jgascoine011 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I had my 1st game today with death guard and my 1st game of 8th edition. I made a lot of mistakes and forgot a lot of rules but had a really fun time with them and my opponents were extremely nice and helpful. Game was 2k vs blood angles and death watch. Anyway this is just my thoughts on the death guard. 1st off, the deathguard special rules. I know this is probably going to be controversial but honestly, i think these are terrible. More specifically, the only real special rule is inexorable advance which is really just garbage, especially with the new better bolter discipline. It really only effects terminators with reaper auto cannons (who takes those?), hellbrutes and plasma guns. Yes it could help with your blight launchers but how often do you really need to advance with them? Now i know these help leviathans etc but I am talking about the death guard codex only. Personally i think it should be changed to giving hellbrutes a 5+++ and a re-roll on disgusting resilience rolls, however we can never advance. Khorne are more choppy so should death guard not be more survivable but slow? And no, i do not think it should affect leviathans or other FW units. The HQs The daemon prince is just so good. With re-rolls to plague weapons and 1s to hit along with being a beast in combat he is just such a versatile unit. He took out a 5 man unit of thunder hammer terminators and some deathwatch HQ guy. I did realise however that i cast blades of putrification on him which would not give him mortal wounds on a 7+ because he does not have a plague weapon :( Typhus is a very interesting guy. His buffs to pox walkers is great and being a psyker is very nice. He is also such a tank, taking out mephiston in combat. However his aura and warlord trait suck. I really want to make him my warlord but i just cant justify it to myelf. The daemon prince is just so much more versatile. If you are not taking poxwalkers then there is really no use to him over a plaguecaster. Again, i would possibly like to see his WL trait being changed to having a 4+++ DG rolls for infantry within 7". This would make a infantry heavy list far more viable but also be a contender against weather to be more offensive with re-roll to wound for plague weapons or be more defensive/tanky. Malagant plaguecaster Just a great unit, doing mortal wounds if you cast on a 7+ is great, buff your units, reasonably tanky and ok in CC. They are just an all round a very nice unit. Troops Pox walkers. Yea these are just good, They do what you expect them to do. I had one unit of 20 and they took the charge from some sanguinary guard, tied down like 3 HQs and were just a great meatshield. My terrible rolling meant i didnt kill a single model with them, even with blades of purification (still didnt realise they dont do mortal wounds but made no difference as with around 40 attacks I rolled zero 6s to wound). Still these are great body guards for characters. Plague marines. I am torn on these. I took 2 units of 7 both in rhinos. 1 unit stayed the whole game in its rhino. They other unit managed to use its blight bombardment stratagem with a biogious putrifier and did a grand total of 1 wound...yea my rolling was not great. However there are just too many things that do multi wounds, or put out so much damage that a 5+++ on such an expensive model is not that great. They dont do much damage and i can get almost 3 pox walkers for every plague marine, which are better at being tarpits. They can take blight launchers and throw blight grenades so they are still useful. Elites Blight Lord terminators I took 7 of these with combi bolters and bubonic axes. I know this is not the optimum loadout and yes combi-plasma would be better. However this would be such an expensive unit and near impossible to make its points back. I wish these guys could take 2 heavy weapons in a 7 man squad. Hellbrute The absolue star of the game It had a twin heavybolter (doing absolute nothing) and power scourge. It killed a 10 man tac squad (taking 6 wounds from a over watching multi-melta) and with 2 wounds left went on to tank the shots from a leviathan, punch dante in the face, kill some blood angles banner guy, before blowing up killing another character, putting 2 wounds on memphiston and then kill the bigious putrfier which also blew up and put another wound on memphiston. Loved the hellbrute, he is cheap and no one things he is a threat and so dont target him. Fast Attack Bloat Drone Probably the most disappointing unit in the game. Yes it took a lot of firepower but 2 of them could not even manage to kill 1 scout unit. My opponents feared them but i think afterwards realised that they didnt do a lot, esp for the points cost. They are however one of the best distraction units and can be very good at harassing and tying down shooty units. Heavy Support Plague crawler These are probably the most balanced unit for their points. 