Thunderforge Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 This thread is to keep track of my freshly started (but long conceived) Imperial Guard army, the Praetorian 31st Heavy Infantry, informally known as ‘the Levellers’.Under the command of Lord Brigadier Sir Montgomery Roderick Hogmanay Grenfield (Duke of Praetor, Knight of the Red Lance, etc, etc).The army is primarily an infantry army, backed up with artillery squads and cavalry (the ‘Red Lancers’ - nothing ‘rough’ about our riders!)Having played Fantasy Dwarfs for many many years I’ve never been worried about winning, just playing in a fluffy way and usually losing stubbornly. Perfect for a dress uniformed Guard regiment!I’ve ordered some pith helm’d heads and epaulets from... somewhere on the internet, as well as some Perry Miniatures cavalry. Tanks will be kept to a minimum, in favour of firing lines of lasguns. And none of those damn dirty abhumans fouling up the place.I want to give officers things like cups of tea, put gold rope onto tanks, and include some fun conversions to add character. Please post some suggestions!Ruleswise I assume most Praetorian players use Mordian doctrines? I’ll post my intended army list shortly, and some photos once I’ve got some figures finished. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 23, 2019 Author Share Posted June 23, 2019 This is a provisional list based on what I want to field, but with no prior knowledge of how it will perform. I’ll post a revised list after I’ve changed my mind.HQCompany Commander Lord Brigadier Sir GrenfieldLas pistol, combat weapon4x VeteransLasguns, box, regimental standardDamn Ministorum PriestvanillaLord CommissarJudge-Advocate Ullen Neville Fairfate Bolt Pistol, chainswordTROOPSVeteran Squad Higgs-Bosunvox, 3x sniper riflesPlatoon ‘Bourneville’Captain Bourneville Squadvox, lasgunsSquad Alphavox, krak grenadesSquad Bvox, krak grenadesHeavy weapon squad3x AutocannonFASTRough Riders7x Riders, power sword, meltagunRoughRiders7x Riders, power sword, meltagunHEAVYLeman Russ Punisher ‘Lady Sybil’Heavy Bolter sponsonsTOTAL 801ptsNotes: I’ll probably add another platoon of lasguns to bring it up to the thousand points.I would prefer to give my platoon troops lasguns and keep the heavy weapons in squads of their own. I like autocannon, but would lascannon be more useful in this undergunned army?Cavalry is in two units of seven because the box I’ve ordered is 14, I figured meltaguns because they will hopefully get close to things. Would three units of five be more flexible or more squishy?Not sure what to do with the Priest or Commissar but added them because the Departmento Munitorum would have sent them.Lady Sybil is mostly there as an enemy fire distraction.Recommendations on war gear would be great! (ie are vox casters worth it, should the commander dust off his ceremonial carapace armour, or are expendable conscripts more useful than veterans?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Autocannons are good all rounders, But lascannons are fancy and clean if your going for a fluffy side of things. If you are sticking to a small amount of officers, voxs would be useful to spread the orders Plasma works better than Meltaguns in most circumstances IMO but might be better on rough riders with their speed. 2 units of 7 would work well I think. I agree that a priest and a commy are fluffy, priest is just useful as a deterrent to charge your guardsmen and they look cool! a Commy is cheap at 16pts and the extra gun and punch in CC is always helpful. P.s. WIP pics please and MORE infantry is needed! (always more) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 You've got a great plan looking forward to seeing it come together :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Notes: I’ll probably add another platoon of lasguns to bring it up to the thousand points. I would prefer to give my platoon troops lasguns and keep the heavy weapons in squads of their own. I like autocannon, but would lascannon be more useful in this undergunned army? Cavalry is in two units of seven because the box I’ve ordered is 14, I figured meltaguns because they will hopefully get close to things. Would three units of five be more flexible or more squishy? Not sure what to do with the Priest or Commissar but added them because the Departmento Munitorum would have sent them. Lady Sybil is mostly there as an enemy fire distraction. Recommendations on war gear would be great! (ie are vox casters worth it, should the commander dust off his ceremonial carapace armour, or are expendable conscripts more useful than veterans?) Regarding the choice between having heavy weapons embedded in squads, or as separate heavy support choices, I'd suggest that you have them as separate choices for the following reasons: First rank fire! Second rank fire! benefits from having more lasguns in the squad. If you're using Mordian rules, you'll benefit from lining up those lovely blocks of infantry; and having non-standard bases in your squads will mess up the look. With few tanks, you're