Stalker-Pattern Intercessors

[SyNidus]

So what's the story with Stalker-Pattern Intercessors? How have they been performing for you? I've been thinking of getting a 10 man squad and sitting back and shooting with the high AP weapons.

[Panzer]

Never used them and probably never will now with Bolter Discipline Bolt rifles, Eliminators and Suppressors as alternatives.

[MajorNese]

Back in the day, they were okay-ish for a squad of tougher-than-tacs backfield objective campers, to still contribute some shots despite range. Still single-shot single-damage S4, so you won't wound well enough to make a significant dent in anything beyond T3, and not points-effective to boot (5 shots for 85p).

 

Now Eliminators do the same just a lot better (more useful shooting and weathering return fire) if it's firepower and sniper versatility you're after. Bolter discipline makes regular Intercessors a lot better at cheap-and-tough objective camping, chances are they'll still have targets in range. Now there's absolutely no reason to use the stalkers any more.

[Orange Knight]

Due to the Bolter discipline rule, in conjunction with the Veteran detachment and stratagems, the regular Bolt rifle is by far the best option.

[Lemondish]

Due to the Bolter discipline rule, in conjunction with the Veteran detachment and stratagems, the regular Bolt rifle is by far the best option.

Sad, but true.

[SyNidus]

Ah, alright, thanks folks. I'll be using the normal bolt rifles.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Would there be any worth in a Stalker-armed Lieutenant to boost the Eliminators?

[War Angel]

Would there be any worth in a Stalker-armed Lieutenant to boost the Eliminators?

I tried this with my hellblasters, because I thought the extra range would be useful, and it really isn’t. Most of the time the 6 inches never maters.

[Lemondish]

Would there be any worth in a Stalker-armed Lieutenant to boost the Eliminators?

It's 1 extra point to fire 1 less shot but with 12" more range and -2 AP. It isn't necessarily a bad way to spend 1 point since it shares the range of the Eliminator's rifles so he can contribute at the same max range, but it's not like he can target characters so he'll essentially be firing at things the auto might be in range for with double the shots. It's ultimately one single model shooting though, so the trade off is so miniscule so analyzing it this deeply really isn't all that helpful I think lol

 

I have one in the collection simply because I picked up the special limited edition one with the half helmet. I intend to bling up his rifle a bit as well to stand in for Duty's Burden.

 

I tried this with my hellblasters, because I thought the extra range would be useful, and it really isn’t. Most of the time the 6 inches never maters.

For the Lt it is 12" as the auto is 24" and the stalker 36".

[Dracos]

Another example of why the Codex needs tweaked. Too many Astartes units and rules have been found to be be point ineffective, outdated or actually less than usefully competitive in a less than competitive Codex.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I only ask because I've got the Ultramarine Lieutenant model from Conquest that I've converted up to have a Stalker rifle and bolt pistol, instead of the power sword. I mean, no big deal if it wasn't the most competitive option, as I'm not a tournament player, etc, just making sure it wasn't total garbage.

[Lemondish]

I only ask because I've got the Ultramarine Lieutenant model from Conquest that I've converted up to have a Stalker rifle and bolt pistol, instead of the power sword. I mean, no big deal if it wasn't the most competitive option, as I'm not a tournament player, etc, just making sure it wasn't total garbage.

It probably isn't the most competitive option, but I'd say it's totally fine and it isn't anywhere close to gimping yourself if you're babysitting a long range backfield unit anyway.

[Dracos]

My bad man just wishing GW would give us some transparency on when we could expect a revamp of what is officially they oldest and really out of date Codex. Before Bolter Discipline I thought it was to expensive but it had a place in the right army build. Now it seems to have less, which blows because I like keeping my HQs cheap. (anyone remember having a Sgt[?] serve as your HQ for 30ish points?)

[Lemondish]

I would certainly love to see both the auto and the stalker gain a bit more power and purpose now that Bolter Discipline has improved the baseline capability of the standard rifle. I feel the same about those frankly awesome looking heavy Plasma Incinerators on the Hellblasters as well. 

 

But from a Primaris Lt. perspective, I don't think it matters very much - the extra range and his role as a backfield babysitter fits the weapon choice pretty well. He's not the type of unit that is there to blast away with a ton of shots anyway. 

