Kaldoth Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Hey all! So I came into some extra cash recently and I've decided to start up a second army. Necrons have always piqued my interest, so I want to start collecting a force and see where it goes. I'm aiming for anywhere between 1500-2000 points as that is what most people play at my LGS. Issue is... I have no idea how to play Necrons, nor does anyone play them at my shop so I have no experience against them either! :P All that said, I figured I'd come to you guys and see if I could get some help coming up with a list/ purchase plan. So first up, I'm not a super competitive player by any means, so I'm not really worried about min/maxing or loading up on "the best" units available. I'll take a unit with cool rules and a good kit over spamming the same stuff over and over any day of the week. Secondly, I guess you could say I've got a bit of an aggressive play style. I like my shooting units pumping out shots on turn one, my assault units flying up the board turn one (if not getting some turn one charges :D ), and my tar pit units to be tying things up as soon as they need it. I guess mobility for me is probably the most important thing when I build an army, so I tend to pick units that can get where I need them quickly via base movement, strategems, etc. All that being said, after thumbing through the codex I think I've settled on Nephrekh as my Dynasty. The auto 6 advance seems perfect for the way I like to play and there is decebt access to assault weapons throughout the codex. Having picked a dynastic code, I've chosen a few units that I'd definitely like to hear your feedback about. Immortals and Warriors: I've got a healthy appreciation for troops in any army, and they both seem solid. My question is, how do they stack up side by side on the tabletop? Immortals seem like they'd be a better fit for Nephrekh with access to Tesla carbines, but they also seem like they'd be easily shot off the board with a max unit size of 10. A blob of 20 warriors would be much harder to get rid of, but I'd have to trade either shooting for mobility and vice versa. Canoptek Wraiths: How do these guys perform overall? With a 10 inch base move, that's 16 inches up the board turn one. They seem very survivable with their stat line and the 3++. Are these best ran in 6 man squads, or do min strength squads still perform well? This might wind up being my go to "tie up" unit unless anyone has a better suggestion? Tomb Stalker: Frankly I love the model and the stat line isn't anything to sniff at. Plus deep strike? Yes please! My only concern would be how many I would need to take to get my points back for it. How do they fare compared to other CC options we have? Tomb Blades: Mobile, hard to hit, Tesla carbines... They seem great for a Nephrekh list but they also look pricy, and it doesn't seem like they're worth the points investment if you're only going to take a small squad... HQ choices: Really I just plain old don't know what to do here. I have no clue what relics are worth it, if res orbs are worth the 35 points, what kind of combos can be pulled off, which units are best for a mobile playstyle, etc. Any kind of break down would be great. Anti-Tank: I noticed a pretty big lack in affordable anti tank for Necrons. Are there any options besides the doomsday ark? A maxxed out squad of destroyers with lord support looks nasty when combined with extermination protocols, but that's almost 400 points if I dedicate a babysitter lord, over 400 with a destroyer lord. That kind of investment in a 1500 point list is huge, and I'm guessing this would be an absolute fire magnet. Cheers for any help you fine folk can give! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Destroyers aren't great anti-armor, unfortunately. The number of shots is nice but when you need 5s to wound you can easily whiff. Anti armor is the big struggle for Necrons right now. DDAs are good but very swingy. That's the best we have. Triarch Stalkers can be useful, both in adding some high S shots and letting your DDAs reroll ones can be very valuable, especially when you roll crap for shots. I have used Lychguard with some success. Give them Scythes and use Disruption Field stratagem and they've got 20 S8 AP4 D2 attacks, which won't kill a knight but can wreck most tanks and such. They can for sure finish off something wounded by DDAs/Stalkers. They can be tough to get in, but Veil of Darkness with MWBD gets the job done. Also an option would be beaming them in with Anrakyr, so it's 30 attacks (but then they can't use MWBD the first turn for +1 Charge). When it comes to Immortals VS Warriors, my opponents never seem to struggle to kill either, so it doesn't make much different to me. Your meta might be different, though, because not everyone feels the same way, so I'd say try both. I love tomb blades, and the only reason I don't run more is that I hate building them. Compare a single Tomb Blade with shieldvanes to two Immortals - same shots, same wounds, better Toughness and Movement, PLUS hard to hit. Surely that costs a lot, right? Nope. That's ONE POINT more than the two Immortals. So I tend to use them instead of Gauss Immortals and load up on Tesla Immortals as troops. HQs are tough. We don't have awful HQs but I think they're expensive for what they give us. So I like to run them cheap, usually. Lords and Overlords usually get hyperphase swords which I'll upgrade when the list is done if I have points leftover. That said I LOVE bringing a Catacomb Command Barge with something like The Lightning Field and the Enduring Will warlord trait. Makes it very difficult to kill so you can smash it into all kinds of scary stuff safely. With Quantum Shielding the more damage it does, the better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatnik cryptek Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 C'tan can dish out mortal wounds, use generic c'tan on some vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Destroyers aren't great anti-armor, unfortunately. The number of shots is nice but when you need 5s