not pressed for space in your Heavy Support slots. Rough Riders are pretty squishy anyway, so you don't want to lose any to morale. My suggestion would be to take five-strong squads if possible. I've always included vox-casters in my forces, and they're actually fairly useful in this edition. As a minor point, being able to Fire on my position is a very handy way to thin out attackers – though I'm not convinced it's very Praetorian! Your officers are important, so I'd recommend giving them the protection they need. Your men might have an aversion to abhumans, but I think an ogryn bodyguard would be fitting for this army, both thematically and in practical terms. Having some in-universe tension between the snobby Praetorians and their 'allied' abhumans is a good way to explore the theme, I think. Regarding conscripts and the like, I think you'll rarely go wrong with standard infantry squads. For thematic reasons, you might consider add in some conscripts to represent local PDF levies? I'd recommand against going too real-world, but these would be a good nod to the 'Colonial British in Space' feel, while giving you access to other figures. Otherwise, I recommend sticking to your Praetorian soldiers being uniformly well-organised standard infantry squads. On a similar vein, you might consider bringing in specialists through different regiments – kilted Highlanders, Gurkhas or sharpshooters, perhaps? – using veteran rules. With that said, it's easy to overdo the Colonial British in Space idea – and, in my opinion, important that the theme is affectionate and pulpy. Just as Space Marines are best when the theme is subtle and complex, so remember that Praetorians have their own background quite distinct from Victorian Britain. Have fun with the Jules Verne/Neo-Victorian steampunk angle as well as the Zulu ideas. You might consider alien mounts for some Rough Riders (perhaps a way to introduce/differentiate Death Korps of Krieg Death Riders rules? That'd let you have an all-mounted detachment of artistocratic cavalrymen) and that sort of thing. Having some abhumans and other Imperial Guard specialists, as mentioned above, would also let you play around with this – Ratlings, ogryns, priests, enginseers and psykers are all important parts of the Imperial Guard war machine – whether the Praetorians like it or not! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 This is all great feedback guys, thank you!! Sadly the only things I’ve got that I can photograph are ten pairs of legs and a scratch built command tent, but once my orders arrive I can get things moving. I might mount ‘vox boxes’ on a separate base and then I can add them to a squad or leave them out if I need to save points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Welcome to the barracks Thunder!I can't wait to see how this army turn outs! :tu:I am slightly confused, based on your list here, have you not played in a while or have you organised this list in a thematic sense? Mainly because the list seems to follows the old 7th ed guard codex and FoC, 8th is a completely different beast (Priests aren't HQ's, platoons no longer exist and Vet's are elite choices).As for doctrines, Mordians would seemingly be the obvious choice based on aesthetics. However depending on how you want to interpret the lore of the regiment Cadians and Vostroyans could be good ones too. Cadians, because they're well trained and drilled soldiers, or Vostroyans because they're accuracy is second to none the can pick off targets are great distances. When can we expect to see some finished mini's :D ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Hmm, does it say anywhere in the codex which version it is? I’m borrowing it from a mate and just assumed it was the latest version! Thanks for pointing that out, could have been embarrassing! I’ll post a photo of my legs and tent tomorrow, maybe it will encourage me to keep the pace up. I’ve got some Ogres I could kit-bash into Ogryns, but at the moment I just don’t have an angle for them... Praetorian colours? Attached from another regiment? I’ll think on that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Hmm, does it say anywhere in the codex which version it is? I’m borrowing it from a mate and just assumed it was the latest version! Thanks for pointing that out, could have been embarrassing! I’ll post a photo of my legs and tent tomorrow, maybe it will encourage me to keep the pace up. I’ve got some Ogres I could kit-bash into Ogryns, but at the moment I just don’t have an angle for them... Praetorian colours? Attached from another regiment? I’ll think on that. Check the cover. The 7th Edition codex looks like this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2AIa5Vzd-KM/U1E5la2KsvI/AAAAAAAAAxc/s-CVSRhXoro/s1600/Astra-Militarum1.jpg The 8th Edition looks like this: Aside from the different cover design, the 8th edition one also doesn't have Astra Militarum in an embossed manner Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 You only see how badly painted your figures are when you photograph them! This squad will have lasguns and little else. The sergeant will have a laspistol and swagger stick, I like the idea of my troops being put against daemons and aliens with such weapons! I’m in the situation where I don’t want to add the torsos until I’ve added the arms, and I don’t want to add the arms until I’ve got the epaulets and heads to position. Edit: Oh yes, the pistol is under coated in white but with an Oil of Nuln wash, I was going to go for wooden or black guns, but this ivory finish looks quite good. I’ll add the metal parts and see how I feel. And yes my codex is seventh edition, blast! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Things need to be complete before they really look good ;) I like the ivory finish too, good colours they will work well together :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5336978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 The Perry Miniatures cavalry box arrived yesterday, so I have five horsies based and undercoated. For my bases I’m working like this; 1) PVA a few pieces of cat litter for ‘big’ rocks 2) PVA a mix of gravelly sand to fill in the gaps 3) a few drips of superglue around the edges to firm it all up 4) Thinned down coat of Dulux ‘county cream’ masonry paint 5) Wash of Dryad Dark 6) add some static flock and clumps of grass I think it looks quite good myself, and that’s all that matters. I’ll get some colour on the horsies tonight and post some pics. Probably going to use toothpicks for the spears, does anyone have a good idea for making blast charge spear-heads? I thought maybe to use the rebreather pipes off the command sprue, but what to make the blade? According to the internet the Deathriders rules give much more powerful cavalry than Rough Rider rules, but I think I’ll have to stick with RR rules as these aren’t the biggest models around!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5337559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 Sergeant Luminous and the Galloping Horse Guard! I want to give the cavalry white harness and strapping, so I painted it white, and instantly regretted it! The next one I’ll layer up to white from tan. Fool! To keep me in the mood I’ve been listening to Professor Elemental and reading Harry Flashman novels. (Both characters might one day feature in my army!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5338081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Looking good. I had the same codex issue, my wife was going to pick it up as I had to work. I showed her the same two pictures. Layer up to white from grey. Mechanicus standard grey, celestia grey, white scar highlight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5338724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Humph! - looks like the 8th Codex doesn't have Rough Riders, they are published in the Index Imperial. Does anybody have a scan of that page? I begrudge having to pay another £15 for rule that should be in the Codex. Can't seem to find it on scr*bd either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5338767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 GW dropped rules for models that arent or are no longer available from codexes this edition. Battlescribe should have most the info you need for them. Could be an issue if you don't have the actual rules for a tournament. You might be able to get a cheap 2nd hand index. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5338772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Bindoff Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 GW dropped rules for models that arent or are no longer available from codexes this edition. Battlescribe should have most the info you need for them. Could be an issue if you don't have the actual rules for a tournament. You might be able to get a cheap 2nd hand index. Really never want to meet the player who calls out the rough rider rules as overpowered and demands to see them in print.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5338846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Haha, no indeed! Luckily I’ll be playing with friends. I’ve found this Rough Rider stats on google images so all good now. I’ll look at Battlescribe this weekend. I swear some colours are jinxed, I’ve never had any luck with yellow. I tried to add some yellow to the sergeant’s epaulets (Brass>Gold>Gold&Yellow drybrush) but my Tamiya Yellow has “dried without drying”. Ie bits of soft yellow goo in a clear fluid. And every GW yellow I’ve had has been ‘gummy’, that’s the only way I can explain it. Probably why I’ve never collected Imperial Fists! Anyone recommend a nice chalky textured yellow? I try not to be a GW basher but removing troop types from a new edition codex because the figures are no longer sold (but not necessarily squatted from the fluff) is a bit of a snub to long time players who had bought and used them in previous versions. I mean, what if you turned up to play in store one day and they said “you can’t use those figures, because Cadia was destroyed by Chaos”?! Sorry, my End Times ptsd must be acting up, grump over! :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5338910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Bindoff Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I mean it’s possible they were left out because we’re going to be blindsided by the eventual release of Codex: Rough Riders. Or Horsus Militarum. This post has reminded me that I want to convert some of those Genestealer bike dudes into outriders for my army. I can’t wait to see yours finished. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I mean it’s possible they were left out because we’re going to be blindsided by the eventual release of Codex: Rough Riders. Or Horsus Militarum. This post has reminded me that I want to convert some of those Genestealer bike dudes into outriders for my army. I can’t wait to see yours finished. Making GSC bikes into rough riders is something I have wanted to do for a while now! If you do it, don't forget pictured! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 I always wondered why the Guard never had bikes, especially as every other army had them. Okay apart from Tyranids, but they have flyers. Hmm, maybe my priest should have some flyers, to hand out to the chaos cultists... Anyway, new army list with 8th Codex, please tell me if I’ve calculated incorrectly! Mordian Doctrine HQ Company Command Lord Grenfield Laspistol, frags, power sword, refractor field Order of the Iron Star Command Squad Vox, regimental standard Ogryn Bodyguard (34, 34, 55)/ (123) ELITE Platoon Commander Cadbury Laspistol, frags, chainsword, refractor field Command Squad Cadbury Vox, regimental standard (54) Platoon Commander Bourneville as above (incl Command Squad) (54) N.B. - do Command Squads full up an Elite slot? Veteran Squad Tetley Lasguns, vox, (65) Priest Laspistol, krak, frag, chainsword, pamphlets (35) Commissar Bolt pistol (31) TROOPS 4x Infantry Squad Sergeant -laspistol & chainsword Vox (4x 45)/(180) FAST ATTACK 2x Rough Rider Squads Laspistols, chainswords, lances, 2x meltaguns (??) HEAVY Heavy Weapons Squad Bourbon 3x Autocannon (63) Leman Russ Punisher ‘Lady Sybil’ Gatling Cannon, hull heavy bolter (150) What’s the deal with the Platoon Standard, it looks like only the Tempestus command squad can take it?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Command squads are a separate elites choice as are ogryn bodyguards but a battalion has like 8 odd elite slots now for this sort of reason. You need 2 HQs and 3 troops for a legal battalion so you have a patrol. To fix this promote the commissar for a lord commissar or the leman russ into a commander, to be honest I don't see the point in lower leadership commissars in general. Veterans with just lasguns aren't very popular. If you want them for theme reasons maybe try adding triple grenade launchers for a little cheap extra firepower? BS3+ heavy weapons are good too. Heavy weapon teams on their own are a target unless they're mortars. Better to put them in squads. Platoon Standard is just the Tempestus name for a Regiment standard now. Victoria miniatures sell explosive lances, https://victoriaminiatures.com/products/rough-rider-arms-x5 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Few pointers: Comissars are now 15 points base and lord comissars 30 points base (before equipment) since they have been chapter approved and faqed so many times that the only thing that is correct in the book is their profile, their moral rule now works as 'you can kill 1 guy and re-roll the result' and use their LD in 6" bubble. Command squads do indeed take up an extra elite slot and you can have a maximum of 1 per officer Rough riders are in the index and cost 50 point base before meltaguns. All in all, there have been a fair few points changes since the army book came out so I would try and get a hold of the latest chapter approved which covers them all. Or use battlescribe which is an army building app with all the points, rules and options contained within it. Hope that helps! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 List building is same but different in 8th as the FoC has completely changed. If you have a smartphone or PC worth downloading Battlescribe to help as it also has the most recent points updates from Chapter Approved. Best part is it's free :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Today’s task, between painting things, was to try making a Leman Russ out of cardboard. And then I realised the printouts to work from were at work, so I made something else instead. + + + A letter of complaint has been sent to the Departmento Munitorum concerning the poor build quality and condition of the defensive bulwark provided. Sergeant Mandrake is pictured herewith the offending article. + + + Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356756-31st-praetorian-heavy-infantry-%E2%80%98the-levellers%E2%80%99/#findComment-5339789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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