2 of them managed to kill a rhino and dent the leviathan. BS4+ hurts These are just my thoughts, Dont get me wrong i absolutely loved the deathguard play style and have no interest in playing a OP powerhose codex. It can just be frustrating to be somewhat shoe horned into playing a certain way in order to be somewhat competitve. Tabling an opponent is not much fun, being tabled is not fun either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I agree with most of your statement tbh. I think DG is pretty mediocre codex when taken alone, and becomes a decent-good army when you start using allies. I can give you a short analysis based on my experience and the things I saw from other DG players. DP = good Remember that he doesn't have plague weapons, just the talons. He is very good anyway, expecially if you make him your warlord, give him arch-contaminator, wings, double talon and the suppurating plate. He becomes a beast + can cast a power. OTHER HQ = mediocre I use them only on low points game. I started using Nurgle daemons HQs and holy moly are they stronger than ours. MARINES = mediocre/bad They are in a really weird spot. I usually always take one squad with 2 launchers and 1 plasma just to use the granades and sit on an obj. I would not base my list on them, since we have better troops. They are awesome models tho. POX = bad I say bad only because we have THE best troop in the game if we ally with the daemons, see below. DRONES = good Arm them with spitters, put the DP warlord with them and they suddenly melt infantry. They can also fly and tie up enemy units in combat PBC = good Imo the best unit in the codex, after the DP. Arm them with spitters and just charge them at the enemy. Remember to keep the Prince near for the rerolls. Also they combo REALLY well with Poxbringers (see below) TERMY = unsure I'm still testing them. Some people have had very good results with them (usually you build them all bolters + flail + launchers). Up untill now I have had mediocre results with them, just because they are very slow and rarely make it into combat. They are a very good distraction unit tho. HELLBRUTE = bad Imo he's not worth the points unless you spam them. Without invu and DR he really dies from everything. ALLIES: I only talk about Nurgle daemons because that's what I have tested. I also don't like mixing too much stuff and I feel DG + Nurgle daemons is very fluffy and nice to see on the field. POXBRINGER = very good Insanely good HQ. Cheap, casts smite, Nurgle psychic powers are very very good, gives +1 STR to daemons within 6" (hello STR 9 flamers from PBC) and every 6 to wound you do adds 1 wound. (works with daemon prince and PBC) DP = good As our DP, but has better powers and can take a very strong relic sword PLAGUEBEARERS = god-tier unit This is why poxwalkers are bad imo. This unit does what they do, but 100 times better and for only 1 point per model more. Try them yourself. You will see how strong they are. NURGLINGS = good Cheap and hard to kill, can scout and hold objectives, you can easly have a 500 points batallion with 2 poxes, 30 bearers and 6 nurglings Talking about the rest. Our stratagem are pretty :cuss, exept 3/4. I regularly use, VOTLW, cloud of flies, sometimes the one that lets a vehicle explode and blight bombardment. That's it lol. You are right saying that our legion trait is pretty meh. Basically only worth for blightlauncher marines and FW dreadnoughts. Overall I like our army, but mainly because of the aestethics of the models. If you play pure DG, imo you are missing out on a LOT of stuff. Start allying daemons and you'ìll see a bit more combos and synergies. Be carefull tho, because the risk is that you will start allying so many things that your army will not be DG anymore. This is what you see in tournaments sadly. I hope you will have a wonderful time playing this army, the playstyle is very interesting and need some time to get used to, but in friendly games it's a lot of fun simply because you rarely get tabled since your army is so resilient. Hope this helped :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5341717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 What zombs said is very accurate, but how are you getting Str 9 on pbc? They start at 7 and degrade down to 5. The loci just adds 1 right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5341756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 What zombs said is very accurate, but how are you getting Str 9 on pbc? They start at 7 and degrade down to 5. The loci just adds 1 right? My bad there... I got confused with the Toughness ahah. STR 8 with the herald nearby as you say! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5341838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Inexoriable advance took a hit but its still way better than bolter discipline because it lets you move which fits the Death Guard fluff of being slow but inevitable. You just need two start taking at least 20 plague marines before you notice it. If your opponent is throwing sanguinary guard at pox walkers he shouldn't be used to judge what's 'good'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5342196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgascoine011 Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 Inexoriable advance took a hit but its still way better than bolter discipline because it lets you move which fits the Death Guard fluff of being slow but inevitable. You just need two start taking at least 20 plague marines before you notice it. If your opponent is throwing sanguinary guard at pox walkers he shouldn't be used to judge what's 'good'. Bolter discipline is better If you are within 