to wound you can easily whiff. Anti armor is the big struggle for Necrons right now. DDAs are good but very swingy. That's the best we have. Triarch Stalkers can be useful, both in adding some high S shots and letting your DDAs reroll ones can be very valuable, especially when you roll crap for shots. How do stand alone Heavy Destroyers fare, or units of 3? I don't mind going in a little extra on Forgeworld units and the Acantharites don't look too bad. 10 points more than a Heavy Destroyer a pop for 2" of extra movement, 1 strength, 1 attack, and a -1 to shoot at it. The Tomb Sentinel doesn't look shabby either. I'm honestly not too concerned about Knights as they aren't too prevalent in my LGS in games at less than 2000 points. I love tomb blades, and the only reason I don't run more is that I hate building them. Compare a single Tomb Blade with shieldvanes to two Immortals - same shots, same wounds, better Toughness and Movement, PLUS hard to hit. Surely that costs a lot, right? Nope. That's ONE POINT more than the two Immortals. So I tend to use them instead of Gauss Immortals and load up on Tesla Immortals as troops. That's awesome! Appreciate the tip! I'll definitely be taking some then HQs are tough. We don't have awful HQs but I think they're expensive for what they give us. So I like to run them cheap, usually. Lords and Overlords usually get hyperphase swords which I'll upgrade when the list is done if I have points leftover. That said I LOVE bringing a Catacomb Command Barge with something like The Lightning Field and the Enduring Will warlord trait. Makes it very difficult to kill so you can smash it into all kinds of scary stuff safely. With Quantum Shielding the more damage it does, the better. Actually I had a question on the CCB. Do you pay for the barge and the overlord, or is it all rolled into one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 CCB is one model, unlike 6th ed where it was bought as a transport for a character. You only pay the points listed on the Barge’s page, as otherwise it would quickly reach 250+ points in cost for not enough gain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 If your interest is in a highly mobile army you're definitely onto something with the Nephrekh Code. Their Translocation Crypt stratagem lets you hide units like Destroyers off-table only to drop in on just about any unit you'd like given their 24" range. Something else to look into may be the Deceiver to relocate units as the game starts and the Veil of Darkness to transport units across the table. Together there's the potential of having 4-6 units up in the enemy's grill T1 while your Wraiths efficiently advance and use the Adaptive Subroutines stratagem for a go at a T1 charge. If I did it all over again, starting in this edition of the game, I would have built exclusively tesla Immortals for Troops. They are too good to deny by comparison to gauss or Warriors. I am happy to have 40 Warriors and they do real work for me but I wonder how much easier a go I would have it against Tyranids and Orks if I had tesla Immortals. Wraiths are excellent, they have preformed well for me in every game I've used them in. Watch out for the Chaos spell that removes invulnerable saves and mortal wounds. Max size units is a mantra I find myself repeating as I build my army lists and I've always regretted when I took less than six. Personally I play mine as Novokh for the juicy re-rolls in combat but Nephrekh has always tempted me. For HQ choices I'd say an Overlord is critical for tesla weaponry, and a Lord complements that nicely. Doomsday Arks are decent anti armour though swingy with random shots, same goes for Doom Scythes. Take three of either, though the DDAs would require another HQ in a Spearhead for that CP where the Scythes could be taken alone in an Air Wing Detachment, and you have real threat potential. I love my Destroyers, they take care of business for me. Things with invulnerable saves ultimately ruin my day but anything without gets wasted. I no longer play them with character accompaniment unless it happens naturally in-game preferring to just use the Extermination Protocols stratagem for full re-rolls. They typically put out a respectable number of wounds even when rolling a 5+. I've found the key is to double up the weapons just like how our enemies have to do to us to stop Reanimation Protocols. My Destroyers will hit a target, then my Doom Scythe or DDA will take next crack. Armour is still our toughest matchup I think. I don't have any experience with the other units, but I hope this gets some thoughts stirring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 *snip* Appreciate the feedback I'm kind of torn on running a single Wraith unit of six vs two units of three. The benefits of running six is obviously survivability, but I also like making my opponent split their fire with a lot of target saturation. I get that Necrons aren't a swarm army, but with the build I have in mind, I think I may be able to make it work... which brings me to this: Test list number one! Battalion Detachment - Nephrekh HQ: Necron Overlord - 94 Staff of Light Lord - 75 Staff of Light Troops: 10 Immortals - 150 Tesla Carbines 10 Immortals - 150 Tesla Carbines 10 Immortals - 150 Tesla Carbines Fast Attack: 5 Tomb Blades - 155 Gauss Blasters Shieldvanes 5 Tomb Blades - 155 Gauss Blasters Shieldvanes 3 Canoptek Wraiths - 144 Outrider Detachment- Nephrekh HQ: Cryptek - 75 Staff of Light Canoptek Cloak Fast Attack: 3 Canoptek Wraiths - 144 9 Canoptek Scarabs - 117 9 Canoptek Scarabs - 117 1 Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - 150 Gloom Prism 1 Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - 150 Gloom Prism 1 Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - 145 Total: 1971 pts So, after looking at how I like to play vs the issues I've found with dealing with heavies, I figure there are two ways to deal with the anti-armor problem that Necrons have: 1. Load up on the best anti-tank units (Arks) and hope to down enemy armor before they kill mine. 2. Maneuver to tie up enemy shooting