roll even harder. You still need your oponent to make a small mistake, but if you are already using the Epitome, it's just a matter of adding a few other units, some of which might be summoned with a MoP.

 

Side note: I haven't seen anything that restricts the Contorted Epitome to 1/army. This would mean you can take multiple to make it harder for your oponent to keep out of their auras' threat range. Maybe take a supreme command of 3 of them so they get the Locus.

 

Edit: the Epitome has a 12" movement, so a practical threat range of 20.

[40kChrista]

Side note: I haven't seen anything that restricts the Contorted Epitome to 1/army. This would mean you can take multiple to make it harder for your oponent to keep out of their auras' threat range. Maybe take a supreme command of 3 of them so they get the Locus.

 

It's a generic HQ choice, you can take 3 if you want.