Gederas Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Is the Warhammer 40k CHAINSWORD realistic? For those who don't want to watch the full video: By Shad's own observations and research: Yes, they actually are, because of how they work and the mechanics of swords and chainsaws. Chainswords have weaknesses in real life that make the difficult as weapons that Warhammer overcomes within its setting due to the mechanics of how they're made. Because due to how chainswords work and are designed, they wouldn't get stuck inside any material they're cutting through, like a normal chainsaw would. Result: Plausible, devastating, nasty. Issues in real life with our current tech, but the mechanics of it make sense Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Eleysium Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 The Astartes Chainsword has always been one of my favorite weapons in the 40K universe and I can't think of anything more terrifying of a weapon for someone to use on someone in a melee. The noise and the intimidation factor would just be the epitome of striking fear into your opponents heart IMO. Not to deviate the thread, but I have always wished they had their own special profile. Maybe one day! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Can you summarize for those who can’t youtube at work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 Can you summarize for those who can’t youtube at work Errr.... did you scroll past the video on my post? I did exactly that it :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
THUNDERFISTS Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 I've been bingeing Shadiversity while up with the newborn, very enthusiastic and well informed stuff. Excited to watch this later tonight! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 For those who don't want to watch the full video: By Shad's own observations and research: Yes, they actually are, because of how they work and the mechanics of swords and chainsaws. Chainswords have weaknesses in real life that make the difficult as weapons that Warhammer overcomes within its setting due to the mechanics of how they're made. Because due to how chainswords work and are designed, they wouldn't get stuck inside any material they're cutting through, like a normal chainsaw would. Result: Plausible, devastating, nasty. Issues in real life with our current tech, but the mechanics of it make sense That's kinda like asking whether 40k magic is realistic and answering it with "Yes, in 40k magic makes sense because of how the warp works" lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Well, it does answer this question; if we assume you have a super sharp blade material that doesn't dull easily, why not just make a sword out of it? And the answer seems legit. For the non-video inclined because a super-sharp sword will cut into something, but the material itself will extert pressure on the side of the blade. With a cut, you need to push aside material the width of the blade as you cut deeper. For example, wood - hit a big piece of wood with a sword or axe, and the grip of the wood on the side of the blade slows it down until it gets stuck or has enough momentum to cut all the way through. Carrying in more momentum, or a sharper blade will cut deeper, but the limit is finite, as anyone who's chopped wood has experienced. A chainsaw works not because it's sharp per se, but because it literally saws away the material in its way until its gone. Speed up the blade, it'll chop material faster, make the blade one molecule sharp, it'll cut into armour and keep going. The downside is it's heavier and more unwieldy, but this is solved by having a super-strong power-armour assisted space marine swing it. He does raise one funny idea though, which I'll expand on. Cutting into something with a high speed chainsaw blade, i.e. a chainsword, means in effect throwing high speed small chunks in the same direction as the blade is running - and they all have the blades pointed down towards the hilt, indicating that's the direction of the rotation. Presumably not a problem if wearing power armour, but for a guardsman in fatigues he's basically going to riddle his own body and legs with high speed metal shrapnel if he attacks an armoured target with one. Thus also answering the question why Imperial Guard infantry squad sergeants can take a chainsword, but Commissars can't - they're smart enough to know the consequences of using one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Eye Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Haven't watched it myself yet but from the points raised here I think that does make sense. Personally I'm of the opinion that rule of cool/"It's grimdark, I ain't gotta explain gak" is all the explanation you need, but still, it is nice to know it's not completely implausible. Also, on another note, IIRC don't the Eldar/Aeldari Striking Scorpions use chainswords with single-piece blades that work a bit like a bandsaw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Well, it does answer this question; if we assume you have a super sharp blade material that doesn't dull easily, why not just make a sword out of it? And the answer seems legit. For the non-video inclined because a super-sharp sword will cut into something, but the material itself will extert pressure on the side of the blade. With a cut, you need to push aside material the width of the blade as you cut deeper. For example, wood - hit a big piece of wood with a sword or axe, and the grip of the wood on the side of the blade slows it down until it gets stuck or has enough momentum to cut all the way through. Carrying in more momentum, or a sharper blade will cut deeper, but the limit is finite, as anyone who's chopped wood has experienced. A chainsaw works not because it's sharp per se, but because it literally saws away the material in its way until its gone. Speed up the blade, it'll chop material faster, make the blade one molecule sharp, it'll cut into armour and keep going. The downside is it's heavier and more unwieldy, but this is solved by having a super-strong power-armour assisted space marine swing it. Well that's basically what Relic blades are. Just a super sharp blade made of a special alloy. And as we can see, it's stronger than a chainsword in 40k. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Good think it's not lindybeige lol. I'll watch this video later but does he take into account that chainsword's casing (two slabs of thick plate on either side of a chain) make it impossible for any cut to be deeper than a chain teeth's lenght when striking "solid matter" (non organic)? Some time ago I've seen Commisar's Game old video about chainswords where the verdict is "nope". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Well, it does answer this question; if we assume you have a super sharp blade material that doesn't dull easily, why not just make a sword out of it? And the answer seems legit. For the non-video inclined because a super-sharp sword will cut into something, but the material itself will extert pressure on the side of the blade. With a cut, you need to push aside material the width of the blade as you cut deeper. For example, wood - hit a big piece of wood with a sword or axe, and the grip of the wood on the side of the blade slows it down until it gets stuck or has enough momentum to cut all the way through. Carrying in more momentum, or a sharper blade will cut deeper, but the limit is finite, as anyone who's chopped wood has experienced. A chainsaw works not because it's sharp per se, but because it literally saws away the material in its way until its gone. Speed up the blade, it'll chop material faster, make the blade one molecule sharp, it'll cut into armour and keep going. The downside is it's heavier and more unwieldy, but this is solved by having a super-strong power-armour assisted space marine swing it. Well that's basically what Relic blades are. Just a super sharp blade made of a special alloy. And as we can see, it's stronger than a chainsword in 40k. Relic blades are ancient power swords, not just sharp metal. Super advanced tech from the Dark Age of Technology, armour-breaking energy field weapons definitely fall under the handwavium side of things! Good think it's not lindybeige lol. I'll watch this video later but does he take into account that chainsword's casing (two slabs of thick plate on either side of a chain) make it impossible for any cut to be deeper than a chain teeth's lenght when striking "solid matter" (non organic)? Some time ago I've seen Commisar's Game old video about chainswords where the verdict is "nope". briefly - allowances are made for models being made of real resin/plastic so the teeth aren't monomolecular cutting edges either, but he does criticise the artwork for the same flaw. He does thinks a more slender sword shape would work better. As with an ordinary sword, you can 'wedge' the target material open somewhat, and the direction of the chain will defacto pull the chainsword into the target. He mainly considers the need to keep contact with the target to keep it chewing away though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Armored targets aren't the best use of a chainsword. You want to hit something with one that has little or no armor. A chainsword in use is less about killing your enemy with it and more about mangling them so badly they can't fight anymore. And given that battlefield medics are pretty rare in the 40k universe, a badly maimed enemy is likely only a few minutes away from being a dead one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Heh, fun! It's interesting to see this analysis of the chainsword. It's one of those weapons that periodically attracts complaints on fora about realism. While that consideration never really bothers me in 40k; I always like to point out the value of the chainsword against the large amount of cabling/soft armour visible on marines, which it'd make short work of. I also thought it'd be of some value in throwing your opponent off-balance – if the teeth catch, you'll pull them down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialIssue Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I did a similar analysis a while ago that touches on most of these points, with some varying conclusions. In particular, the differences in his analysis include the potential for self-repair/sharpening with Eldar psychoplastics, and perhaps a more optimistic view on cutting through armour even with far-future science. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukkiz Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 This is good video and idea to actually think about.In deathwatch rpg, you can actually have your chainsword to blow excess exchaust heat to create flaming chainsword, how nice is that? Also, if you think about the "armor penetration" of chainsword, reminder that the edges around the moving chain can be curved abit, like swords edge to help with that too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 The Astartes Chainsword has always been one of my favorite weapons in the 40K universe and I can't think of anything more terrifying of a weapon for someone to use on someone in a melee. The noise and the intimidation factor would just be the epitome of striking fear into your opponents heart IMO.Yep, absolutely. To hell with all your fancy sci-fi laser swords and electrified sticks, give me a humble chainsword any day, because nothing sticks with the traumatised survivors more than the shrieking howl of motorised teeth greedily tearing through the pulped meat that was their friends. Praise the Emperor. EDIT: Oops, sorry, forgot the no swearing rule! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaiel Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Man at arms made one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gj8pAN7Y7E Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven 19 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Yes, yes, Shad is doing 40k content. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5330956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurge Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I've always thought it wouldn't work for one simple reason: the way chainswords are modeled. You've got a chainsaw and two flat bars of metal on each side as wide as the chainsaw itself. I don't have a physics background but it looks like how deep you can cut is limited by the length of the teeth as those metal sides would prevent you from going all the way through. It wouldn't be able to penetrate armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Pretty sure when marines have chainsword fights, they go for armour joints, which is how they end up losing limbs/ hands etc. Also breastplates cracked/damaged by bolter fire would help when trying to go directly through armour with a chainsword. Everyone else though look out if you are on the receiving end of an Astartes chain weapon... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 A Chainsword duel would be amazing. There would probably be sparks and bits of shredded teeth going everywhere. In addition to that both chainswords would be pulling themselves out of the owner's hands unless they have an amazing grip on the weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Actually, blocking an enemy astartes chainsword by your chainswords edge would trash both weapons. Could be useful if you have a combat blade or pistol while you see your opponent lacks such a backup. I guess you would have to be desperate to do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 It would either ruin both chainswords or both chainswords would get propelled towards the opponent (because the teeth would draw each chainsword to the hilt) which would obviously not be a good thing either. Chainswords aren't dueling weapons, they exist to maim lesser armoured foes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ficinus Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Chainswords aren't dueling weapons unless you're Ciaphas Cain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Gaunt uses one in an early book in an honour dual.. gets his sword trashed and his belly opened and kills is opponet because they couldnt belive gaunt was still alive IIRC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356579-shadiversity-on-the-chainswords-realisticness/#findComment-5331358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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