instead of soaking their shots. So, given my predisposition towards high mobility, I went with option two. Will it work? No clue But sitting back and shooting away at things just isn't my style. Also given that Necrons seem like they just aren't outfitted well for anti-tank, I figure why bother fighting a losing battle by going shot for shot when I can deny enemy shooting outright? I'd much rather attempt to control the opponent's shooting while maneuvering in for a kill which is why I decided on a buttload of scarabs and three tomb sentinels. The scarabs have a very impressive 16" move on turn one and can also benefit from Adaptive Subroutines and Translocation Crypt. Combine that with the Tomb Sentinel turn one deep strike and I figure I've got a good shot at tying up 1-2 heavy threats with the scarabs while the Wraiths move up and the Sentinels tunnel in. The Sentinels also have the living metal special rule, so a canoptek cloak cryptek means highly mobile wound regen where I need it. My only doubt (as mentioned above) is whether or not I should split my scarabs and wraiths into two 9 strong scarab units and two 3 man wraith units, or three 6 strong scarab units and one 6 man wraith unit. The rest of the list seems self explanatory: Immortals act as objective grabbers with overlord and lord support, tomb blades move in and shoot what needs shooting. So, did I do it right? I still have 29 points to fill, and I can definitely drop the staffs on the HQ choices if need be. I'm still not sure what to do as far as relics and equipment on the HQ choices go... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I would combine the wraiths. One block is harder to remove. And if you take heavy losses they benefit from fhe RP stratagem. I run 2 scarab squads between 4-5 models. They are good at screening and tying up things, but their damage output and survivability is low. I’d also consider turning that outrider detachment into Novokh. Those units are all fast moving CC specialists who will benefit more from the rerolls to hit and the fight again stratagem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 I would combine the wraiths. One block is harder to remove. And if you take heavy losses they benefit from fhe RP stratagem. I run 2 scarab squads between 4-5 models. They are good at screening and tying up things, but their damage output and survivability is low. I’d also consider turning that outrider detachment into Novokh. Those units are all fast moving CC specialists who will benefit more from the rerolls to hit and the fight again stratagem. Seems to be a general consensus among Necron players that taking maxxed squads of Wraiths is the best way to go, so I think I'll follow suit ^_^ My only concern with making the Outrider detachment Novokh is the inability to tie up units with the Scarabs. The Scarabs aren't meant to damage in assault so much as keep other units from unleashing whatever nasty stuff they have on me. The Sentinels will need their CC attacks to follow up with the initial volley they bring, but that is still 3d6 shots from all three of them when they arrive. I don't know if the extra attacks from Novokh outweigh the ability for a possible turn one assault from the Scarabs, and then a turn 2 fall back so the Sentinels can shoot and then charge in Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Have you considered playing your Sentinels with the Sautekh Code? It would mean a bit of a rethink of your list but it jives with your forward motion tactics and being able to shoot at full potential with the Sentinels when they arrive could be critical since they have Heavy weapons. Maybe you could combine the Wraith units and put them and the Scarabs in the Battalion Detachment so they remain Nephrekh while moving the Tomb Blades into the now Sautekh Outrider Detachment, that way your CloakTek can buff their RP rolls until you can reconnect with the Sentinels and start repairing damage there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5331846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Have you considered playing your Sentinels with the Sautekh Code? It would mean a bit of a rethink of your list but it jives with your forward motion tactics and being able to shoot at full potential with the Sentinels when they arrive could be critical since they have Heavy weapons. Maybe you could combine the Wraith units and put them and the Scarabs in the Battalion Detachment so they remain Nephrekh while moving the Tomb Blades into the now Sautekh Outrider Detachment, that way your CloakTek can buff their RP rolls until you can reconnect with the Sentinels and start repairing damage there. That's actually an excellent idea After taking that into consideration, I've shifted my list around and I think I have finalized it! If you guys wanna check it out I'll spoiler tag it below. Thank you all so much for the help I can't wait to get cracking on this project of mine. Necrons 2000 points Battalion Detachment - Nephrekh HQ: Cryptek - 85 Relic - The Solar Staff Canoptek Cloak Catacomb Command Barge - 146 (Warlord - Skin of Living Gold) War Scythe Tesla Cannon Relic - Lightning Field Troops: 10 Immortals - 150 Tesla Carbines 10 Immortals - 150 Tesla Carbines 10 Immortals - 150 Tesla Carbines Fast Attack: 6 Canoptek Wraiths - 288 9 Canoptek Scarabs - 117 9 Canoptek Scarabs - 117 Outrider Detachment - Sautekh HQ: Lord - 68 Hyperphase Sword Fast Attack: 1 Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - 150 Gloom Prism 1 Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - 150 Gloom Prism 1 Canoptek Tomb Sentinel - 150 Gloom Prism 9 Tomb Blades - 279 Gauss Blasters Shieldvanes Total: 2000 pts, 8 CP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5332011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 That Lord better be quick on his feet :lol: List looks solid, a fine start to a Legion for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356605-soooo-how-do-i-necrons/#findComment-5332021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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