darkseren1ty Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Ok, sorry up front for this noob question but... if I include daemons like.. bloodletters in a world eaters battalion, what do I lose and am I still battleforged? I assume I lose access to my legion trait and the free relic. But can I still pick a warlord trait from the CSM dex? Can I use CSM strategems? Can I purchase relics with command points? I know it’s silly to be asking this several years into 8th but I’ve always fielded pure detachments, but for the first time I’ve been wondering if it might be easier to field a mixed one. Also, say for example I field a mixed battalion of world eaters with bloodletters and skarbrand, and another patrol detachment of pure world eaters, do I get access to the relic and strategems of the world eaters in the patrol detachment? And can the aura effects be used on the mixed battalion detachment? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephaniah Adriyen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I'm no authority on how this works at all (check my Fallen thread for an example of how uninformed I can be on some things) but as far as I can tell, that's just a Khorne detachment. Chaos Lord auras don't work on Skarbrand, and regular Bloodthirster auras don't work on Chaos Lords (but Skarbrand's aura works on Chaos Lords because of how it's worded). You do lose your Legion Trait. You lose access to both Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines stratagems because you have no pure detachments. (However, if you include, say, an auxiliary support of Skarbrand and nothing else, you gain access to Khorne Daemons stratagems.) The free relic is based on your Warlord. For example, if you have an Imperium detachment with a <CHAPTER> CAPTAIN in charge and all Imperial Guard for everything else, you get a Space Marine relic. This can only be taken by a <CHAPTER> CHARACTER, however. You actually can't pay for extra relics if you run mixed detachments, because that's a stratagem, and you have to have a faction for the stratagem. For the record, if you run a mixed CSM detachment (say, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and Black Legion all in one detachment) you get your CSM Stratagems, you get your CSM artifacts, but you still don't get auras working properly (auras are keyed to <LEGION> for the most part) and you don't get Legion Stratagems (Iron Within, Iron Without, for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 You lose everything because you've got a chaos battalion not a chaos space marines one. The big FAQ makes mixing daemons and marines in the same detachments illegal in matched play unless they have another faction keyword in common other than chaos (usually a god one) so it doesn't really matter. If you have at least one detachment of pure heretic astartes (excluding Thousand Sons and Death Guard) you have access to chaos space marine stratagems and can use them on units in other detachments. You get the free relic if your warlord is a chaos space marine character and there's no requirement to unlock warlord traits. No Chaos Space Marine detachment it required so its actually possible to have access to a single chaos relic but not the chaos stratagems. Purchasing relics with command points is a stratagem so you need stratagem access from having the right detachment. For the record, if you run a mixed CSM detachment (say, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and Black Legion all in one detachment) you get your CSM Stratagems, you get your CSM artifacts, but you still don't get auras working properly (auras are keyed to <LEGION> for the most part) and you don't get Legion Stratagems (Iron Within, Iron Without, for example). Unlike legion traits there's nothing required to access legion stratagems which are just normal chaos space marine stratagems with target limitations. The new Black Legion stratagems from Vigilus Ablaze are an exception to this, they need a Black Legion detachment. Similarly the Vigilus Ablaze renegade stratagems need a renegades detachment. (However, if you include, say, an auxiliary support of Skarbrand and nothing else, you gain access to Khorne Daemons stratagems.) Auxiliary support detachments are specifically noted as not unlocking stratagems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephaniah Adriyen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Oh, I thought... okay, I misread. I read it as "including", as if to reaffirm. That makes more sense. Alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 But an auxiliary daemon detachment still gives a locus (I.e locus of rage for khorne), correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephaniah Adriyen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Should, yeah, since it's just a Relic for Daemons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1) to create a mixed Astartes/Daemons detachment, you need a common faction keyword. Per the Battle Brothers rule, CHAOS is not valid. Theoretically any would work, but in practice, I'm pretty sure this leaves us with the 4 god Faction Keywords. 2) You lose Despoilers of the Galaxy (obsec on CSM troops) as well as the Daemon/DG/TS equivalent. 3) You lose Legion Traits as well as renegade traits and the DG/TS equivalent. 4) You lose Demonic Loci. 5) You lose access to faction strats 6) If you add another detachment (including auxilaries) that is purely DAEMONS or <LEGION> (same legion) those units gain Legion Traits or Demonic Loci. 7) You can use Warlord traits from either. 8) Whichever faction your Warlord is from, you get 1 relic from that Faction. *Note: the FAQ states that a Daemon relic must be given to a character with the DAEMON faction and not just keyword. 9) The wording on Renegades rules is garbage. Some parts say you need a whole Renegades army to use and some parts say you need a whole Renegade dettachment, some just say someone needs the keyword on 1 model. There are layers that conflict with reason, but by RAW you get no rules at all for them unless a whole dettachment is renegades and no renegade traits unless your whole army is Renegades. 10) You get access to faction strats if you include another detachment for that faction, which you can use on any appropriate target regardless of detachment. Fortification Network dettachments do grant access to faction strats. You do not get access to Strategems for an auxiliary support detachment. If you can split them into separate factions, it's always better to do so. It may even be better to summon. Also, note that Be'lakor can ONLY be in a DAEMONS detachment with the Batle Brothers Rules, and by FAQ, can not be summoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazSexington Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 You lose everything because you've got a chaos battalion not a chaos space marines one. As mentioned by Doom Herald, not necessarily. You make a <Khorne> Detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Honestly, the absolute best way to do it is to take a pure CSM army and just summon in your daemons using reinforcement points. You get all your Legion Traits and associates stuff, and you get your daemons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McElMcNinja Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Currently I am running 3 detachachments all with the Nurgle key word. 1 is a Death Guard Outrider, 1 is a CSM Vanguard, and 1 is a Daemon Battalion. They all have Nurgle Daemons in them so they can share certain abilities and auras for some synergy. For instance my Death Guard DP allows rerolls of 1's to hit for both DG and Nurgle Daemons and my Poxbringer adds +1S to Nurgle Daemons. While my Greater Possessed only affect my CSM Possessed, they still benefit from the other 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Currently I am running 3 detachachments all with the Nurgle key word. 1 is a Death Guard Outrider, 1 is a CSM Vanguard, and 1 is a Daemon Battalion. They all have Nurgle Daemons in them so they can share certain abilities and auras for some synergy. For instance my Death Guard DP allows rerolls of 1's to hit for both DG and Nurgle Daemons and my Poxbringer adds +1S to Nurgle Daemons. While my Greater Possessed only affect my CSM Possessed, they still benefit from the other 2. Sounds interesting. What’s your list McEl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McElMcNinja Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Outrider Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [49 PL, 921pts, 1CP] + HQ + Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings + Fast Attack + Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe + Heavy Support + Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 289pts]: 2x Butcher cannon array, 2x Hellflamer Battalion Detachment (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 416pts, 5CP] Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle + HQ + Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Miasma of Pestilence Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Virulent Blessing + Troops + Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms Plaguebearers [12 PL, 168pts]: 23x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden Vanguard Detachment (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [36 PL, 662pts, 1CP] Legion: Renegade Chapters + HQ + Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 122pts]: Combi-bolter, Diabolic Strength, Force stave, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime + Elites + Greater Possessed [8 PL, 140pts] . Greater Possessed: Mark of Nurgle . Greater Possessed: Mark of Nurgle Helbrute [6 PL, 100pts]: Helbrute fist, Helbrute fist, Mark of Nurgle Possessed [15 PL, 300pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 15x Possessed Total: [111 PL, 1,999pts, 10CP] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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