24" you can shoot twice, or move and either be within 18" and shoot twice or greater than 18" away and shoot only once. Basically there is very few scenarios where bolter discipline would be less usefull than inexoriable advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5342765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgascoine011 Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 @Zombs Yes i see what you mean. Really the DG seem to be a better allied detachment as our troops choices suck. For example, if you are taking cultists its probably better to run with iron warriors to make the stubborn, then ally in 3 plagueburst crawlers or something like that. But i want to run a pure DG army so trying to work with what i have got. There are just so many things that drive me nuts with DG. For example, the blight drones being forced to take the plague probe, its basically 50pts wasted. Also so many of the characters could be combined into one. The putrfier and blight spawn for example. I am really liking the hellbrute. I know they are not competitve but i find so many people think of them as being bad and so dont target it, especially with my loadout of twin heavy bolter. I still think it should have DR but then so does everybody else lol Pox walkers are so infuriating. They are cheap, but as soon as you are taking them you may aswell take typhus who is just not that good, or rather if you are taking typhus and a daemon prince then that is a lot of points in HQs. Termys would be fine of they could take 2 special weapons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5342772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Legionnaire Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Blightlords can take 2 heavy weapons... just start playing wit units of 10! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5344523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Inexoriable advance took a hit but its still way better than bolter discipline because it lets you move which fits the Death Guard fluff of being slow but inevitable. You just need two start taking at least 20 plague marines before you notice it. If your opponent is throwing sanguinary guard at pox walkers he shouldn't be used to judge what's 'good'. Bolter discipline is better If you are within 24" you can shoot twice, or move and either be within 18" and shoot twice or greater than 18" away and shoot only once. Basically there is very few scenarios where bolter discipline would be less usefull than inexoriable advance. You're describing the combination of inexorable advance and then saying bolter discipline is better? I had a tournament last weekend with my black legion where bolter discipline was almost useless. 24" range is a joke against a real gunline. A space marine unit can't survive a turn sitting around at 24", you can't win tournament games without moving or you're hiding out of line of sight anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5344840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgascoine011 Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 Had my 2nd game yesterday vs ad mech I had very little idea as to what they do. He had some big robots which put out a lot of S6 AP-2 shots which did MW on 6s to wound, with 42" range....ouch Then i think 6 guys with S7 AP-2 D3 snipers The FW drill termite with some electro dudes inside Lots of guard chaff units And skrall Basically his snipers nullified my characters, meaning they had to be out of Line of Site. His chaff prevented deep strike and his robots killed a lot, and i could not really get to them It was also my 1st game using the maelstrom missions. We rolled for one where you have to say how many points you will score before drawing your cards, and if you got that many points then you scored them in addition to normal scoring, but if you failed then your opponent would get those points. So 1 get 1st turn and say i could get 2 points. And pick 4 cards, getting secure objective 1 (back of opponents deployment zone), defend objective 3 (also way back in opponents deployment zone), get 1 unit into enemy deployment zone (24" distance to cross with my fastest unit being 18" if i roll a 6 on advance), and have all my units out of my deployment zone....so just a awesome draw...i did get 1st blood though. So what did i learn: Poxwakers do what i expect them to do which is die, and preferably die slowly. Are they good? No, but I dont expect them to be good. I just want them to take the charge from an enemy unit and not die straight away. Terminators All terminators need a rule to allow them to deepstrike within say 3" of the enemy but can not charge that turn. Right now they are just so slow. You deepstrike down 9" away, shoot at a unit then spend the rest of the game plodding along, unable to ever really get into an acceptable charge range with them. Blight Drones Really disappointing with these guys again 2 of them killed 6 guardsmen before being shot of the table. But really, its their guns that suck. The spitters need more range, and better AP BPC The only unit to actually perform Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356939-1st-game-with-death-guard/#findComment-5344919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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