 

But for now, aside from adding the models to your collection for the hobby of it, or in case the weapon does get tweaked in the future, you would be making a weak choice by equipping a squad of Intercessors with it. Aside from that, it's a solid pick on characters based on their intended use.

[CCE1981]

The heavy versions should be base damage 2. In most situations the bolt rifle would be better, but there would be niche situations where the Stalker would be better. This would make it a nice if low used alternative.

[Preliminary Bombardment]

I watched a recent battle report by Winters SEO, his opponent brought all stalkers against orks and they were pretty useless. More weight of fire would have been much more useful.

 

Having said that I always take one in my Primaris Kill Team, it's fairly situational but has been handy against larger targets like Tyranid Warriors.

[MajorNese]

Stalkers right now just have nothing speaking for them - those 6" won't cut it, and one point of AP is nothing compared to twice the number of shots, which already have AP-1.

If stalkers were S5 and longer ranged, it might be a bit different, but right now taking stalkers just halves your number of shots. But GW won't improve them, since that would get into Eliminators territory.

 

But for a single Lt. staying back, it's absolutely okay, better than not being in range most game (the other weapons being 24" or less). Just taking entire squads is useless right now.

[Subtleknife]

Yeah I think they need a tweak because atm the standard bolt rifle is much better. Maybe making it str 5 would make it a slightly harder choice.

[Panzer]

The heavy versions should be base damage 2. In most situations the bolt rifle would be better, but there would be niche situations where the Stalker would be better. This would make it a nice if low used alternative.

 

I still wouldn't use them with D2. Keep in mind that Bolters with Bolter discipline have 2 shots at 30" if they don't move (you wouldn't move your Stalker Intercessors either). 2 shots > 2 damage since it's the same total damage output but more reliable to do any damage at all due more rolled dice. The only difference is +6" and better AP but they trade that for being less flexible.

[CCE1981]

 

 

The heavy versions should be base damage 2. In most situations the bolt rifle would be better, but there would be niche situations where the Stalker would be better. This would make it a nice if low used alternative.

I still wouldn't use them with D2. Keep in mind that Bolters with Bolter discipline have 2 shots at 30" if they don't move (you wouldn't move your Stalker Intercessors either). 2 shots > 2 damage since it's the same total damage output but more reliable to do any damage at all due more rolled dice. The only difference is +6" and better AP but they trade that for being less flexible.

I agree they wouldn’t be taken en-masse. A single squad would be able still get a lot of work.

[The Unseen]

If they were heavy 2, with the 6" additional range and additional AP over the rifle, they would see use with units you plan to stick on a home objective and never move, as the mild increase in range and AP would be worth it for specific roles.

Otherwise they'll never put out enough shots to be worth it compared to rifles, since now that eliminators are here, making them true sniper rifles won't happen.

[Dracos]

We can’t up the strength or it begins to make heavy bolter weapons passé, upping the damage means a master crafted weapon would do 3 damage, range beyond 36” means it surpasses a sniper rifle.

 

Another option GW could go if they’ve paid attention to the competitive environment would be to make the assault and heavy versions Cheaper than the rapid-fire version of the bolt rifle.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone arguing they were anything but less effective for the points, so make them cost less. They might see more play as dedicated to either the backfield of forward positions being cheap compared to infiltrators. They still serve a narrative purpose and no rule changes would be necessary.

 

Not everything needs a buff, just pointed properly for what it does.

[Son of Sacrifice]

They (stalker and auto) were an unnecessary option, not really requiring separate rules from the beginning IMO. The difference should only be aesthetic.

[Lemondish]

We can’t up the strength or it begins to make heavy bolter weapons passé, upping the damage means a master crafted weapon would do 3 damage, range beyond 36” means it surpasses a sniper rifle.

 

Another option GW could go if they’ve paid attention to the competitive environment would be to make the assault and heavy versions Cheaper than the rapid-fire version of the bolt rifle.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone arguing they were anything but less effective for the points, so make them cost less. They might see more play as dedicated to either the backfield of forward positions being cheap compared to infiltrators. They still serve a narrative purpose and no rule changes would be necessary.

 

Not everything needs a buff, just pointed properly for what it does.

The thing about Primaris is that they don't have any heavy bolters.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Except on that one teased ironfather and on repulsors. But yeah, somewhat besides the point being made.